Arrow not breaking the spine?

[Bhoesl]

Has anyone hit a deer in the spine with an arrow and not had it break the spine - dropping right there?
I shot a whitetail doe this morning, 15 yards broadside, the hit looked a little high but definitely behind the shoulder blade. The Wierd thing was the arrow only appeared to go in maybe 4-6”. Did not hear a loud crack like hitting shoulder or something solid. Found zero blood at all.
Is it possible I hit the spine but didn’t break it? 65# compound with fixed blade slick trick broadhead…
Going out to search more after lunch.
Thanks

 

[Nick87]

If you hit the spine even without breaking it you would have known by the deers reaction. Imo/e the deer would have been immobile at least for a period of time. Sounds like you ended up in no man's land. I would still do a thorough search as best you can. Good luck.

 

[Flatbrimmer]

I backstrapped an elk last year, sounds like the same scenario. Too high for vitals, too low for spine, perfect left to right behind shoulder. She’ll pop your arrow out and survive I’ll bet. Still, do your due diligence

 

[Bob-WY]

Sounds like under the spine high in the shoulder blade which stopped it. If so, you got the top of lungs, there is no void. However that highup, with arrow blocking the hole, blood trail will be tough until the body cavity fills up

 

[Flatbrimmer]

No void? I beg to differ. I know the op is referring to a deer, but for enlarged purposes here is elk vitals. The distance from top of lungs to that line representing spine is INCHES. On the elk I shot id guess there was a total of 7-8 inches between spine and top of lungs, and I hit smack in the middle of that 7-8” distance. There is certainly a void of vitals up high. I watched that arrow pop out of the muscle in about 20 steps (hers not mine) and I watched the same cow feed on a hillside two days later with the same two cows she had when I shot her. Besides the lack of hair, she looked plenty content.


Again, an hour or more after the shot and 7.5 hours the next morning of trailing dots of blood later, I made the decision to call it. Do your due diligence.

 

[Bhoesl]

Have been looking for the last several hours, found nothing, not a single drop of blood. I don’t think it hit the shoulder blade, I hit one in the shoulder before and the sound was very distinct, never heard anything like that this time. Still don’t understand what stopped the arrow though.

 

[Nick87]

Have been looking for the last several hours, found nothing, not a single drop of blood. I don’t think it hit the shoulder blade, I hit one in the shoulder before and the sound was very distinct, never heard anything like that this time. Still don’t understand what stopped the arrow though.

Sometimes it just happens. I've shot them at 20 yards and double lunged and had the arrow bounce back off the opposite rib. Just depends.

 

[Flatbrimmer]

Have been looking for the last several hours, found nothing, not a single drop of blood. I don’t think it hit the shoulder blade, I hit one in the shoulder before and the sound was very distinct, never heard anything like that this time. Still don’t understand what stopped the arrow though.

Shitty feeling bud, it happens. Back out and give it a day?
Is it a place you hunt often?

 

[Firedude]

Yes it can happen. The spinal cord runs on top of the vertebrae. Not through it like most people think.

Sounds more like to me a high lung or void hit and smacked a rib on the opposite side. I've tracked a few of those that took a while to see blood. Sometimes a few hundred yards. Start marking where she was to where she ran out of site. Take that direction and start 30 degrees one side or the other. Zigzag over her trail. I'd be surprised if you didn't find blood before 300 yards.

Watch for grass that has a different "sheen" in the light. Running animals tend to bend grass over by force unlike a walking one. The sunlight reflects differently. Investigate those for blood.

 

[Bhoesl]

Shitty feeling bud, it happens. Back out and give it a day?
Is it a place you hunt often?

Yeah, right behind my house. If she does survive (at this point I hope she does) I’ll likely see her again.

 

[Bhoesl]

Yes it can happen. The spinal cord runs on top of the vertebrae. Not through it like most people think.

Sounds more like to me a high lung or void hit and smacked a rib on the opposite side. I've tracked a few of those that took a while to see blood. Sometimes a few hundred yards. Start marking where she was to where she ran out of site. Take that direction and start 30 degrees one side or the other. Zigzag over her trail. I'd be surprised if you didn't find blood before 300 yards.

Watch for grass that has a different "sheen" in the light. Running animals tend to bend grass over by force unlike a walking one. The sunlight reflects differently. Investigate those for blood.

The direction she ran is pretty wide open except for one thick narrow draw she was running up, which I searched thoroughly for atleast half a mile…

 

[KipCarson]

That deer will be fine imo, but even if she’s not it was the type hit that will allow her to go so far that you’ll never find her. The real question I think you should be asking is “What’s wrong with my set up that would cause me to get such poor penetration?”
I’m not trying to start any kind of argument or open a different can of worms but this was a whitetail doe, not an elephant. There’s not much reason your arrow should’ve been stopped. You’re shooting a 65# bow with a very reliable proven broadhead. If you truly did not hit bone it should’ve passed completely through with no problem. If you hit bone, it should’ve at least broken it and done enough damage to get to the vitals and leave some blood or disrupt her spinal cord enough to drop her instantly. There a lot of nuts and bolts to unpack but now it seems time to figure out what part of the system failed. Arrow too light, Bow out of tune causing poor arrow flight, etc?

I had changed my setup years ago to get faster flight, flatter arrow trajectory for farther shooting, and it resulted in an arrow combo that was good for targets but might as well be hitting an armored tank if it only hit a even a small doe’s shoulder blade. After shooting several deer where things went bad I went back to drawing board, and figured out I had to beef up my setup. Not to say I’ll never have problems but I’ll say that kind of thing you’re describing is highly unlikely now.

