Bill allowing crossbows during MT archery

[BrentD]

https://ravincrossbows.com/




I think this is better accuracy than achievable with smoothbore shotguns or even traditional muzzleloaders.

Surely you jest with respect to traditional muzzleloaders. I guarantee they will more than hold their own in that regard.

I find it interesting that people here think crossbows will "redefine" archery. Did you think that about compound bows? Archery "redefined" 30-40 yrs ago or more.

 

[Bambistew]

I couldn't care less one way or the other on this... but can't you use a crossbow in WY during archery season? Did the sky fall there?

 

[Sytes]

Outside the scope of Disabled and over 70 y/o, and, from my perspective upon Ben's information I would rather this find a fair discussion for our fwp commission, here is a straight comparison by editors of Field and Stream;

https://www.fieldandstream.com/arti...fresh-look-at-the-crossbow-vs-compound-debate

Based on observed facts - as shared by their direct experience and info gathered.


Edit added: very true! Perspective changes w/in the hands of those who want what fits their personal desire. World of a difference between compound bows and a longbow / recurve.

I find it interesting that people here think crossbows will "redefine" archery. Did you think that about compound bows? Archery "redefined" 30-40 yrs ago or more.

 

[RobG]

Surely you jest with respect to traditional muzzleloaders. I guarantee they will more than hold their own in that regard.

I find it interesting that people here think crossbows will "redefine" archery. Did you think that about compound bows? Archery "redefined" 30-40 yrs ago or more.

My experience with flintlocks is that they take a lot of practice to shoot because of the delay and even then it is dicey whether they will fire after pulling the trigger. Now if you throw a scope on a percussion gun and shoot sabots things get better, but those aren't even legal muzzle loaders in some season if memory serves.

 

[PrairieHunter]

Those who say there are no statistics need to go do their research.

So there is one example of a state seeing a difference.

We still have 2 states Ohio and Nebraska who have extended archery season since allowing crossbows. And Wyoming next door has not had an issue over many years.

The evidence is still overwhelmingly shows that the sky is not falling in the 25 other states that allow crossbows during archery season.

If you have other examples feel free to show them.

 

[RobG]

I couldn't care less one way or the other on this... but can't you use a crossbow in WY during archery season? Did the sky fall there?

Given the similar performance and ease of use the sky probably wouldn't fall if they allowed smooth bore shotguns and muzzleloaders during the archery season. Most of the harvest is done during rifle season, but that doesn't make it right to increase harvest in another season, especially of prime bulls. Crossbow technology has a lot of room to grow and at some point something has to give.

 

[BrentD]

$2000 is nothing for the nonresidents coming out here for a chance to kill a huge bull in the rut. And as technology and popularity increases that performance will be available at much lower prices.

There seems to be an assumption by many here, that nonresidents have endless supplies of money, or at least should have endless supplies of money, if they wish to hunt out of state. $2k is not chump change to anyone I hunt with. For a lot of folks, $2000 weapons would preclude the hunt if it was required equipment.

 

[Mallardsx2]

I just wonder if the people of Colorado would object to crossbows being put into their sacred OTC ELK archery season?

If crossbows are not a big deal then why not add them there as well? right? I mean there isnt statistical data showing that it hurts the deer herd then why would it hurt the Elk herd?

I mean after all, Wyoming didnt have a problem with it....lol


There are 6 types of people who want crossbows legalized for archery seasons.

-People with legitimate disabilities (Emphasis on legitimate, and I am 100% OK with people with legitimate disabilities using crossbows)
-People that sell crossbows
-People that dont bow hunt, that want to hunt the archery season
-People that want to bow hunt but cant because they are not willing to practice
-People that need instant gratification
-People that currently use them in states where it is legal.

Adding crossbows is just a socialist outlook to archery hunting.

" I'm not willing to work for it, but I want it anyways " mentality.

 

[Nameless Range]

BHA says that, "If this bill is signed into law, it’s not a question of if the requirements of crossbow users will change, but when".

That may be true, and if true would be a very powerful argument against this bill. I was wondering what examples are out there of other states first introducing crossbows for the disabled and then transitioning into allowing them on a widespread basis?

I'm on the fence on this issue. Thanks.

 

[Mallardsx2]

Nameless Range,

See my example on PA. Thats EXACTLY what happened there.......

 

[Nameless Range]

Nameless Range,

See my example on PA. Thats EXACTLY what happened there.......

Thank you for those links.

 

[JDH]

Indiana is a good example of a state where the crossbow rules have changed and were blown wide open. I don't remember if there was a disabled requirement prior to the changes but I pulled this from a Field and Stream article: "The new archery season will last from Oct. 1 through the first Sunday in January without the traditional one-week break that separated early and late seasons. The hotly contested crossbow rule will allow hunters who were previously limited to using that equipment only in the late archery season to enjoy the full archery season.
Indiana also published a whitetail harvest summary report for 2017 that I pulled this snip from:

At least here it appears people who were gun hunters have switched to crossbows. It hasn't massively increased overall harvest but the deer have been killed with crossbows in lieu of guns.

