Arrow not breaking the spine?

[tjones]

Sorry to hear about the lost deer.
In reference to anatomy, the ribs are attached to the base of the vertebral bodies. The spinal cord runs right through the center of the vertebral bodies. Each vertebra has a spinous process, which is the “wing” that sticks up off of it. The back straps are attached to the spinous processes and to the rib cage. The lungs completely fill the rib cage to the diaphragm. The rib cage expands and contracts with the lungs with each breath.
There is no “void” between the lungs and the spine. There are four possible scenarios when hitting this general area.
One: you shoot just below the vertebral bodies and through the very top of the lungs, most likely resulting in a pass through (unless a thick area of the scapula is hit) and hopefully a dead deer.
Two: you hit the vertebral body itself. The outcome of this depends on the penetration capability of your arrow and broadhead. You could either damage/sever the spinal cord or the broad head could lodge in the vertebra. The first will drop the deer for good, the second may or may not drop the deer, most likely temporarily.
Three: you hit the spinous processes. This will also strike the blackstrap, which is attached to them. This does not cause spinal cord damage and may or may not drop the deer temporarily.
Four: you hit the scapula. This may or may not stop the arrow from penetrating to the lungs, and will probably not drop the deer, but may make it stumble or stagger. Penetration into one or both lungs is possible without a pass though.
There is actually anywhere between about three and as much as six inches between the top of the lungs/bottom of the vertebra and the top of the back line. This distance increases as you approach the shoulder from the backside of the deer.
I would bet that 95% of archery hits to the “void” that get minimal penetration are to areas two, three, and four.
It sucks, but is quite likely survivable for the deer.

This. The void is a hunters myth. Generally a void shot is a backstrap shot. Above the spine, below the hair line.

 

[QuazyQuinton]

Sorry to hear about the lost deer.
In reference to anatomy, the ribs are attached to the base of the vertebral bodies. The spinal cord runs right through the center of the vertebral bodies. Each vertebra has a spinous process, which is the “wing” that sticks up off of it. The back straps are attached to the spinous processes and to the rib cage. The lungs completely fill the rib cage to the diaphragm. The rib cage expands and contracts with the lungs with each breath.
There is no “void” between the lungs and the spine. There are four possible scenarios when hitting this general area.
One: you shoot just below the vertebral bodies and through the very top of the lungs, most likely resulting in a pass through (unless a thick area of the scapula is hit) and hopefully a dead deer.
Two: you hit the vertebral body itself. The outcome of this depends on the penetration capability of your arrow and broadhead. You could either damage/sever the spinal cord or the broad head could lodge in the vertebra. The first will drop the deer for good, the second may or may not drop the deer, most likely temporarily.
Three: you hit the spinous processes. This will also strike the blackstrap, which is attached to them. This does not cause spinal cord damage and may or may not drop the deer temporarily.
Four: you hit the scapula. This may or may not stop the arrow from penetrating to the lungs, and will probably not drop the deer, but may make it stumble or stagger. Penetration into one or both lungs is possible without a pass though.
There is actually anywhere between about three and as much as six inches between the top of the lungs/bottom of the vertebra and the top of the back line. This distance increases as you approach the shoulder from the backside of the deer.
I would bet that 95% of archery hits to the “void” that get minimal penetration are to areas two, three, and four.
It sucks, but is quite likely survivable for the deer.

Solid explanation. I know some of you use the gutless method, so you may never have had the pleasure, but the next time you gut an elk, stick your hand in the chest cavity. Feel the top of the cavity. You can feel individual vertebrae and ribs, right? That is the pleural cavity. The lungs have to fill it completely in order for the diaphragm to work. There's no room for an arrow to go under the spine without hitting lung.

I would add one other possible explanation to the above. Given that elk can run away with a leg shot off, I have no doubt that an elk can also take a high lung hit, spit some blood, laugh, and run off with a hemopnuemothorax that would kill a person on the spot.

QQ

 

[JDH]

That deer will be fine imo, but even if she’s not it was the type hit that will allow her to go so far that you’ll never find her. The real question I think you should be asking is “What’s wrong with my set up that would cause me to get such poor penetration?”
I’m not trying to start any kind of argument or open a different can of worms but this was a whitetail doe, not an elephant. There’s not much reason your arrow should’ve been stopped. You’re shooting a 65# bow with a very reliable proven broadhead. If you truly did not hit bone it should’ve passed completely through with no problem. If you hit bone, it should’ve at least broken it and done enough damage to get to the vitals and leave some blood or disrupt her spinal cord enough to drop her instantly. There a lot of nuts and bolts to unpack but now it seems time to figure out what part of the system failed. Arrow too light, Bow out of tune causing poor arrow flight, etc?

I had changed my setup years ago to get faster flight, flatter arrow trajectory for farther shooting, and it resulted in an arrow combo that was good for targets but might as well be hitting an armored tank if it only hit a even a small doe’s shoulder blade. After shooting several deer where things went bad I went back to drawing board, and figured out I had to beef up my setup. Not to say I’ll never have problems but I’ll say that kind of thing you’re describing is highly unlikely now.

I hope you have better luck ongoing! Weird things tend to happen with arrows sometimes that seem to leave a lot of questions unanswered. Hopefully it won’t happen again, and definitely don’t be afraid to change your setup looking for better penetration.

This a different part of the "set up" but form matters also. A few years ago I had a problem of hitting 2 deer high. I recovered both of them but through some testing I found out that being in a stand was the issue. I wasn't bending properly at the waist so I was hitting high.

 

[Flatbrimmer]

The actual spine is much lower than the top of the back especially in the area of the lungs. I think with the high "void" shots people are usually shooting over the spine and through the backstrap. Elk skeleton view should make that more apparent vs. the vitals drawing.

View attachment 294294

Nice dude good photo. Definitely helps clear it up. The void in discussion is not between the lungs and spine but rather spine and top of back… good illustration

 

[geewhiz]

The actual spine is much lower than the top of the back especially in the area of the lungs. I think with the high "void" shots people are usually shooting over the spine and through the backstrap. Elk skeleton view should make that more apparent vs. the vitals drawing.

View attachment 294294

I like this b/c it also shows that the shoulder blade is only barely covering the front portion of the lungs. All the time I hear guys say "would have got him but my arrow didnt penetrate the scapula". If you hit the scapula you didnt make a good shot anyway.

Also, just to make a point that I didnt see addressed. Just b/c an arrow hits the spine doesnt mean the animal will drop like a sack of crap. The spine is a tunnel of very heavy dense protective bone that surrounds the spinal cord which on a deer is only about 3/4 inch in diameter. The spinal cord must be severed to see your DRT result.

 

[Bhoesl]

Just wanted to report back to everyone. I saw what I believe to be the same deer about 2 weeks after the shot. As @sambo3006 and others suggested I believe the arrow went above the spine, as I could see a dark scar on her back just behind the shoulder and maybe a few inches below the top of the back. Still not sure what stopped the arrow or where/how she pulled it out but she appeared to be alive and well 2 weeks later… and will continue to be because my doe tag has already been filled on a different doe now.