Bigger Pie Brainstorm

[bisblue]

I've heard Randy talk about the making the pie bigger in terms of conservation, rather than complaining about increasing usage. Just curious if folks could pick 4 bigger pie ideas to see come true, what would they be?

I'm thinking no unrealistic ones like depopulate the rockies, but something like if the stars aligned this is the legislation I would like to see. I'm assuming this is a western landscape exercise.

 

[Oak]

I'd like to see legislation that would provide grazing permit holders the option to voluntarily waive their permits to graze on Federal lands in exchange for equitable compensation paid by private parties (buyouts). The federal agency would then be directed to retire the associated grazing allotment from further grazing activity.

The map below depicts RM bighorn sheep units in SW Colorado. The number beneath the unit designation is the estimated bighorn population at the beginning of 2020 (numbers are slightly different now). The herd populations total 1,470 bighorn sheep. Currently, about 50,000 domestic sheep are authorized to graze on Federal lands in the same area.

 

[Frenchy]

I'd Like to see Corner Crossing be deemed a legal means of access in every state.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

I'm thinking no unrealistic ones

Depends on your definition of unrealistic...

1. End domestic sheep grazing in the Rockies
2. Carrying capacity, not landowner tolerance herd objectives.
3. Bison classified as a game animal not as livestock, and reintroduced widely
4. Grizzly reintroduction into CO/UT/NM

Obviously Oak's example is the pragmatic approach to number 1, assuredly that's the way these would come to fruition, I'm just cutting to the chase about the goal.

 

[jejack26]

Get CRP program back to where was in 90''s

Legalize corner crossing

Montana State land permit, currently that's automatically added to our license whereas it used to be a separate purchase. Every time I hear an issue of selling state land to fund schools I ask myself where is our $10 going. It appear the economic value of recrational use of state isn't recognized

 

[nrpate05]

Hmm...emphasis on protection of winter range and migration corridors, better planning for recreational trails so they stay out of critical habitat, better regulating non consumptive users, constructing road crossings for ungulates, better access to private land hunts. Just a few that come to mind. I think they are all realistic, at least to some extent, it'll just take some work and plenty of collaboration and honest conversation.

I am also fully in support of reintroducing grizzlies to the southern rockies, especially Colorado.

 

[Dunning Kruger]

Why do you guys want more grizzlies in more places? How does this make the pie bigger? More predation = bigger pie?

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Why do you guys want more grizzlies in more places? How does this make the pie bigger? More predation = bigger pie?

If you killed all the elk/mule deer/pronghorn there would be a ton more habitat for whitetail, which as we have found are super adaptable. So if the whole goal is just more shit for people to shoot then that’s probably your best route. Whitetail can exist at a much higher density that any of those species.

 

[Dunning Kruger]

Okay, now do you have an actual serious answer as to why increasing grizzlys range and numbers would create a bigger pie?

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Okay, now do you have an actual serious answer as to why increasing grizzlys range and numbers would create a bigger pie?

Touché

Honestly I value an intact suite of predators. Grizzlies are omnivores so my assumption is that while they will impact herds it will be less than wolves or lions. I suspect the black bear population would actually take the brunt of the impact.

In terms of the pie, I think it would also reduce human pressure, because they’re big and scary.

 

[Trial153]

State by state reform in regards to LO tags.
Resident License fees increased so that they better reflect cost of resident use.

Cut grazing allotments by 50% across the board. Make the bids competitive.
No sheep grazing on any public land

 

[RobertD]

We're free to be unrealistic, right?

OTC tags for wild horses.

 

[Horse]

State by state reform in regards to LO tags.

AND; a national reform on percentage of resident vs non resident tags; uniform in all states. No resident only species tags. Even if its only a powerball chance, at least everyone has a chance.

 

[Buffs35]

No disturbance or use of public land during calving.

 

[Carnage2011]

We're free to be unrealistic, right?

OTC tags for wild horses.

You win...

 

[Big Sky Guy]

1. Make corner crossing legal nationwide.
2. Carrying capacity, not landowner tolerance herd objectives.
3. Bison classified as a game animal not as livestock, and reintroduced widely
4. End domestic sheep grazing in the Rockies

 

[Dunning Kruger]

We're free to be unrealistic, right?

OTC tags for wild horses.

Feral. Feral horses. Shouldnt even need tags for invasive feral animals.

 

[Dunning Kruger]

Touché

Honestly I value an intact suite of predators. Grizzlies are omnivores so my assumption is that while they will impact herds it will be less than wolves or lions. I suspect the black bear population would actually take the brunt of the impact.

In terms of the pie, I think it would also reduce human pressure, because they’re big and scary.

So in my little corner of the world, our gmu 113 has grizz. That means were not allowed to spring bear hunt there. To protect the grizz from idiots. So them being there makes the pie smaller. Just like now we cant night hunt bobcats in pretty much this entire portion of the state due to the astronomically small chance that a lynx just may be present and come into a call in the dark and be shot. Rare predator shrinks the pie further. And if grizz are killing blackies, our pie got even smaller cause that means less blackies to hunt and i know damn good and well we will never be allowed to hunt grizz. And i think you may be underestimating the grizz potential impact on ungulates. Look qt this. This lion killed 5 deer and 17 elk in 2 months. Why? Because half of its kills were being stolen by black bears so it had to keep killing and killing. Grizz would have no problem jacking a kill from lions or a few wolves, making the cats and dogs have to kill again and again, far beyond their own needs, just to sustain the welfare bears. Something to consider, bears impact predation rates beyond just the fawns and calfs they gobble down. https://www.themeateater.com/video/...gars-summer-diet-in-yellowstone-national-park

 

[Dunning Kruger]

Oh, plus deys scary!

Basically i just cant see how adding grizzlies would in any way increase hunting opportunities but i can see many ways they would decrease them. Theyre pie shrinkers.

 

[MO Betta]

If a species can support having a hunting or trapping season for them according to conservation department population objectives (immune to political pressure), no lawsuits or legislation can be used to block it.

Invasive species are KOS, no protections & you cannot sell hunts for them. They won't be eliminated if people make a living off of them.

Tags cannot be allocated to outfitters. Outfitters can sell their services, or access to lands they lease and their potential clients draw a tag like everyone else. If you're good at your job, you won't have a problem getting clients.

Landowner tags can only be used by the landowner or immediate family. Sell access if you want, many do.

Elimination of game farms and high fence operations.

I'd be happy with any 4 of these 5.