MJE2083
Well-known member
Sounds awesome, can't wait to see them. Would gladly pay if needed.
What if?
- Thread starter Big Fin
- Start date
MLaird
Well-known member
Really looking forward to seeing these stories. Thanks, Randy, for being willing to give them a new & wider audience. And thanks to Marcus for getting the ball rolling!
Northwoods Labs
Well-known member
I've spent some time in the Taylor Fork area. Unbelievable place, did not have a clue about any of the backstory to it. I'll be looking forward to watching the video and learning more
Resurrecting this thread. The plans of these stories of "What if" got derailed by the Shanghai Chicken Flu, also know as COVID-19. We did get finished with the "Dam That Never Was," a project that was partially completed before the bug disrupted life. That is on our YouTube Channel.
Marcus and I are plotting ways to continue telling these stories. "What if" applies to so many people who stuck their neck out on behalf of wild places and wild things. The number of them we have lost in the last five years makes it regrettable that I have not got to these stories by now.
Some of them are challenges. Marcus went to scout out telling the Cecil Garland story and how Cecil, a local hardware merchant in Lincoln Montana, stopped the "plows of progress" that would have brought development to the Scapegoat backcounty and in the process created the only citizen-originated Wilderness Area in the country. We worked with a great USFS person who manages that Forest. He offered us a film permit for the purposes of telling that story, though it is nearly impossible to get a Wilderness film permit in USFS Region 1.
Marcus returned with bad news. On the summer weekend they went and scouted the areas Cecil spoke so eloquently about, the places so dear to him, Marcus witnessed them to be a beehive of activity. Parking lots were crammed. Dogs, people, dog shit and people shit, and all the other disparaging violations landscapes suffer under the surge of concentrated humanity. We strategized. We punted - the Scapegoat is under enough year-round pressure. We'd have to find another way to tell the story. We are working on that.
With the East Crazy Land Exchange being a topic of recent focus, it might be worth telling the story of how the USFS was able to consolidate all the checkerboard in the N/NW portions of the Crazies via a land exchange with the Galt family. The USFS had most of the remaining checkerboard ready to be consolidated under another land exchange. Yet, the election of 1994 brought in the "Contract with America" which gave folks claiming (falsely) to be fiscal hawks. They defunded LWCF and spent like drunk sailors on other programs, causing the consolidation to fall about by late 1995. This was early in my days of being involved in these issues and it was a great experience to learn from those doing the heavy lifting, only to see their work be sunk by the waves of politics.
Had that exchange/consolidation not have been sunk in 1995, the controversy over the East Crazy Land Exchange would have been moot. Further evidence supporting my belief that "If you think conservation and access is expensive and complicated today, give it ten years." Or, "What if" we had got that done.
We were lucky to get an interview with Bob Gibson, former Supervisor of the Gallatin National Forest, passionate and accomplished hunter, and early leader on the Board of RMEF. His color and frankness would be welcome today. How we can put that to use to explain the "What if" Bob hadn't told the USFS they were gonna do the OTO Ranch, Dome Mountain, and other access projects in the upper Paradise Valley?
The number of "What if" stories, whether what if they hadn't got it done or what if we had got it done, is extensive, just in my part of the world. It's a fun exercise to be back planning these and trying to get them done. They take a long time. The logistics are complicated. Coordinating people who can give them context is challenging. Yet, I think stories that tell us how places were conserved, how access was created, gives us reasons for hope during times when things might seem stacked against us.
As Poz always reminded me, "Preach hope and possibility, despair inspires nobody." These stories will hopefully do that.
Marcus and I are plotting ways to continue telling these stories. "What if" applies to so many people who stuck their neck out on behalf of wild places and wild things. The number of them we have lost in the last five years makes it regrettable that I have not got to these stories by now.
