spook12
New member
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Black bear hunting with in Montana-- HB 144
- Thread starter houndy65
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The Hedgehog
Well-known member
It's not "unethical". However, we don't have quotas in most areas, and have a spring and fall season that amounts to damn near 5 months of bear hunting. We can easily kill plenty of bears to fill the quota units.
A fact is.. you dont' NEED to chase bears with dogs to kill them. In MT, you almost NEED dogs to make a dent in cat populations.
For me and more than 90% of the other bear hunters out there in the SPRING that wouldn't use dogs, it WOULD SUCK to have a bunch of dogs run across the mountain you've been glassing for years and watching the bears from year to year.
Same goes for bait..
A fact is.. you dont' NEED to chase bears with dogs to kill them. In MT, you almost NEED dogs to make a dent in cat populations.
For me and more than 90% of the other bear hunters out there in the SPRING that wouldn't use dogs, it WOULD SUCK to have a bunch of dogs run across the mountain you've been glassing for years and watching the bears from year to year.
Same goes for bait..
Wow, just signed up as a member and this is what I find. Hunters apposing a bill that introduces another form of hunting. The last post stating that we don't need hound hunting in MT for bears. I guess we don't need AR-15's either nor do we need 30 round clips. If you listen to yourselves, you guys don't sound much different than than the anti gun liberals out there with their narrow minds and open mouths. Let's keep a once treasured tradition in the great state of Montanna banned because we don't need it. That's what you're saying. Let's make sure we keep that freedom away from hound hunters is what I'm picking up here.
Fair chase? Seriously? So spending hundreds of hours and years of training a hound before he has the confidence and ability to successfully persue and catch a bear isn't fair? But spending many hours scouting many miles of terrain looking for bear's spring forage and using a stalking method which you've learned over the years to harvest a bear is? Is it really fair that you use a rifle with open sights or a scope or even a muzzleloader that shoots a projectile towards the intended game at over a hundred yards fair? How can you say anything about fair. The way we hunt and the way we harvest game isn't fair at all. We will always have the advantage no matter what you say on our methods of harvest.
It is irritating to have those hounds running through elk camp looking for a free meal. It is very disappointing to stalk a herd of elk all day during archery season and be disrupted by hounds hollering through the canyon. It sucks. We are entitled to our opinions, but to simply vote against a freedom that was once taken away is a hypocracy of yourselves. You fellas might as well move to New York or one of the big cities because your mentality is no different than the city slickers out there who want to change our laws so we live the way they believe we should.
Fair chase? Seriously? So spending hundreds of hours and years of training a hound before he has the confidence and ability to successfully persue and catch a bear isn't fair? But spending many hours scouting many miles of terrain looking for bear's spring forage and using a stalking method which you've learned over the years to harvest a bear is? Is it really fair that you use a rifle with open sights or a scope or even a muzzleloader that shoots a projectile towards the intended game at over a hundred yards fair? How can you say anything about fair. The way we hunt and the way we harvest game isn't fair at all. We will always have the advantage no matter what you say on our methods of harvest.
It is irritating to have those hounds running through elk camp looking for a free meal. It is very disappointing to stalk a herd of elk all day during archery season and be disrupted by hounds hollering through the canyon. It sucks. We are entitled to our opinions, but to simply vote against a freedom that was once taken away is a hypocracy of yourselves. You fellas might as well move to New York or one of the big cities because your mentality is no different than the city slickers out there who want to change our laws so we live the way they believe we should.
GFHunter
Member
Welcom Nater. We are entitled to our opinion, unless it is different than yours? Interesting.
Sorry, I won't be making the move east, but you do sound smart.
The Hedgehog
Well-known member
nater77, How is hound hunting for bears " a once treasured tradition"? I love how hound guys think it's impressively awesome to arrow something out of a tree? I mean come on.. what difference does it make shooting an arrow or a bullet when the fugger's in the tree?
Bottom line is it's not gonna fly in MT... count the for/against in this thread. If I were a betting man, I'd say you run cats in MT and are probably an outfitter licking his chops and some new spring income.
Bottom line is it's not gonna fly in MT... count the for/against in this thread. If I were a betting man, I'd say you run cats in MT and are probably an outfitter licking his chops and some new spring income.
As a person who comes from a household where bear baiting was my father's greatest passion in life, I am able to understand other perspectives to the bear hunting argument. I might have been one of those people you could have convinced and shown a different perspective.
