AZ Hunters Beware of the Trojan Horse
- Thread starter Nummie
- Start date
So how can we make a difference? NM has a heritage stamp for every license and most of it is stolen by their legislature. How about a dedicated "rancher relations" stamp for AZ that cannot be raided. G&F already has a department to manage this aspect. Tie funding to landowners into public hunter access. Coordinate the funding with projects for the volunteer bonus point if that happens. Would nullify the damage argument and improve rancher/hunter relations. IMO we need to do something to prevent the outfitters and landowners from pushing this agenda. NM said the landowner tags are a $30 million industry there and even RMEF owns land that they buy private tags for.
cjcj
New member
cjcj said:
Still awaiting an answer from the 3 amigo`s.
Nummie
New member
Ringer, I've read Gunner's post and I do not understand what he is trying to say. Maybe it just makes him feel better to make a comment, even if he is shooting from the hip!!
BuzzH
Well-known member
cjcj,
No transferable landowner tags in Montana or Wyoming....we care about our wildlife.
Besides that, dont worry about neighboring states, do whats RIGHT FOR SPORTSMEN AND THE WILDLIFE.
No transferable landowner tags in Montana or Wyoming....we care about our wildlife.
Besides that, dont worry about neighboring states, do whats RIGHT FOR SPORTSMEN AND THE WILDLIFE.
Nummie
New member
Buzzh, I spoke with one of your representatives from Wyoming's Game & Fish Department, and you are correct. They do, as do other states, have programs designed to address the problems of wildlife damages.
Your suggestion to not worry about what other states are doing is, I believe misguided. The more I learn about these ranching for wildlife programs in other states, the more I realize that NONE of the states that I've contacted likes the program, ALL of them feel the public and public hunters are getting shafted, and hunters or sportsmen in those states DIDN'T do their homework or didn't have an opportunity to speak before these programs were initiated.
I feel that we all need to be VERY aware of what has happened in other states on this issue. Maybe if hunters in all the western states had been morre aware, George Taulmann and his cohorts wouldn't have us by the 'nads now! JMHO
Your suggestion to not worry about what other states are doing is, I believe misguided. The more I learn about these ranching for wildlife programs in other states, the more I realize that NONE of the states that I've contacted likes the program, ALL of them feel the public and public hunters are getting shafted, and hunters or sportsmen in those states DIDN'T do their homework or didn't have an opportunity to speak before these programs were initiated.
I feel that we all need to be VERY aware of what has happened in other states on this issue. Maybe if hunters in all the western states had been morre aware, George Taulmann and his cohorts wouldn't have us by the 'nads now! JMHO
BuzzH
Well-known member
Nummie,
Dont take me wrong, what I meant to say is that cjcj shouldnt use other states WITH ranching for Wildlife Programs as an excuse to justify them in AZ. In other words, just because NM, UT, and CO have these screwed up programs...doesnt mean AZ must also have them.
I agree with you, that we do need to be aware of whats happening in other states and support one another on issues like USO, Ranching for Wildlife, etc.
One thing I would caution you on though, is believing that a majority of AZ resident hunters are smart enough to see the problems with Ranching for Wildlife programs...theres lots of cjcj's running around..."well, you have it your state".
My advice would be to shut this crap idea down NOW.
Dont take me wrong, what I meant to say is that cjcj shouldnt use other states WITH ranching for Wildlife Programs as an excuse to justify them in AZ. In other words, just because NM, UT, and CO have these screwed up programs...doesnt mean AZ must also have them.
I agree with you, that we do need to be aware of whats happening in other states and support one another on issues like USO, Ranching for Wildlife, etc.
One thing I would caution you on though, is believing that a majority of AZ resident hunters are smart enough to see the problems with Ranching for Wildlife programs...theres lots of cjcj's running around..."well, you have it your state".
My advice would be to shut this crap idea down NOW.
Nummie- I would be interested in the responses you got from UT and whom the came from. I work in an area with a large, famous Conservation Wildlife Management Unit (CWMU) that pretty much has their way with the UT DWR. This CWMU is tied directly to the Mormon Church and has a lot of influence outside of their ownership. Not that all the influence is bad, mind you. IME, the DWR seems more than happy with the CWMU program in UT, which is unsettling for me. Especially the ones that include portions, some quite sizable, of federal and state lands.