Some of them are challenges. Marcus went to scout out telling the Cecil Garland story and how Cecil, a local hardware merchant in Lincoln Montana, stopped the "plows of progress" that would have brought development to the Scapegoat backcounty and in the process created the only citizen-originated Wilderness Area in the country. We worked with a great USFS person who manages that Forest. He offered us a film permit for the purposes of telling that story, though it is nearly impossible to get a Wilderness film permit in USFS Region 1.
Marcus returned with bad news. On the summer weekend they went and scouted the areas Cecil spoke so eloquently about, the places so dear to him, Marcus witnessed them to be a beehive of activity. Parking lots were crammed. Dogs, people, dog shit and people shit, and all the other disparaging violations landscapes suffer under the surge of concentrated humanity. We strategized. We punted - the Scapegoat is under enough year-round pressure. We'd have to find another way to tell the story. We are working on that.
With the East Crazy Land Exchange being a topic of recent focus, it might be worth telling the story of how the USFS was able to consolidate all the checkerboard in the N/NW portions of the Crazies via a land exchange with the Galt family. The USFS had most of the remaining checkerboard ready to be consolidated under another land exchange. Yet, the election of 1994 brought in the "Contract with America" which gave folks claiming (falsely) to be fiscal hawks. They defunded LWCF and spent like drunk sailors on other programs, causing the consolidation to fall about by late 1995. This was early in my days of being involved in these issues and it was a great experience to learn from those doing the heavy lifting, only to see their work be sunk by the waves of politics.
Had that exchange/consolidation not have been sunk in 1995, the controversy over the East Crazy Land Exchange would have been moot. Further evidence supporting my belief that "If you think conservation and access is expensive and complicated today, give it ten years." Or, "What if" we had got that done.
We were lucky to get an interview with Bob Gibson, former Supervisor of the Gallatin National Forest, passionate and accomplished hunter, and early leader on the Board of RMEF. His color and frankness would be welcome today. How we can put that to use to explain the "What if" Bob hadn't told the USFS they were gonna do the OTO Ranch, Dome Mountain, and other access projects in the upper Paradise Valley?
The number of "What if" stories, whether what if they hadn't got it done or what if we had got it done, is extensive, just in my part of the world. It's a fun exercise to be back planning these and trying to get them done. They take a long time. The logistics are complicated. Coordinating people who can give them context is challenging. Yet, I think stories that tell us how places were conserved, how access was created, gives us reasons for hope during times when things might seem stacked against us.
As Poz always reminded me, "Preach hope and possibility, despair inspires nobody." These stories will hopefully do that.
Headed out this week to do the Bob Gibson story. If you have interest in the Northern Yellowstone elk herd, whether as a hunter or just an advocate for wildlife, the work of Bob Gibson is worth knowing. As the top guy on the Gallatin National Forest and in his role on the Board of RMEF immediately following his retirement from the USFS, he worked to protect those critical migration corridors.
Bob, being a passionate hunter who grew up in Butte, MT in 1933, understood the importance of habitat. As he told me in the interview we did with him, "Once we lose it, we aren't getting it back." He was referring to wildlife habitat being consumed by human development.
He told me he was most impacted when as the leader of Gallatin NF, he flew the Northern Yellowstone range with Bob Barbee, who was the Superintendent of YNP, just after the Yellowstone fires of 1988. Both elk hunters, they knew how vulnerable these elk were, yet Bob describes that flight as making it much more pressing. He and Barbee both committed that they would use their positions within the USFS and YNP to do all they could to protect those corridors.
It took a few years, a lot of collaboration with RMEF, USFS, YNP, and the private landowners, but through fee acquisition and conservation easements, they got it done. They protected most of the migration corridors on the east side of the Yellowstone River and expanded the Dome Mountain WMA.
Back to the title of this thread, "What if?"
What if two elk fanatics hadn't been in charge of the agencies most in control of those corridors? What if RMEF hadn't been able to raise money and Congressional support to fund those projects? What if those long-time private landowners had been more worried about development profits?
Well, the "what if" is that the Northern Herd of YNP would be far less than it currently is and the future of that herd would be at far greater risk. Hunters would have lost the most.