But, with an opening post displaying that much arrogance, disdain for the right of others to have an opinion, and inability to distinguish a freedom from a privilege, you have just lost any chance of converting me.
Count me officially lobbying against that bear chasing bill. Even more, you have now converted me to the camp that wants to shoot the hell out of cats, so we can stop feeding them so damn many deer at the demands of a small handful of trophy cat hunters within the cadre of good guy houndsmen who want their name in a record book.
Keep digging. Won't be long and the hole will be over your head. I'd offer you a bigger shovel, but I suspect your attitude towards others will more than suffice.
You guys can say all the negative remarks you want. I've also been spoken to in a similar fashion in forums the Human Society has up. You don't sound any different. Know this. Since you openly choose to oppose this form hunting the Humane society and animal rights liberals have won without even lifting a finger on this one. Then when they're finished with the hound hunting they will be banning binoculars, spotting scopes, scopes on rifles, then rifles, then compound bows until "all forms of hunting are not allowed" as Wayne Pacelle said. He's the president of the HSUS. I've been watching what the HSUS has been doing with this country so I will continue to support all methods of persuit and harvesting of game even though you don't hold the same attitude on one particular form.
Nater77 : are you an outfitter or dog breeder or both? How many bear would be taken with hounds annually would you guess? Personal opinion is fine as I'm sure there is nothing else to base a number on.
Just because running bear with hounds is another form of hunting sure as hell don't make it something that requires mandatory support. Last I knew the bear population in Montana was doing quite well and the spot and stock method has kept the balance quite effectively.
With your arrogant attitude I would nominate you for an azz hat.
Just because running bear with hounds is another form of hunting sure as hell don't make it something that requires mandatory support. Last I knew the bear population in Montana was doing quite well and the spot and stock method has kept the balance quite effectively.
With your arrogant attitude I would nominate you for an azz hat.
No one here "openly choose to oppose this form of hunting." Go read, and no one posted that they are against the form of hunting that includes chasing with hounds, they just don't think hound hunting should come at the expense of other existing hunting seasons that have been going on for decades.
Know this ..... funny.
Anyhow, know this ...... You lost this issue without even lifting a finger, rather by coming across the way you have. Your ability to communicate in a way that could garner support needs some improvement, at least in this instance.
I have a lot of friends who own hounds. They are all good guys, super committed to their dogs. Yet, there seems to be a vocal few within the houndsmen community that thinks the woods and hills belong primarily to them and all other hunting activities are supposed to accommodate the desires of this vocal group. That group of loudmouths is the minority of the houndsmen, but their disproportionate influence on topics does no favors to the bigger topic of hound hunting in Montana.
If history is any indicator in other western states, houndsmen need all the support they can get from the larger hunting community to protect their seasons. Coming to other hunters and going out of your way to tick them off is not beneficial to the long-term interest of your cause.
But, given we know so little and you know so much, I am probably wasting my effort to type this.
Know this ........
I would have been open to allowing for the chase of bears with dogs after the spring rifle seasons closes, thinking it is about getting some work for the dogs. But, if the people pushing this bill are of a similar self-righteous demeanor, you have helped me decide that now I probably wouldn't even support that.
shoots-straight
Well-known member
Did someone bring a baiting bill up for consideration?
shoots-straight
Well-known member
Remember when I posted this statement?
"Know this" probably just signed up to show support for a hound chase season and support houndy in his endeavor here.
It would have been better if he introduced himself first before calling the owner of the site out.:W:
I've been watching this thread since shortly after it's been created and I am in shock by the responses on here. My first thought is how many of these people opposing the hunting of bears with hounds are transplants into Montana from another state and are now trying to Californize this state. I think the entire issue is simple with the opposition challenging every portion of hunting: dogs, archery, trapping; why would you not try to push the bar into the anti's direction to make them play defense? I know a few of you have made arbitrary claims on the impacts of black bear hunting in the state and the impact this will have on grizzlies, I have researched this issue and also spoken with a biologist in a state that does allow hound hunting for black bears and with grizzly bear and all of my research & discussions, I would not expect a major problem. There is definitely room for a compromise in different group's hunting opportunities and outdoor enjoyments, this bill allows for the use of dogs in hunting bears, nowhere in the bill does it mandate the use of dogs or any season set. I know for myself duck and goose hunters can be an inconvenience when I'm trying to fish but it's their right to enjoy the outdoors as much as it is mine. So I've said my peace on this issue, I don't think it's fair to try and demonize one hunting group so that you have a bigger share of the pie for yourself. Also I know many houndsman/woman that are very well educated and articulate well.
