Arizona draw changes

[WapitiBob]

A few of us have been discussing these for a few months now. With the draw closed and the suggestions in the meeting minutes, here you go.

R... 114; Note that only HALF the NR tag allotment will be available in the Bonus Pass draw.

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9. Request to approve the Article 1 Definitions and General Provisions Five-year Rule Review
Report, for Submission to the Governor's Regulatory Review Council (G.R.R.C.).

Presenter: Amber Munig, Big Game Management Supervisor

Ms. Munig provided a PowerPoint presentation to the Commission on the Five-year Rule
Review Report for Article 1 regarding definitions and general provisions, for submission to
G.R.R.C. A.R.S. § 41-1056 requires each state agency to review all of its rules at least once
every five years. The Article 1 Five-year Rule Review Report is due to G.R.R.C. by January 31,
2014. The Department presented an overview of the team's recommendations to the
Commission at the December 6, 2013 Commission Meeting. The Commission provided input,
which has been incorporated into the Department’s recommendations.


PLEASE NOTE ---> If approved by the Commission, the Department will submit the report to G.R.R.C. for their
review. Submission of this report will not change any of the Article 1 rules; however, if the
Department fails to submit the report by the established due date, the Commission’s Article 1
rules will expire and no longer be in effect or enforceable. In addition to the review criteria
prescribed under A.R.S. §41-1056, the Article 1 rule review team considered internal and external comments received during the previous five years, and processes that have changed since the last rulemaking.

For all rules, the team recommends amendments designed to ensure consistency between
Commission rules, Department processes, rule language/formatting, and to reduce the regulatory
burden where possible. In addition, the team proposes the following substantive amendments:


R12-4-101. Definitions

. Define the terms “bobcat seal” and "rooster" to clarify terms referenced in Commission
Order and increase consistency between rules and remove "by a particular hunt number"
from the definition of "hunt area" to address inholdings.


R12-4-104. Application Procedures for Issuance of Hunt Permit-tags by Drawing and Purchase
of Bonus Points

. Enable the Department to issue a license and award a bonus point when the payment
submitted is less than required, but covers application/license fees to address customer
comments received by the Department
. Prohibit a person who reached the established bag limit from applying for/purchasing
another hunt permit-tag during the same calendar year to increase consistency between
rules
. Stating overpayments of $1 or less will not be refunded and are considered a donation to
the Game and Fish Fund; the refund processing costs are greater than the a refund
. Define “Department error” as it applies to a rejected application and clarify when the
Department may issue a hunt permit-tag or award a bonus point in order to correct the
error to address customer comments received by the Department.


R12-4-106. Licensing Time-frames

. Add a time-frame for the use drugs on wildlife authorization, increase substantive review
time-frames for licenses that require an inspection, and allow the Department to deny an
incomplete license application when the information demonstrates the applicant is not
eligible for the license.


R12-4-107. Bonus Point System

. Replace the term "season" with "computer draw" to clarify bonus point application
requirements
. Enable the Department to issue a license and award a bonus/loyalty point (as applicable)
when the payment submitted is less than required, but covers application/license fees to
address customer comments received by the Department
. Enable the Department to remove any bonus point fraudulently obtained to increase
consistency between Commission rules
. Simplify the military member/bonus point reinstatement process to provide better
customer service to address customer comments received by the Department.


R12-4-108. Management Unit Boundaries

. Update game management units to provide additional clarity and maintain recreational
opportunities for the public; both hunters and outdoor recreationists to address April 2013
Commission action item.


R12-4-110. Posting and Access to State Land

. Replace “licensed hunters and fishermen” with “persons legally taking wildlife” to
address persons exempt from obtaining a license



. Indicate a license holder who is hunting, fishing, or trapping on state land shall not
operate motor vehicles off-road or on roads that are closed to the public, except to pick
up lawfully taken big game animals to increase consistency between Commission rules.


R12-4-114. Issuance of Nonpermit-tags and Hunt Permit-tags

. Remove descriptive language relating to tag features to provide the Department greater
flexibility in procuring nonpermit and hunt permit-tags

. Ensure at least one tag is available in the bonus point pass to provide a chance for
maximum bonus point applicants to be drawn to address customer comments received by
the Department.

Allow a person to possess the same number of hunt permit-tags as allowed for the bag
limit of that specific genus to address customer comments received by the Department.

. Prohibit a person who reached the bag limit for a specific genus from applying for a hunt
permit-tag or purchasing a nonpermit-tag during the same calendar year to increase
consistency between Commission rules

. Allow only 50% of the hunt permit-tags available to nonresidents to be issued in the
bonus pass of the draw. These changes are in response to customer comments received by
the Department

. Remove the 10% nonresident cap for javelina by hunt number to increase the odds for a
nonresident to draw a tag, provided the increase does not affect resident participation or
surpass the nonresident cap under A.R.S. § 17-332(A).