I hope you have better luck ongoing! Weird things tend to happen with arrows sometimes that seem to leave a lot of questions unanswered. Hopefully it won’t happen again, and definitely don’t be afraid to change your setup looking for better penetration.

 

[Bhoesl]

That deer will be fine imo, but even if she’s not it was the type hit that will allow her to go so far that you’ll never find her. The real question I think you should be asking is “What’s wrong with my set up that would cause me to get such poor penetration?”
I’m not trying to start any kind of argument or open a different can of worms but this was a whitetail doe, not an elephant. There’s not much reason your arrow should’ve been stopped. You’re shooting a 65# bow with a very reliable proven broadhead. If you truly did not hit bone it should’ve passed completely through with no problem. If you hit bone, it should’ve at least broken it and done enough damage to get to the vitals and leave some blood or disrupt her spinal cord enough to drop her instantly. There a lot of nuts and bolts to unpack but now it seems time to figure out what part of the system failed. Arrow too light, Bow out of tune causing poor arrow flight, etc?

I had changed my setup years ago to get faster flight, flatter arrow trajectory for farther shooting, and it resulted in an arrow combo that was good for targets but might as well be hitting an armored tank if it only hit a even a small doe’s shoulder blade. After shooting several deer where things went bad I went back to drawing board, and figured out I had to beef up my setup. Not to say I’ll never have problems but I’ll say that kind of thing you’re describing is highly unlikely now.

I hope you have better luck ongoing! Weird things tend to happen with arrows sometimes that seem to leave a lot of questions unanswered. Hopefully it won’t happen again, and definitely don’t be afraid to change your setup looking for better penetration.

That’s the strangest part of the whole situation to me is why the arrow didn’t penetrate better. This is the same bow I’ve been using 20+ years, same arrow and broadhead for the past 4 or 5 years, this setup had killed dozens of deer and a bull elk, almost all of which passed completely through except the elk, which was buried right to the fletching.

 

[KipCarson]

Like I said, weird things seem to happen with arrows sometimes!

 

[elkfanatic]

I believe there's a void between lungs and spine on deer. Years ago I shot a doe broadside high behind the shoulder, arrow zipped on thru, very little blood. Three weeks later neighbor shot her and found the three bladed scars when skinning. Two years later did the same thing with an eight point but the arrow only penetrated half way thru.. He pulled it out as he walked away. Got a picture of him on my trail cam in the same location making a scrape two days later. Same neighbor shot him during gun season and same scar.

 

[Redman]

Years ago I shot a doe and she did the drop and run so my arrow hit high and penetration was poor. Found the arrow about 40 yds from where she ran littleto no blood and I looked all over. Next year same stand I shot a doe feeding on acorns and she died within secods. Found a scar above her shoulder blade on her back. Same doe and obviously wasn't bothered by the wound I gave her the year prior. I was shooting 70lb with a 100gr Thunderhead both times.

 

[Bhoesl]

Hopefully she’ll be okay, I’ve looked most of the day and found nothing. Time to give up and hope it doesn’t happen next time.
Thanks for the advice everyone, I’ll post back if I ever see her again.

 

[Nick87]

Like I said, weird things seem to happen with arrows sometimes!

Yup.

 

[sambo3006]

Sorry to hear about the lost deer.
In reference to anatomy, the ribs are attached to the base of the vertebral bodies. The spinal cord runs right through the center of the vertebral bodies. Each vertebra has a spinous process, which is the “wing” that sticks up off of it. The back straps are attached to the spinous processes and to the rib cage. The lungs completely fill the rib cage to the diaphragm. The rib cage expands and contracts with the lungs with each breath.
There is no “void” between the lungs and the spine. There are four possible scenarios when hitting this general area.
One: you shoot just below the vertebral bodies and through the very top of the lungs, most likely resulting in a pass through (unless a thick area of the scapula is hit) and hopefully a dead deer.
Two: you hit the vertebral body itself. The outcome of this depends on the penetration capability of your arrow and broadhead. You could either damage/sever the spinal cord or the broad head could lodge in the vertebra. The first will drop the deer for good, the second may or may not drop the deer, most likely temporarily.
Three: you hit the spinous processes. This will also strike the blackstrap, which is attached to them. This does not cause spinal cord damage and may or may not drop the deer temporarily.
Four: you hit the scapula. This may or may not stop the arrow from penetrating to the lungs, and will probably not drop the deer, but may make it stumble or stagger. Penetration into one or both lungs is possible without a pass though.
There is actually anywhere between about three and as much as six inches between the top of the lungs/bottom of the vertebra and the top of the back line. This distance increases as you approach the shoulder from the backside of the deer.
I would bet that 95% of archery hits to the “void” that get minimal penetration are to areas two, three, and four.
It sucks, but is quite likely survivable for the deer.

 

[westbranch]

No void? I beg to differ. I know the op is referring to a deer, but for enlarged purposes here is elk vitals. The distance from top of lungs to that line representing spine is INCHES. On the elk I shot id guess there was a total of 7-8 inches between spine and top of lungs, and I hit smack in the middle of that 7-8” distance. There is certainly a void of vitals up high. I watched that arrow pop out of the muscle in about 20 steps (hers not mine) and I watched the same cow feed on a hillside two days later with the same two cows she had when I shot her. Besides the lack of hair, she looked plenty content.


Again, an hour or more after the shot and 7.5 hours the next morning of trailing dots of blood later, I made the decision to call it. Do your due diligence.

The actual spine is much lower than the top of the back especially in the area of the lungs. I think with the high "void" shots people are usually shooting over the spine and through the backstrap. Elk skeleton view should make that more apparent vs. the vitals drawing.