ATV CLOSURE - ABUSE OF POWER

[ELKCHSR]

I don't own an ATV anymore because I don't want to teach my kids that it is okay to ride them where ever they want to.

With this argument, did you also get rid of your firearms because others abuse the right to have them because signs are shot up? Or are you educating your kids on the right and wrong way's of doing things

Tell me how to stop ATV's from going off road.

It takes more than the athorities, it takes all of us, when you see abuse, yes I know you or I don't see it all, but you have the moral obligation to report it if at all possible, and so does every one else. There are actually more of us than them and it just takes the nads on our part to start putting an end to it. TipMont in this state, by all accounts, is pretty good about acting on abuse they are informed of. No, the perpetrators may not get caught every time, but because they don't know when to stop, will get caught sooner or later. I know that may not fix all the damage they have done in the past, but this is the message that needs to start being sent out. I will do this in a second, and if I catch them in the areas I am in, if they leave their rig unatended for a short amount of time, it may still be there when the authorities show up...

Nemont, Trying to reason with Ten and all the others who are too lazy to get off their ATVs is hopeless. What it all boils down to is some people are just too lazy to walk, and nothing is going to change that. And they want to be able to tear all around just like they see the guys on the TV commercials doing! Why else do they need some expensive, high powered souped up ATV? Certainly not for riding on roads annd trails!

I don't own an ATV, and I would suppose I put on as many miles as the best the board has to offer on my boots every year. But I still think it takes all of us and a concerted effort to start getting the word out there. To turn in these purpetrators when they are found. Not make blanket laws that abuse every one...

Ten Beers

I think this is a very good debate and I will say this, the name calling needs to end, it just degrades the debate and makes you wrong, no matter how right you may be with your argument. It makes you look small and very childish, lets move this whole section up a notch. No different than the topic at hand, it needs to be policed by us and not allowed to be degraded, unless of course it is your goal to keep others from comming down here to add to the threads with the insight that they also hold. There could and probably is very good information that is lost just because a few want to keep the topics at a grade school level by their constant incesant degredation of others. We are the quality control here and this area of the board over the last couple of weeks has been showing marked improvements.
Lets keep some credence to what we post and keep the ignorance for our e-mails to the ones we side with and out of the SI section....

 

[Nemont]

quote:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />I don't own an ATV anymore because I don't want to teach my kids that it is okay to ride them where ever they want to.

With this argument, did you also get rid of your firearms because others abuse the right to have them because signs are shot up? Or are you educating your kids on the right and wrong way's of doing things
</font>[/QUOTE]ElkChsr,
They are two mutually exclusive deals. I teach my kids the safe use of firearms and the proper way to go about hunting AKA Hunting ethics.

My deal with ATV's is I no longer want to own one because of what they have done to some of my favorite hunting areas. Fortunately I have the option of hunting private lands but what about the average Joe out there?

I could wear out the phone to TipMont and still not put a dent in the ATV use or abuse of the land.

It is a problem. I have bit my tongue for a long long time and deliberately tried to stay out of the ATV debate. IMHO the ATVer's are hurting their own cause, politically, by their complaints about being locked out of certain areas.

Nemont

 

[Muledeer4me]

Who here has not agreed that there is ATV abuse????
It's only those posters that want them totally banned that keep that BS going.

If we need to ban ATV's because of all the abuse -- should we also ban hunting because of all the poaching and wounding of game that goes on during hunting season?

I think those of us that own ATV's are doing more to help this issue then those of you that can only bitch about it.
We not only support and belong to hunting & outdoor org. we also support ATV group's.

 

[Ten Bears]

Well said CHSR.

I find it funny that so many would jump on the anti-atv's and hunting bandwagon, when this issue was whether or not the county has the authority to place restrictions on a road administered by a federal agency.

For those who prefer to launch name calling attacks; please feel free, it only demonstrates your inability to "rationally" deal with opposing points of veiw, and demonstrates a level of your own insecurity as an individual.

NEMONT, I too get frustrated by ATV riders that can't seem to follow the rules, and have encountered them in closed areas during hunting season (reported them also).

 

[JoseCuervo]

Originally posted by Ten Bears:
Well said CHSR.

I find it funny that so many would jump on the anti-atv's and hunting bandwagon, when this issue was whether or not the county has the authority to place restrictions on a road administered by a federal agency.

Ten Beers,

Do you really think the "issue" is the authority of the County? How much more in "Denial" can you get, without being in Egypt????

 

[Ten Bears]

As a result of communications between the now-removed San Juan Commissioner and a San Miguel (Telluride) Commissioner prompted that San Miguel Commissioner to erect signs closing Black Bear, Imogene, and Ophir Passes to ATVs and other vehicles classified as OHV. Two of the three passes have been the most preferred routes of all types of motorized users for decades, but now they have been segregated to be available only to some vehicles while prejudiced against others. This action was, apparently, done without the approval of the other two Commissioners, and without any input.....The Forest Service contends that the San Miguel County has no authority to close these roads, and the Forest Service retains jurisdiction on them, and prefers they be left open. But no action has been taken.

EG, Did you miss that part, or were you just jumping in with both feet in your mouth?