The Hedgehog
Well-known member
First off -- 4th generation Montanas who's been hunting here for 30 years, and have used dogs myself.
Secondly, I appreciate this thread and all the email addresses listed in the initial post.
Hounds during the spring for bears, much less the fall. Screw that!
Secondly, I appreciate this thread and all the email addresses listed in the initial post.
Hounds during the spring for bears, much less the fall. Screw that!
jryoung
Well-known member
As a hunter in both MT and CA...you arent even close to being "Californized".
shoots-straight
Well-known member
Simpleman, I didn't see the demonizing of hounds that your talking about. I think we all agree that there's a place for hounds.
Looks like that place will be lion hunting.
Looks like that place will be lion hunting.
Shoots-straight I'm sure you are right and I would not be surprised to see the lion hunting be attacked in the future also. But somewhere along this thread there was someone mentioning unethical to hound hunting.
Greenhorn: I think you've made your point on where you stand on this bill, I believe every page on this thread I think you have made a point to say you oppose the bill and you're glad the names were listed.
JRYoung I've also hunted in different states and Montana is more restrictive than other states.
Greenhorn: I think you've made your point on where you stand on this bill, I believe every page on this thread I think you have made a point to say you oppose the bill and you're glad the names were listed.
JRYoung I've also hunted in different states and Montana is more restrictive than other states.
drahthaar
Active member
You know, a lot of how you houndsmen have portrayed yourselves on here with this is really pissing people off. Any one of you could have come on, explained your position, maybe offered some alternatives, such as a season after June 1, for a month of chasing and fun for yourselves. It seems to work in BC, where there are griz and such. But none of you tried to explain anything. You just threw it in our faces and then one of you pitched a fit like a little bitch when you didn't hear what you wanted. Compared people to bunny hugging liberals? Really? Who is demonizing who? This the most informed bunch on the net. Many, many guys on here spend an ungodly amount of time watching the legislature and fighting for your asses as hunters, period. There are a few houndsmen that frequent this site, and they are very respectful, one is a great friend of mine, a top shelf guy, and a top flight houndsman, and I would like for him to be able to run his hounds. But for the most part, the majority on here are just into a traditional hunt, many look forward to getting out in the spring, shed hunting, and bear hunting. Its a great time of year. Many of us have some super spots, slam dunks for seeing bears, and don't want that boat rocked. My best spot would be phugged, sure as heck, if this is allowed throughout our normal spring season. After the season, personally, it wouldn't hurt my feelings to see this crap pile of bears we have here in R1 put on the run and chased up the mtn, off calving and fawning grounds, because I think we incur heavy losses of fawns and calves to bears.
And you know what else? I went to a few hounding boards and read what you guys are doing. Maybe get a different perspective on this. You have MT SFW guys speaking for you in Helena? That churns my guts. And then a pile of you houndsmen are clueless to what the SFW is!!! I guaran-freekin-tee you, if the MT SFW is for something, I am diametrically opposed to it, because in the end, those bastards are gonna turn around and screw all the average joes in this state, just to satisfy the mothership. Align yourselves with the SFW? FOOLS!
And you know what else? I went to a few hounding boards and read what you guys are doing. Maybe get a different perspective on this. You have MT SFW guys speaking for you in Helena? That churns my guts. And then a pile of you houndsmen are clueless to what the SFW is!!! I guaran-freekin-tee you, if the MT SFW is for something, I am diametrically opposed to it, because in the end, those bastards are gonna turn around and screw all the average joes in this state, just to satisfy the mothership. Align yourselves with the SFW? FOOLS!
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Straight Arrow, I'm from the North East. I don't currently own any hounds. I've never bear hunted with hounds either. I will tell you that some of my earliest memories are of riding on my dads shoulders coon hunting with our Walker hounds. Hunting with dogs is something that is near and dear to the hearts of some people. Its also deeply ingrained in the culture of certain areas.
I've seen several cases on this forum where people have openly bashed hunting with hounds or dogs. Probably most recent would be the fellow who was posting pics of his southern deer hunts. Another time when deer hunting with dogs was the topic, a fellow from Montana suggested dogs should be shot if they crossed a property line. Really? In certain parts of this country that would be like killing a family member.
I think everyone here has to remember that this isn't strictly a Montana site. Your comments and opinions are viewed world wide. Montana, and its traditions should be respected like everyone elses I suppose.