I agree with MallardsX2 as to the types of people who want crossbows legalized. I personally know 2 people who only use them in order to extend their season and are too lazy or won't make time to practice.

 

[Mudranger1]

So there is one example of a state seeing a difference.

We still have 2 states Ohio and Nebraska who have extended archery season since allowing crossbows. And Wyoming next door has not had an issue over many years.

The evidence is still overwhelmingly shows that the sky is not falling in the 25 other states that allow crossbows during archery season.

If you have other examples feel free to show them.

His arguement is 1 I find to just be beneficial of what he wants. I just stopped posting as coming from an eastern state I realize there is a major difference in game and game numbers and someone responded to my post with the arguement they didnt want Montana changing to season structure like Colorado and that is something I would firmly stand behind. The articles that I have read about Pa since the crossbow introduction still show an increasing to stable deer population year after year. The age maturity of deer taken has steadily risen with an antler point restriction. My understanding is a hunter can still only shoot 1 buck/year. So you have more deer with an older age class. Sounds hideous. People are just shooting bucks during archery than with a gun. But I digress this is about Montana where 1 day I hope to roam looking for a majestic 2 point buck or spike ell

 

[Estimator86]

What if the crossbow was only allowed to have iron sights? No scopes, no electronic sights just like many western state regulations for compound bows. This would increase the range versus a compound only slightly (if used ethically I suppose).. Thoughts?

 

[WapitiBob]

It really isn't the concern about effect on harvest or even the efficacy of the weapon. As a member of Montana Bowhunters Association, I am aware of the lengthy difficult process MBA went through to establish the current archery only season in Montana. That organization and others are concerned about crossbow and muzzleloader groups piggybacking onto the hard work of MBA and being included, even having separate seasons. We Montana hunters acknowledge that we are spoiled by the advantage of lengthy hunting seasons and are very protective of what we have enjoyed for so long ... but what seems to work. A general fear is that hunting access, seasons structure, and weapon preference rules would follow the trends of Colorado in that Montana would suddenly have Ranching for Wildlife, seasons for crossbows, muzzleloaders, and archery weapons becoming three separate seasons during what is now Archery Only, and thus "choose your weapon". Admittedly that seems self-directed, but it's real and it is a result of much advocacy on behalf of hunting, hunting access, and on behalf of wildlife.

Finally, an opinion that contains substance.

 

[PrairieHunter]

His arguement is 1 I find to just be beneficial of what he wants. I just stopped posting as coming from an eastern state I realize there is a major difference in game and game numbers and someone responded to my post with the arguement they didnt want Montana changing to season structure like Colorado and that is something I would firmly stand behind. The articles that I have read about Pa since the crossbow introduction still show an increasing to stable deer population year after year. The age maturity of deer taken has steadily risen with an antler point restriction. My understanding is a hunter can still only shoot 1 buck/year. So you have more deer with an older age class. Sounds hideous. People are just shooting bucks during archery than with a gun. But I digress this is about Montana where 1 day I hope to roam looking for a majestic 2 point buck or spike ell

True, you can tell who really gets into this type of stuff. In many cases they are not even archery hunters so it has no bearing on their hunt overall but these days people are very opinionated.

It is an example of increased harvest due to crossbows being allowed so there is a valid point there. But as mentioned the overall harvest numbers were not changed so although more deer were harvested with a crossbow much of that increase came at the expense of the gun harvest numbers which is also a good point. If all this does is take some pressure off gun season and spread it out over a several month archery season maybe that's actually a benefit.

The usual comment when crossbows are discussed in Montana is a few claim that the increased harvest will result in a shortened archery season, comes across like a typical scare tactic.

So far not any of the 26 states who allow crossbows have shortened the season that I am aware of, an amazingly 2 have actually lengthened seasons (NE and OH). So at this point that argument does not seem to hold water based on the history of other states who allow crossbows including next door neighbor WY.

But if someone does have an example of crossbows leading to a shortened archery season I'd love to see it.

I personally stopped hunting with my compound about 5 years ago as I don't have time, I only use a rifle or muzzleloader anymore so it has no bearing on me and based on the evidence I have seen I have no issue with crossbows. Had we seen a change in seasons in Wyoming I might feel differently but I can't say I have ever even seen a hunter in the field with a crossbow in Wyoming, Nebraska, or Oklahoma. The only one I heard of this year was the guy who hunted with Mark Uptain (guide who was tragically killed) elk hunting.

Do you guys who archery hunt in WY see a lot of crossbows during archery season?