Buzz-You are partially correct in that the majority of hunters here have not been involved but they do care when rallied. I am sure CJ is the same even though you pimp him at every opportunity. We will hopefully look back on Taulman and the private tag schemes as something that woke up the sleeping bear. I am seeing a high degree of involvement and passion about fighting hard to protect the family hunters. It may only be that 20% or so are active now but every day guys like Nummie are getting more involve and more pissed off. Guys like Taulman see New Mexico as the launching pad for taking big game private in all states where they can make a buck. All of us need to use these forums to rally the troops and help each other so let us know if we can write letters or share strategies on your behalf. If we don't I think we will all be hunting cows and does in five years unless we have ten grand to toss around. JMO.
Nummie
New member
BuzzH-I agree that this is a "crap" idea. The presentation was very unorganized and sophomoric. However, I'm wondering if it really mattered what the quality of the presentation was. If the Legislature, or someone in it, wants to move it forward, he or she can. Think about that one for a while. That's why I believe we need to make damm sure this issue is dead before we move on to something else!!!!! BTW, I don't post here often, and I'm not that familiar with cjcj and his/her perspective. I'll start watching, though. I'm now posting on over 5 different boards because of this proposal, and I often forget which board I'm on!!
1 Pointer-I was told recently by an official of AZ G&F of comments made by his counterpart in Utah regarding their CWMU? program. It is interesting that you brought in the LDS angle to this. Seems that in Utah this CWMU program just appeared as a new program for their G&F department to manage. There was NO legislation that authorized it, and, from what I "hear" about the program, their G&F department and hunters aren't all that happy with it. From what I've read and heard about it, I wouldn't be either. 1-Pointer, if you can pm me or send me an e-mail, I might have some information for you that I can fax to you. I will know in the next week or so who I can contact in Utah to get more info on the program.
1 Pointer-I was told recently by an official of AZ G&F of comments made by his counterpart in Utah regarding their CWMU? program. It is interesting that you brought in the LDS angle to this. Seems that in Utah this CWMU program just appeared as a new program for their G&F department to manage. There was NO legislation that authorized it, and, from what I "hear" about the program, their G&F department and hunters aren't all that happy with it. From what I've read and heard about it, I wouldn't be either. 1-Pointer, if you can pm me or send me an e-mail, I might have some information for you that I can fax to you. I will know in the next week or so who I can contact in Utah to get more info on the program.
cjcj
New member
Buzz your making an ASS out of yourself...Where did i say landowner tags were ok..or that it was ok because other states have them or are you just making up crap in your little insecure head ? hump hump...I`m glad there are lots of cj`s running around...wish there were more of us.....at least we don`t make things up and lie. Nummie Buzz talks out of his ass alot [when it comes to me]BuzzH said:
He has ever since us AZ boys made a "total fool' out of him on the [offroad game retrieval issue] he doesn`t know diidly shit about AZ unlike myself and others from this state [ i have lived here 51 yrs.] so i have a slight advantage over him hehe...i think he has spent about 1 hour and 15 min. here though. Nummie- Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti-LDS per se, but it's no secret that they are THE voice that is heard in UT, by sheer numbers alone. The 'Church' is also one of the, if not the largest private landowner in the state, thus they have the opportunity to make a few $$ from the CWMU program.
cjcj
New member
cjcj said:Buzz your making an ASS out of yourself...Where did i say landowner tags were ok..or that it was ok because other states have them or are you just making up crap in your little insecure head ? hump hump...I`m glad there are lots of cj`s running around...wish there were more of us.....at least we don`t make things up and lie. Nummie Buzz talks out of his ass alot [when it comes to me]
Yep Buzzh caught in another LIE. hump hump
BuzzH
Well-known member
cjcj,
You couldnt catch a lie in a butterfly net.
Lets hear what you've done to stop landowner tags in AZ.
As to the off-road issue in AZ, the only schooling was the one elkgunner, miller, and I gave you...
I think you'd be better off sticking to topics involving shooting fork-horns from the front seat of the truck and illegals (that you arent controlling at all).
Must suck to be on the losing end of all the issues you're fighting...but, hey, keep up the good fight.
You couldnt catch a lie in a butterfly net.
Lets hear what you've done to stop landowner tags in AZ.
As to the off-road issue in AZ, the only schooling was the one elkgunner, miller, and I gave you...
I think you'd be better off sticking to topics involving shooting fork-horns from the front seat of the truck and illegals (that you arent controlling at all).
Must suck to be on the losing end of all the issues you're fighting...but, hey, keep up the good fight.
cjcj
New member
Just what i thought "DENIAL"