I've spent two weeks planning this episode. It starts with a turkey call Bob made for me following some public land projects I was engaged in. I still remember him coming up to me after a public presentation, "Randy, where the hell is your office? I got something I've made for you."
A few days later Bob was at my CPA office telling stories that I wish I had recorded on video. Most of them were big smiles and laughs of some elk hunting misadventures, mixed with his ideas of where the USFS could be helpful, and his emphasis that the older he got the more he realized what had been lost to the slow and unyielding hand of "progress."
Mostly it was encouragement to keep pushing and not giving up when the effort seemed futile. I think he understood the value of mentorship, whether in hunting or conservation. At the end, he handed me this turkey call he made, a call that has never been used in the field; a call that symbolizes a lot more than something to lure turkeys within shotgun range.
Bob, being a passionate hunter who grew up in Butte, MT in 1933, understood the importance of habitat. As he told me in the interview we did with him, "Once we lose it, we aren't getting it back." He was referring to wildlife habitat being consumed by human development.
He told me he was most impacted when as the leader of Gallatin NF, he flew the Northern Yellowstone range with Bob Barbee, who was the Superintendent of YNP, just after the Yellowstone fires of 1988. Both elk hunters, they knew how vulnerable these elk were, yet Bob describes that flight as making it much more pressing. He and Barbee both committed that they would use their positions within the USFS and YNP to do all they could to protect those corridors.
It took a few years, a lot of collaboration with RMEF, USFS, YNP, and the private landowners, but through fee acquisition and conservation easements, they got it done. They protected most of the migration corridors on the east side of the Yellowstone River and expanded the Dome Mountain WMA.
Back to the title of this thread, "What if?"
What if two elk fanatics hadn't been in charge of the agencies most in control of those corridors? What if RMEF hadn't been able to raise money and Congressional support to fund those projects? What if those long-time private landowners had been more worried about development profits?
Well, the "what if" is that the Northern Herd of YNP would be far less than it currently is and the future of that herd would be at far greater risk. Hunters would have lost the most.
I've spent two weeks planning this episode. It starts with a turkey call Bob made for me following some public land projects I was engaged in. I still remember him coming up to me after a public presentation, "Randy, where the hell is your office? I got something I've made for you."
A few days later Bob was at my CPA office telling stories that I wish I had recorded on video. Most of them were big smiles and laughs of some elk hunting misadventures, mixed with his ideas of where the USFS could be helpful, and his emphasis that the older he got the more he realized what had been lost to the slow and unyielding hand of "progress."
Mostly it was encouragement to keep pushing and not giving up when the effort seemed futile. I think he understood the value of mentorship, whether in hunting or conservation. At the end, he handed me this turkey call he made, a call that has never been used in the field; a call that symbolizes a lot more than something to lure turkeys within shotgun range.
Gerald Martin
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2009
- Messages
- 8,928
I’m looking forward to seeing this. Thank you Randy for keeping these stories and this history in front of us.
As someone who came to the area after all this collaboration and consolidation of public lands happened, I have had my life personally enriched by the efforts of yourself and the folks listed here even though their names and efforts were unknown to me.
The realization that others have risen to meet the challenges of their time and pursued the opportunities they saw to benefit wildlife and the public good inspires and motivates me to involve myself in the opportunities where I see I can make a difference.
As someone who came to the area after all this collaboration and consolidation of public lands happened, I have had my life personally enriched by the efforts of yourself and the folks listed here even though their names and efforts were unknown to me.
The realization that others have risen to meet the challenges of their time and pursued the opportunities they saw to benefit wildlife and the public good inspires and motivates me to involve myself in the opportunities where I see I can make a difference.
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Addicting
Well-known member
Just curious, did he know when he made it for you, you were a self proclaimed worst turkey hunter kinda fella?
I think was self-evident when Bob said, “Give it a couple strikes and see how it sounds.” Upon seeing my confused look he grabbed it and said, “Here, let me show you.”
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