 

[JoseCuervo]

Originally posted by Ten Bears:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />As a result of communications between the now-removed San Juan Commissioner and a San Miguel (Telluride) Commissioner prompted that San Miguel Commissioner to erect signs closing Black Bear, Imogene, and Ophir Passes to ATVs and other vehicles classified as OHV. Two of the three passes have been the most preferred routes of all types of motorized users for decades, but now they have been segregated to be available only to some vehicles while prejudiced against others. This action was, apparently, done without the approval of the other two Commissioners, and without any input.....The Forest Service contends that the San Miguel County has no authority to close these roads, and the Forest Service retains jurisdiction on them, and prefers they be left open. But no action has been taken.

EG, Did you miss that part, or were you just jumping in with both feet in your mouth? </font>[/QUOTE]Ten Beers,
You really think this issue is a "Constitutional Authority" issue? It is your continual denial of the damage caused by ATVs that loses you and your kind support.

The real issue here is people in Colorado (and everywhere else in the West) are tired of the ATVs and the damage, and are starting to clamp down on them. The looney tune up above, from Slobhunter.com who wrote that rambling piece is trying to compare somebody passing laws in their county with Clinton's Monuments.

The same abuse of power is evident in the San Miguel County, and is evident all over the country

Do you live under the same level of Paranoia????

 

[Nemont]

I think those of us that own ATV's are doing more to help this issue then those of you that can only bitch about it.
We not only support and belong to hunting & outdoor org. we also support ATV group's.

MD4Me,

So you agree that there is abuse. How do you regulate the riders who don't join ATV groups?

Personally I feel if you use ATV's as a tool.eg moving cows, fencing, ice fishing ect. That is fine. However; When I see a trailer load of four wheelers heading out south of Glasgow on the Pines Road and it is spotlessly clean I know it isn't cowboys out rounding up cattle.

I have stopped people riding where thy shouldn't be and asked if they saw the signs that say "no vehicles beyond this point" and they basically say they will ride where they please.

This is just my observation but I have not seen a bill before the Montana Legislature sponsored by any ATV Group that wanted to regulate or control off road riding. I am up in Helena a lot during the legislative session and keep a close eye on the bills being introduced; haven't seen one from any organization that was affliated with ATVer's addressing abusive riding issues.

You say you support ATV groups's then what are the ATV groups doing for you to help clean up problem of illegal riding? I don't believe a ban is a good thing but somehow they need regulation because what is going on now isn't working. Look at the preception of ATV's during the OI meeting. If the ranchers are fed up with ATV's and what they are doing to the land what do you think the rest of the people involved think of the issue.
What I need from you, or anyone who will answer, is a concrete plan of how you are going to police the riders. To say it is up to all of us is a cop out. Please tell me so I can support a working plan of getting 4 wheelers out of prime hunting areas while preserving the ability to ride them on authorized trails only.

Nemont

[ 04-22-2004, 13:09: Message edited by: Nemont ]

 

[1_pointer]

What about a lottery permit system for riding ATVs? People want to compare ATV riding to hunting and I just can't go hunt sheep every year. IMO, ATVs are nearing the saturation point of what people are willing to put up with. Thus, in order to limit this we need to switch to a permit system. This would also ease issues involving enforcement of the laws. Rafters have to, why not ATVs???

 

[FAIRCHASEBEN]

EXTREMISM CLOSES THE DOOR ON POSITIVE DEBATE !!

To suggest ATV's should be banned is unreasonable and does nothing to move us towards a solution.

To deny that off-road use of ATV's is destroying wildlife habitat is also proof that some people need to pry their heads out of their cold dead asses.

The Dept. of Wildlife here in Nevada is currently taking public input on this issue.
PLEASE! For the sake of our hunting future as well as the rights of ATV users , who don't want to hear more talk of banning their ATV's due to the irresponsible use by some , e-mail them and support the common sense proposal to keep ATV's within 25 yards of the existing roads .No brainer guys , this is not an extreme proposal by the NDOW but it is opposed by a few local idiots backed by the ATV manufacturers industry.
If everyone without an EXTREMIST opinion would write , we won't have to let the BARKEATERS OR THE ATV INDUSTRY decide what's best for us.

ndow.org

Thank you in advance , FCB

( Ten Bears; please don't write , if you confuse them as much as you do me the entire Dept. of Wildlife will be shut down for a month ! )

 

[Ten Bears]

I'm not opposed to ATV's having to stay to the designated roads(or within 25ft of them, except campsite). However, I support the designation of some roads and trails for ATV (and lesser means)travel, and not passenger vehicles also.

Was there supposed to be a link there? ndow.org?

 

[JoseCuervo]

Originally posted by FAIRCHASEBEN:
Thank you in advance , FCB

( Ten Bears; please don't write , if you confuse them as much as you do me the entire Dept. of Wildlife will be shut down for a month ! )

FairChase, that was pretty Damn funny...

Hey Ten Beers,
You are even more restrictive with your 25 FEET than the proposal with the 25 YARDS . Or have you not got to the measurement unit in 3rd Grade, where you learn that 12 inches make a foot, and 3 feet make a yard....

 

[ELKCHSR]

Nothing like bringing in your own 3rd grade humor to a topic, Huh, gunner....
Keep yourself small, it makes it easy for the rest to see it to....

 

[Ten Bears]

Where I ride, a place to ride 25 feet off the trail would a blessing. Normally if you're 2 feet off the main portion of the trail, you're tumbling down the mountain. Why should it be more than 25 feet? The only reason you should be off the trail is to have a place to park your machine.