No, not all ranchers using BLM lands are "welfare" ranchers.
BLM, Forest Service and Nevada Ranchers
- Thread starter Grizzley
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No, not all ranchers using BLM lands are "welfare" ranchers.
JoseCuervo
New member
Well then, In your world view, which ranchers using BLM lands are Welfare Ranchers?
If they ain't paying the costs of the program's administration, then they are the benefit of welfare.
How much does it cost to grow grass that is already growing?
Are you saying Randy should pay a percentage of his revenue from his TV show over to the Federal Government instead of a relatively small permit fee?
JoseCuervo
New member
You didn't answer. Which ones do you consider to be Welfare Ranchers?
You mean the cheet grass that was introduced?
Or do you mean the riparian areas destroyed by cattle?
You mean the cheet grass that was introduced?
Or do you mean the riparian areas destroyed by cattle?
I'm not sure for what purpose/cause I have paid $98,000 for over the last six years. I have paid it as part of the benefit a commercial operation, albeit an unprofitable operation, derives from the use of these public resources. The USFS and BLM would have to explain the exact values provided for the fees that are charged; maybe access, maybe impacts, maybe .....
Whatever the purpose of the payment, if I had public land grazing permits could have grazed 1,000 cow-calf pairs every day of those six (6) years and paid that same amount.
Dang, I wish you had not brought that up. It was already a sore spot with me. Now, thinking about those who don't pay for their use of public lands, especially someone whose operation has thousands times more impact than my little three man operation, it ticks me off even more.
There could be a silver lining to this cause of my angst. Does my payment for use of these public lands for the last six years give me some sort of property rights? My family has been logging and mining on public lands since Gramps came over from Sweden in 1904.
Under the Bundy theory, it seems I should have some vest rights by now that would exempt me from payment for use of public resources, Yes?
Cheat grass wasn't planted on purpose by ranchers.
What percentage of BLM land that is grazed has cheat grass?
You didn't answer my questions.
Is Randy a welfare business because he pays below market rates to film?
I don't think so, but you do using your criteria.
Randy, you could still access the land with your camera and party. You just couldn't put it on TV. I think I have that right, but please correct me if I am wrong.
I have already said Bundy should pay. My first post in this thread was to Jose because he basically called every rancher that uses BLM land a welfare rancher.
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shoots-straight
Well-known member
Ufdah!, Sorry Randy, I'm going to get the boys together, and we'z going to surround your place and hold them gubermint boz off. You quit paying that fee, and film away the hills is yourn to do whatz the heck youz wants wit em. We gots yourz back side if youk known what wez a meaing.
Ufdah!, Sorry Randy, I'm going to get the boys together, and we'z going to surround your place and hold them gubermint boz off. You quit paying that fee, and film away the hills is yourn to do whatz the heck youz wants wit em. We gots yourz back side if youk known what wez a meaing.
Who in this thread said Bundy or Randy shouldn't pay?
Do you always make posts with no basis in fact?
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Is this not coming out to FMV?
"The Federal grazing fee, which applies to Federal lands in 16 Western states on public lands managed by the BLM and the U.S. Forest Service, is adjusted annually and is calculated by using a formula originally set by Congress in the Public Rangelands Improvement Act of 1978. Under this formula, as modified and extended by a presidential Executive Order issued in 1986, the grazing fee cannot fall below $1.35 per animal unit month (AUM); also, any fee increase or decrease cannot exceed 25 percent of the previous year’s level. (An AUM is the amount of forage needed to sustain one cow and her calf, one horse, or five sheep or goats for a month.) The grazing fee for 2014 is $1.35 per AUM, the same level as it was in 2013.
The Federal grazing fee is computed by using a 1966 base value of $1.23 per AUM for livestock grazing on public lands in Western states. The figure is then adjusted each year according to three factors – current private grazing land lease rates, beef cattle prices, and the cost of livestock production. In effect, the fee rises, falls, or stays the same based on market conditions, with livestock operators paying more when conditions are better and less when conditions have declined."
http://www.blm.gov/wo/st/en/prog/grazing.html
"The Federal grazing fee, which applies to Federal lands in 16 Western states on public lands managed by the BLM and the U.S. Forest Service, is adjusted annually and is calculated by using a formula originally set by Congress in the Public Rangelands Improvement Act of 1978. Under this formula, as modified and extended by a presidential Executive Order issued in 1986, the grazing fee cannot fall below $1.35 per animal unit month (AUM); also, any fee increase or decrease cannot exceed 25 percent of the previous year’s level. (An AUM is the amount of forage needed to sustain one cow and her calf, one horse, or five sheep or goats for a month.) The grazing fee for 2014 is $1.35 per AUM, the same level as it was in 2013.
The Federal grazing fee is computed by using a 1966 base value of $1.23 per AUM for livestock grazing on public lands in Western states. The figure is then adjusted each year according to three factors – current private grazing land lease rates, beef cattle prices, and the cost of livestock production. In effect, the fee rises, falls, or stays the same based on market conditions, with livestock operators paying more when conditions are better and less when conditions have declined."
http://www.blm.gov/wo/st/en/prog/grazing.html
JoseCuervo
New member
Please tell us cattle prices in 2013.
please tell us current cattle prices in 2014.
Please tell us how much grazing fees went up, based on your formula.
JoseCuervo
New member
And any cowboy that wants can drive his 1-ton Dodge with flatbed and gooseneck trailer on BLM roads with free access, as long as he doesn't let the cows out for commercial operation.
I don't know what the FMV of grazing land is out West.
Cattle have been high for less than one year. When was the last time they were this high?
That's not my formula. That's the BLM's formula set by law.
Is the BLM grazing fee below FMV and by what percentage?
JoseCuervo
New member
You are in these threads arguing in support of Bundy and Welfare Ranchers, and you don't even know the way the system works?
We have a saying out here about people like you...
"This might be your first rodeo"
Hopefully you are getting educated and your eyes opened.
sweetnectar
New member
Had to see if this thread made post 400 yet....come on.
Also, I wanted to thank everyone that doesn't hunt that supports hunters via the taxes they pay....and for providing government lands and managment agencies to take care of the land so that I can hunt on them.
Your greatful friend,
A welfare hunter.
Also, I wanted to thank everyone that doesn't hunt that supports hunters via the taxes they pay....and for providing government lands and managment agencies to take care of the land so that I can hunt on them.
Your greatful friend,
A welfare hunter.
RobG
Well-known member
We haven't even touched on the wild horse side story to this insanity. Should we cause their death by beating or other means for the welfare ranching community? Thanks for bringing it up.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money...ing-between-ranchers-mustang-backers/7380255/
Zach
Well-known member
Post #400, Do I win anything?
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