 

[Deleted member 28227]

What if the crossbow was only allowed to have iron sights? No scopes, no electronic sights just like many western state regulations for compound bows. This would increase the range versus a compound only slightly (if used ethically I suppose).. Thoughts?

You don't have to draw a crossbow, that is a massive advantage when you are on the ground and up close and personal with an animal.

 

[PrairieHunter]

I just wonder if the people of Colorado would object to crossbows being put into their sacred OTC ELK archery season?

If crossbows are not a big deal then why not add them there as well? right? I mean there isnt statistical data showing that it hurts the deer herd then why would it hurt the Elk herd?

I mean after all, Wyoming didnt have a problem with it....lol


There are 6 types of people who want crossbows legalized for archery seasons.

-People with legitimate disabilities (Emphasis on legitimate, and I am 100% OK with people with legitimate disabilities using crossbows)
-People that sell crossbows
-People that dont bow hunt, that want to hunt the archery season
-People that want to bow hunt but cant because they are not willing to practice
-People that need instant gratification
-People that currently use them in states where it is legal.

Adding crossbows is just a socialist outlook to archery hunting.

" I'm not willing to work for it, but I want it anyways " mentality.

It's hilarious watching you try to insult crossbow hunters. I always get a kick out of you no matter if it's the darn county 2 jerks form Wyoming, the horrible hunters of Nebraska, or the "Dutchies" as you call them. Now it's those darn crossbow hunters, keep up the fine work.

What about people who don't archery hunt? Guess you missed that one. Some people who rifle hunt would prefer that more people choose to hunt public land during archery season.

Crossbows = Socialist

Good grief, this just keeps getting better

You are probably not going to like the future as the current 26 states who allow crossbows during archery season is only going to grow. Just a matter of time until more states allow crossbows, cannabis, sports gambling, etc...

Thanks for the entertainment.

BTW did PA shorten the archery season?

 

[Deleted member 28227]

True, you can tell who really gets into this type of stuff. In many cases they are not even archery hunters so it has no bearing on their hunt overall but these days people are very opinionated.

It is an example of increased harvest due to crossbows being allowed so there is a valid point there. But as mentioned the overall harvest numbers were not changed so although more deer were harvested with a crossbow much of that increase came at the expense of the gun harvest numbers which is also a good point. If all this does is take some pressure off gun season and spread it out over a several month archery season maybe that's actually a benefit.

The usual comment when crossbows are discussed in Montana is a few claim that the increased harvest will result in a shortened archery season, comes across like a typical scare tactic.

So far not any of the 26 states who allow crossbows have shortened the season that I am aware of, an amazingly 2 have actually lengthened seasons (NE and OH). So at this point that argument does not seem to hold water based on the history of other states who allow crossbows including next door neighbor WY.

But if someone does have an example of crossbows leading to a shortened archery season I'd love to see it.

I personally stopped hunting with my compound about 5 years ago as I don't have time, I only use a rifle or muzzleloader anymore so it has no bearing on me and based on the evidence I have seen I have no issue with crossbows. Had we seen a change in seasons in Wyoming I might feel differently but I can't say I have ever even seen a hunter in the field with a crossbow in Wyoming, Nebraska, or Oklahoma. The only one I heard of this year was the guy who hunted with Mark Uptain (guide who was tragically killed) elk hunting.

Do you guys who archery hunt in WY see a lot of crossbows during archery season?

I believe WY is the only state that you can use a crossbow to hunt elk during an archery season. You can't compare hunting whitetail in a deer stand to calling in elk on the ground.

Also WY is fairly restrictive in it's tags, please correct me if I'm wrong but a general season NR tag takes 2pts to draw. Fish and Game agencies across the country find it unpalatable to change season lengths due to the blow back they would get, but have no problem cutting tag numbers. I'm not sure if WY has sufficient data, but what you would want to see if there has been a statistically significant harvest increase during archery season since crossbows were allowed. It would be very difficult to isolate that variable as lots of different factors influence herds and harvest numbers.

MT is somewhat insulated from over harvest because of it's cap on NR, CO would be an entirely different animal. For the record I have seen several guys with crossbows in the backcountry with disabled permits, I did not spend a ton of time asking them what their disabilities were, but it did seem a bit strange to me that you could backpack in 6 miles for an elk without horses but couldn't draw a bow.

 

[dcopas78]

At least here it appears people who were gun hunters have switched to crossbows. It hasn't massively increased overall harvest but the deer have been killed with crossbows in lieu of guns.

This is exactly what the harvest from Ohio shows as well. More people are hunting with the crossbow in the 4 month archery season (legal since 1984), and overall archery season participation has increased, but the harvest numbers are consistent. Barring the years when Ohio had an exuberant amount of antlerless tags available.

http://wildlife.ohiodnr.gov/Portals/wildlife/pdfs/publications/hunting/Pub 5304_DeerSummary2018.pdf