R12-4-115. Supplemental Hunts and Hunter Pool

. Define “companion tags” and allow Department to issue tags when the Commission
establishes the associated Commission Order to increase efficiency.


R12-4-116. Reward Payments

. Increase reward value for antelope, bald eagles, bighorn sheep, buffalo, elk, and any
wildlife listed as endangered or threatened wildlife from $350 to $450 and the reward
value for bear, deer, javelina, mountain lion, and turkey from $250 to $350. Reward
amounts were established in 1991 and have not changed since then.


The Commission discussed the tag surrender concept and was in consensus that this could
potentially be part of an enhanced application process through stage two of the license
simplification process. The Commission would like to see the tag surrender concept move
forward quickly, hopefully by next year this time, and also make sure it doesn’t get bogged down
and delayed in the general rulemaking cycle.


Director Voyles suggested that the authority for the Commission to have a tag surrender concept
could be created in the rulemaking process to allow the Commission to exercise their authority
within the fee structure. The Department needs to have some discussion and do some analytics
on the tag surrender concept as it relates to licensing and services, and bring that back to the
Commission.



Jennifer Stewart, Rules and Risk Branch Chief, reminded the Commission that a tag surrender
concept could be added later as we move through the Article 1 rulemaking process, and further
recommended that the tag surrender concept not be added to the Article 1 report at this time.


The Commission was in consensus.

The Commission discussed and was in consensus to raise the reward value for all big game and bald eagles to $500 across the board (R12-4-116. Reward Payments).

The Commission discussed a waiting period for a person that has been drawn for big game and were not in agreement.

Chairman Harris and Commissioner Mansell were not in favor of any waiting period except for a one year waiting period for youth only.


Commissioner Davis was in favor of a one year waiting period for bull elk and a one year
waiting period for youth, as well as removal of the 10% cap for nonresident javelina.


Motion: Davis moved and Madden seconded THAT THE COMMISSION VOTE TO DIRECT
THE DEPARTMENT TO BRING FORWARD A RULE PACKAGE THAT INCLUDES A
ONE YEAR WAIT ON BULL ELK AND A ONE YEAR WAIT ON YOUTH AND A
LIFTING OF THE NONRESIDENT CAP FOR JAVELINA.


Vote: Aye - Davis, Madden

Nay - Harris, Mansell

Failed 2 to 2


Motion: Harris moved and Mansell seconded THAT THE COMMISSION VOTE TO LIFT
THE NONRESIDENT CAP FOR JAVELINA AND TO APPROVE A ONE YEAR WAITING
PERIOD FOR YOUTH ONLY.

Commissioner Davis clarified with Chairman Harris that the motion was for the Department to bring back some language and evaluation of the impact of a potential one year waiting period for youth only, and that this was for the report only and not a determination to implement at this point.


Vote: Unanimous

4 to 0

Motion: Mansell moved and Madden seconded THAT THE COMMISSION VOTE TO
APPROVE THE ARTICLE 1 FIVE-YEAR REVIEW REPORT FOR SUBMISSION TO THE
GOVERNOR'S REGULATORY REVIEW COUNCIL AS PRESENTED AND DISCUSSED.

Vote: Unanimous

4 to 0

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[ERMINE]

R... 114; Note that only HALF the NR tag allotment will be available in the Bonus Pass draw.

This is exactly what I was told when I called and the reason I started applying for AZ is that I can actually draw a tag on NO BPoints!

Haha!

So you are saying there is a chance

 

[WapitiBob]

Current rules exclude 0 point applicants from the Bonus Pass but you are in the 1-2 Pass. If the new changes are approved you would have a better chance in that draw than you currently do.

 

[sagebrush]

". Ensure at least one tag is available in the bonus point pass to provide a chance for
maximum bonus point applicants to be drawn to address customer comments received by
the Department."

That means a resident that is not in the max point pool will never draw a sheep tag since the one tag units will now go from the random draw to the bonus point draw. Sucks for me and any resident that is not in the max point pool. One less application for me to submit each year.

 

[BuzzH]

The only thing more unfair than point systems is changing them every time some one complains...

People wonder why I'm fighting the Wyoming Resident PP proposals???

This is why.

 

[WapitiBob]

My opinion only; They're backed into a corner. They added a loyalty point to help break up the point pools, they added a hunter safety point to help break up the pools, and it's not working.

