Application futility

[Deleted member 18333]

Among the continuum of concerns an NR could or should have, this is a bizarre hill to die on.

It’s a weird hill to even walk up, let alone die on. To each their own I suppose.

 

[Derek44]

It’s a weird hill to even walk up, let alone die on. To each their own I suppose.

And not sure about other states, but WY does give lots of buyers remorse time to modify or withdraw apps

 

[WildWill]

 

[rogerthat]

I understand that. I wasn’t talking about just GoHunt. There are several companies out there that are more than happy to take peoples money, not just for guidance either, they’ll take full control of your application process. I personally wish they weren’t utilized and didn’t exist. To each their own

My comment was agreeing with you. I think as opportunities become less and less the draw services become less needed or struggle to even provide any value. Like wyo msg if you don’t have a bunch of points than your units are pretty much discerned from 15 minutes of research on their own

 

[Trap]

i mean just take it to a silly hypothetical extreme: what if someone told you "you can buy a rather solid 200 dollar elk tag every year and hunt or you can put 200 dollars down every year for a chance to hunt a moose and realistically you'll never draw it" and those were your only choices for hunting in life, period. what would you do?

it's kinda how i look at NR MSG draws. that non refundable money can get me hunts i can i do now, or can go towards hunts that i have real odds of drawing, so that's how i'm gonna spend the money.

hunting MSG sure would be fun if i get to do it in colorado someday, but i'm not gonna hold my breath. and in the meantime i'm gonna focus my money on actually going hunting instead of hoping to go hunting.

but i mean that's still the point, everyone has certain budgets and life circumstances. for a budget to work you then need priorities. doesn't matter if it's $200; $5,000; or $50,000 a year you have to spend on hunting, some things get prioritized and others don't to make that allotted money work for your plans.

me? since i don't have an unlimited budget and am starting to raise a family, there are countless things i can do now and next year and the year after with the money i'd lose applying for NR MSG tags i'll realistically never draw. just not a good use of money when money is not unlimited IMO.

and maybe i just care less about MSG hunting than the average person. i dunno

You’re right I think. I have shot 2 moose and 1 sheep( mt unlimited tag). I can get enough tags just in my home state to hunt year around. Deer,elk,lion,bear, wolf,turkey and waterfowl. Coyotes and bobcats and trapping that’s practically a full time job ha ha. There was a time applying in multiple western states actually made sense, that time has passed. Too much information available and too many people pushing application strategies and on and on. They have convinced everyone running spreadsheets and getting addicted to gambling on the draws is hunting. It’s not hunting for me hunting is spending my time in the woods actually hunting with friends and family. Good for the hunters that got into the draw system early but it’s pretty much a Ponzi scheme now. I get 3 emails a week on different draws from companies I haven’t even subscribed to. Everyone trying to make a buck off western wildlife. They broke the draw systems but need to get more hunters into them to support their businesses. Most hunters are better off hunting their backyard and maybe picking 1 other state for draws I think.

 

[Zim]

I checked my records, 223.38 nonrefundable for sheep.

Unless trapped, I don't know why anybody would buy into most point systems any more, knowing it's not a matter IF they will "change" the system and screw you, but WHEN. And they all increase the nonrefundable fees regularly these days too. You really have no clue what you are buying into. It's a losing battle. I've got 17 sheep points in CO and refuse to dump another $100 nonrefundable for a point, much less $223 in WY. No thank you. They have all become greedy bastards when they are in fact supposed to be distributing public resources to the tax paying public. Not stealing from them.

Ethics is a word for previous generations. Not the one we live in.

 

[WapitiBob]

Unless trapped, I don't know why anybody would buy into most point systems any more, knowing it's not a matter IF they will "change" the system and screw you, but WHEN. And they all increase the nonrefundable fees regularly these days too. You really have no clue what you are buying into. It's a losing battle. I've got 17 sheep points in CO and refuse to dump another $100 nonrefundable for a point, much less $223 in WY. No thank you. They have all become greedy bastards when they are in fact supposed to be distributing public resources to the tax paying public. Not stealing from them.

Ethics is a word for previous generations. Not the one we live in.

WY non refundable Sheep app fees aren't $223, or even close to it.

 

[Zim]

WY non refundable Sheep app fees aren't $223, or even close to it.

Name the amount. My point remains the same.

 

[mdhunter]

Lots of opinions on this thread and many are at least partially correct imho. After 16 years of applying in many western states, I am of the opinion shared by Buzz and Big Fin. Gather points for some critters if you want, however a tag in your pocket is far more fun than banging a keyboard about the unfairness of the process.

