Biden Administration stops ANWR development

[VikingsGuy]

I agree free markets would be great, but we have to be honest and say they don’t exist. Never have. We have a lot of economic “nudging”. O&G gets tax incentives that benefit smaller players. The entire MLP industry was built on a special tax benefit. Ethanol gets a special tax break. And we know solar, wind, etc. have them. Despite that solar has still come down in cost enough to replace coal. Previous admin put a tariff on China solar panels or the cost would be even lower.

Free markets are a dream and the working American pays the country’s bills. You could argue free markets are the reason manufacturing moved to China. That is how we got better, cheaper alternatives in almost everything. At some point, the tradeoff is we have to pay more for the outcome we desire. Better to do it slowly than be forced to do it later.

"Pure" markets don't exist. But there is a big difference between the normal government meddling with tax incentives and purposefully driving out of the market of the currently most effective/efficient energy source.

And ethanol is a mess - a mess driven not by rational market energy choices, but by misplaced belief that it was net renewable and a supplement to farm policy. Solar is on a similar path - a politically driven choice with a horrible total life cycle/impact story.

 

[BigHornRam]

Your aversion to Google search will be the end of me.
In the US, nat gas is the 800lb gorilla. Mostly because it is sourced and used in a localized fashion. If you view the situation globally, places like India for example, renewables have already matched the cost of O&G because the inputs have to be imported where solar is more localized.

https://www.lazard.com/media/451419/lazards-levelized-cost-of-energy-version-140.pdf

In your previous example you were discussing solar costs in the USA. Now you are moving the discussion to solar costs in India. So now the #1 USA electrical generation source is nat gas. We were told for years it was cleaner than coal, and now cheaper, so we switched over. Now it's the 800 lb gorilla? You are all over the map with your zealous support of solar.

 

[brocksw]

 

[SAJ-99]

In your previous example you were discussing solar costs in the USA. Now you are moving the discussion to solar costs in India. So now the #1 USA electrical generation source is nat gas. We were told for years it was cleaner than coal, and now cheaper, so we switched over. Now it's the 800 lb gorilla? You are all over the map with your zealous support of solar.

Sorry, I don't believe I ever said US. I apologize if you feel misled. Solar is now viewed as cheaper than coal. I never said it was #1 and it will not replace nat gas any time soon.
I am not a zealous supporter of solar. I am not a fan of huge wind fields and solar panels for miles, especially on public land. I am simply showing where the market is going.

 

[SAJ-99]

"Pure" markets don't exist. But there is a big difference between the normal government meddling with tax incentives and purposefully driving out of the market of the currently most effective/efficient energy source.

And ethanol is a mess - a mess driven not by rational market energy choices, but by misplaced belief that it was net renewable and a supplement to farm policy. Solar is on a similar path - a politically driven choice with a horrible total life cycle/impact story.

Maybe true. Time will tell. But it is a fine line between "free market driven" and "political decision driven". Not sure how to separate the two in a lot of cases, especially nowadays.

 

[BigHornRam]

Interesting! Good nuclear energy 101 discussion for dummies like me. Thanks.

 

[brocksw]

Interesting! Good nuclear energy 101 discussion for dummies like me. Thanks.

Very interesting to listen to Gates and Musk talk about the future of energy. I mean....absolutely fascinating. You'd think 2 of the smartest humans on the planet would have reached the same conclusion but they did not. Their ideas and opinions vary a bit. Gates favors majority nuclear with supplements of other sustainable sources. Musk thinks it will be much more equally divided into nuclear, wind, solar, geothermal.

 

[brocksw]

Another interesting conversation.

 

[BigHornRam]

Musk's schtick is wearing thin with the people that will legitimately be investing in future energy sources, IMO. Bring the hate.

 

[noharleyyet]

Musk takes his effyou money coronation seriously...prolly be twittbanned

 

[BigHornRam]

Musk takes his effyou money coronation seriously...prolly be twittbanned

They wouldn't dare.

 

[noharleyyet]

 

[JT88]

Wind Turbine Blades Can’t Be Recycled, So They’re Piling Up in Landfills

Companies are searching for ways to deal with the tens of thousands of blades that have reached the end of their lives.

www.bloomberg.com

I found this terribly disturbing. How can we justify this stuff?

 

[JT88]

I don't know why the link came out like that but it should still work

 

[SAJ-99]

Wind Turbine Blades Can’t Be Recycled, So They’re Piling Up in Landfills

Companies are searching for ways to deal with the tens of thousands of blades that have reached the end of their lives.

www.bloomberg.com

I found this terribly disturbing. How can we justify this stuff?

The article says there is a solution. It all boils down to $. Make it more expensive to bury them than to recycle.

"One start-up, Global Fiberglass Solutions, developed a method to break down blades and press them into pellets and fiber boards to be used for flooring and walls. The company started producing samples at a plant in Sweetwater, Texas, near the continent’s largest concentration of wind farms. It plans another operation in Iowa."

 

[mtmiller]

Wind Turbine Blades Can’t Be Recycled, So They’re Piling Up in Landfills

Companies are searching for ways to deal with the tens of thousands of blades that have reached the end of their lives.

www.bloomberg.com

I found this terribly disturbing. How can we justify this stuff?

If we only had a place to put them.


In all seriousness, recycling options are becoming a reality. I heard about the pallets in 2020, but I think there might be opportunities in cement as well. As always, check my work.

 

[SAJ-99]

If we only had a place to put them.
View attachment 173498

In all seriousness, recycling options are becoming a reality. I heard about the pallets in 2020, but I think there might be opportunities in cement as well. As always, check my work.

Have to recycle coal waste too. Any solution should address the entire process. It is short sighted to just look at CO2 production. I think wind is better than coal, but a comprehensive look at all solutions should be done. Otherwise we are just kicking the can down the road.

 

[JT88]

The article says there is a solution. It all boils down to $. Make it more expensive to bury them than to recycle.

Right... I just thought it was crazy that in the mean time, we'll just bury them. It just seems like a typical alternative energy solution that ends up being arguably worse than our current methods. Why didn't the company figure in safe disposal method/cost when they put them into service? Because it wouldn't have been cost effective or viable? Then is it really a good alternative?

 

[noharleyyet]

All part of 24/7 sloganeering spawned from the new normal non stop campaign cycle.

 

[JT88]

If we only had a place to put them.
View attachment 173498

In all seriousness, recycling options are becoming a reality. I heard about the pallets in 2020, but I think there might be opportunities in cement as well. As always, check my work.

At first glance I thought that was a lithium mine, then I realized there weren't any poor starving pot bellied kids working down there.