For 2013, early rifle had 4 NR tags in the 1-2 pass, early archery had 66. The NR consumer is becoming educated as to their bleak chances at a tag and when/if the new draw reports come out there won't be any hiding that fact. Amber is very aware of the limited number of NR pass thru tags as well as the effect this will have on the max point pools. I don't think it's a decision she took lightly. They had to make a change.

This change will obviously hurt a max pool applicant in the Bonus Pass draw because the available NR tags are getting halved.

On the other side, if that max pool applicant doesn't draw in the Bonus Pass, he will have a weighted advantage in the 1-2 Pass, where he previously had no chance because there were no NR tags in that draw.

If you're an applicant that is trying to draw a mid tier unit, 4-6, in the 1-2 Pass draw, your available tags just went up. If you want a chance at 1,3,8,9,10, and 27, you now have a chance where you previously had none.

 

[BuzzH]

WB,

I dont disagreee, but how is making more tags in the 1-2 pass available in the random going to break up point pools any faster?

It wont, it will only jam the top pools even longer and give those with lesser points a very, very slim chance at a few more tags.

Again, they're changing the system they "thought" they were fixing with the point system to start with, the system they "thought" they were fixing with loyalty points, the system they "thought" they were fixing with hunter ed point, the system they "thought" they were fixing with the 20% to highest point holders.

This will be another excercise in pissing up a rope with the only result being a handful of early rifle tags and strip tags to keep those that suck at statistics in the drawing game.

A few years down the road, those max point holders that are still jammed up will be asking for some other changes.

It never ends...

 

[Oak]

Ensure at least one tag is available in the bonus point pass to provide a chance for
maximum bonus point applicants to be drawn to address customer comments received by
the Department.

Can someone give me an example of when this doesn't happen?

What kind of "tag surrender" program are they considering? Like, get your points or money back for turning in a tag?

 

[BuzzH]

Resident sheep unit with only 1 available tag maybe????

I couldnt quite figure that out either.

 

[cfree]

As an AZ resident I am questioning the 1 year waiting period for youth only. What does that mean? They talk about hunter recruitment and retention and then tell the kids under 18 to wait a year after drawing a Kaibab doe tag? Maybe I am missing something but I don't understand the concept.

I think instead of the NR 50/50 split for the bonus pass round that AZ should be proactive and allocate 15% of tags to NR's.

I'll email the dept and see if I get a reply.

 

[Oak]

Resident sheep unit with only 1 available tag maybe????

I couldnt quite figure that out either.

I was thinking about sheep. That's the only circumstance I could think of.

 

[WapitiBob]

Buzz, I can't disagree.

 

[drthornton]

Thanks for the update Bob.

Sounds like a good thing to me. I may be singing a different tune if I was sitting on 18-20 Elk points.

It will be interesting to see if and how this shakes out.

 

[Devil Diver Down]

I don't like changing things mid-stream - and any change was going to be mid-stream after they went down the bonus point path - because further changes are likely going to have ramifications beyond what they (poorly) planned in the first place. One issue with the former method was that a lot of guys had zero idea they were eliminated from drawing a tag before the draw began - that's their mistake for not doing due diligence, but a pretty expensive mistake if you don't know what you don't know.

I don't have an issue with the 1 year wait period for youths - I think it could help hunter R&R, not hurt it. If they're waiting that means they drew the year before. Some kids were drawing every year and others lost interest after never drawing.

 

[BOHNTR]

I would have liked to see them go back to their original system when they implemented it years ago. Earn a BP if you're not successful in the draw. That's it. No special pass for those with highest amount of points, etc., etc. The more points earned, the higher your chances are of drawing; and one could draw a trophy unit tag with zero points as well.

 

[1_pointer]

I would have liked to see them go back to their original system when they implemented it years ago. Earn a BP if you're not successful in the draw. That's it. No special pass for those with highest amount of points, etc., etc. The more points earned, the higher your chances are of drawing; and one could draw a trophy unit tag with zero points as well.

I agree! IMO, ID and NM still have the 'fairest' systems.

 

[Zim]

Keep in mind for all us AZ high point holders (I have as many as 18), the 20% pass rule was implemented long after we bought into the draw system. So it was a huge benefit that kicked in much later. Even this new proposal is better for top point holders than the original, as there will still be 50% basically preference tags. There were none when we bought in. So really nobody should be biatching about this. Just mending an inequity for all those buying in later. The main thing is the % of NR tags should still be about the same ~10%. It's a world away from SFW stealing NR tags to auction away and line DP's pockets! That is an "everyone loses" scenario.

 

[dmandoes]

do yourself a favor and look at the thread on bowsite.