Do a little extra homework before hitting the send button. Don’t apply for a NR tag where they don’t exist.

Point creep is real everywhere. I drew a four point unit for WY archery elk that I can’t redraw with 10 points today. I found another unit and I think I will draw that tag this year. Hunting beats hoping everyday for me.

Sheep, moose, etc is just the biggest bonus ever if you get a tag as a NR. They are OIL hunts for a reason.

Good luck everyone.

 

[LuketheDog]

I have the history of the 2009-2012 downturn in my spreadsheets for each state. Not sure if that is a reliable predictor of what would happen today. Based on that time period, folks switched to buying points to keep their place in line. The ratio of point buyers-to-applicants increased. When things rebounded, the ratio went the other direction, though not to the ratio before the downturn. States still sold every non-resident tag and there was the same number of people buying licenses/points to keep their place in line, as evidenced by the number of double digit point holders in CO, AZ, NV, UT, and WY.

Not sure if that 2009-2012 data would be applicable to a downturn now, but I suspect it would to some degree.

Colorado's point pool/creep was compounded by CPW dropping the upfront charge for tags right about the end of that downturn as well, no? Is that a noticeable change in your data?

 

[Mallardsx2]

Colorado's point pool/creep was compounded by CPW dropping the upfront charge for tags right about the end of that downturn as well, no? Is that a noticeable change in your data?

This was a major turning point in Colorado. For sure.

 

[ImBillT]

but i mean that's still the point, everyone has certain budgets and life circumstances. for a budget to work you then need priorities. doesn't matter if it's $200; $5,000; or $50,000 a year you have to spend on hunting, some things get prioritized and others don't to make that allotted money work for your plans.

me? since i don't have an unlimited budget and am starting to raise a family, there are countless things i can do now and next year and the year after with the money i'd lose applying for NR MSG tags i'll realistically never draw. just not a good use of money when money is not unlimited IMO.

and maybe i just care less about MSG hunting than the average person. i dunno

Some people don’t listen to reason. Some people care more about funding their state game department than acknowledging the logic behind the application strategy of others. Some people can’t imagine having less income than they do, and thus can’t imagine why $200 is a big deal for some people. Can I find an extra $200 in the budget? “Yes” Would it go to WY sheep. Still “no”. If I had 10X the hunting budget that I currently have, would I apply for WY sheep? Probably.

I’m with you. My application budget is limited. The facts are that for the price of applying for sheep in WY I can apply for sheep in FIVE other states with money left over. If I could afford to put in for every species in every state, then I might. Since I can’t, and since I’ll likely never draw a sheep even if I did, I’d rather make sure that I get one out of state deer hunt and one out of state elk hunt every year. That just makes sense to me.

 

[Zim]

Lots of opinions on this thread and many are at least partially correct imho. After 16 years of applying in many western states, I am of the opinion shared by Buzz and Big Fin. Gather points for some critters if you want, however a tag in your pocket is far more fun than banging a keyboard about the unfairness of the process.

Someone needs to educate and warn newbies what they are getting themselves into. There are too many publications out there singing the battle cry "apply, apply, apply". Publications whose entire existence depends on a steady influx of fresh blood buying subscriptions. It's not in their financial interest to inform clients about the rampant bait-n-switch history of this game. And far easier to get them hooked on gambling, despite terrible odds.

 

[Trap]

Someone needs to educate and warn newbies what they are getting themselves into. There are too many publications out there singing the battle cry "apply, apply, apply". Publications whose entire existence depends on a steady influx of fresh blood buying subscriptions. It's not in their financial interest to inform clients about the rampant bait-n-switch history of this game. And far easier to get them hooked on gambling, despite terrible odds.

This 100% . But who’s going to do it? Not the “hunting industry” players.

 

[Mallardsx2]

This 100% . But who’s going to do it? Not the “hunting industry” players.

FACT.

 

[TheTone]

This 100% . But who’s going to do it? Not the “hunting industry” players.

As long as they have access to landowner tags, auction tags, and other ways to skirt the system what do they care

 

[Trap]

As long as they have access to landowner tags, auction tags, and other ways to skirt the system what do they care

They don’t and they want to keep getting people into the draws to support their businesses.

 

[mdhunter]

Its a simple case of supply and demand. More and more people want to have the opportunity hunt out west. The genie is out of the bottle on how to apply so regardless if we like it or not, more people are going to apply. All of us NR hunters just need to understand the new playing field and adjust our applications and expectations to fit the new mold.

 

[Bluffgruff]

I really want the wyoming area 5 nonresident random sheep tag winner to post here tomorrow.