Anyone read the newspaper today?

[Lawnboy]

My opinion was if they were going to trade out of this piece of land that they would trade for ground elsewhere on the ranch that currently had access by the public. I can think of many areas in and on the N bar in which this could happen. (BLM chunk that the Tyler Rd. intersects and then ranch land to the west) comes to mind.

They would be able to consolodate this land locked parcel but in turn would give us equal acreage. Having hunted up there and then seen other areas of the ranch I am of the opinion that there are even better areas to hunt than up there. This place is Mecca lets be honest. Just about can't go wrong hunting any stretch of land on that ranch.

I'm not sure of their motives but in all honestly if I had the money I would of snatched that land up in a second as well. What an awesome place. Can't think of any other ranches in montana with the variety of animals that this place has.

Since I won't ever have enough money to buy a place like this I can only hope that maybe Sweetnectar's daughter will take a liking to one of my boys........Na she could do better.

 

[belly-deep]

You don't get rich being stupid. You find ways to benefit everyone.

You get rich by learning how to game the public/government, no?

I don't know the area, so I can't really say for sure.

What I will say from reading posts by wingman and BigFin is that this spot seems pretty special.

Just north of there we have this giant mass of public land that is world famous for its opportunities at big bulls (the breaks). And yet the masses continually make the hunting quite frustrating. Adding a few vehicle-accessible acres in this area would in effect be like adding a few acres to the breaks. Big deal. It would just become another spot that is full of beer cans, ATV tracks, and 6 groups of hunters sneaking in on every herd of elk. We've already got plenty of that, IMO.

Point is, there is something cool about this place. We've got plenty of vehicle accessible land in draw units. Leave this one alone. Makes for a cool story.

 

[CabinFever]

Since I won't ever have enough money to buy a place like this I can only hope that maybe Sweetnectar's daughter will take a liking to one of my boys........Na she could do better.

An arranged marriage?

 

[BuzzH]

belly-deep,

That may be the case and I tend to agree.

But, the reason I'm not sure I'd be inclined to fight for a piece of property like that is because I wonder how much belly-aching, whining, and more importantly how much fighting, wingman would do about other areas he doesnt hunt that face similar problems? Life isnt fair and paybacks are a bitch.

I know Bigfin looks out for everyone, looks out for wildlife, and not just his own self-interests...others I know they dont. They suddenly become involved and concerned when THEIR ox is being gored...but they dont care any other time. Frankly, I'm over it. Dont ask me to help you out when I'm not extended the same courtesy.

I think if the hunting public/blm plays this thing smartly, they can acquire 2-1 or even 3-1 in acreage on deals like this. Been there, seen it done by the State of Montana...and at the expense of the largest private land owner in the U.S.

 

[whyelkhunt]

Hell, don't be afraid to say it. That shouldn't offend anyone.

As much as I have enjoyed hunting this piece, if the public could get a better deal, the deal should be taken. The big question always being, will the public get a better deal than what currently exists.

Not just in terms of access, but game abundance, type of wildlife, etc. When all is considered, I can think of many places these guys could purchase and trade to the public that would be a far better piece of land for the public to own.

Can think of a few that are worse and would surely be shot down by the public.

As Theodore Roosevelt would say, "The greatest good for the greatest number." Seems to apply when talking about public lands and land trades.

To your question - I am interested on what people think about this, what would be the positives of keeping the isolated chunk that would be good for hunters as a whole?

It seems one could easily argue that an isolated chunk of premium ground in a limited entry unit that has world class elk hunting, even if only hunted by 20-40 hunters per year, is more valuable than an accessible piece of ground that is lacking in habitat and game. Even if I never hunt it again, I would not want it traded for some accessible wasteland that has very little hunting values.

I have a suspicion that as more people are finding out about it and flying in there by their personal airplanes, or via air charters, that makes the desire for these guys to acquire it even higher. The higher the demand to acquire, seems the greater the value to be obtained in a land exchange. Or, so I hope is the case if the BLM starts in a negotiation with them.

So, to answer your question, I could make a case to not trade it, if the trade bait is junk. And just the same, I could easily make a case that the BLM should trade it if the trade bait is good, especially if it provides access to a bunch more public ground that is currently inaccessible.

This is why I like this site. it makes you think, sometimes. What does it take to draw this tag?

 

[Lawnboy]

I think if the hunting public/blm plays this thing smartly, they can acquire 2-1 or even 3-1 in acreage on deals like this. Been there, seen it done by the State of Montana...and at the expense of the largest private land owner in the U.S.

I think you are right. If they really want this piece they should be willing give up a good amount elsewhere but like I said why not exchange for equal amounts on the same ranch with equally as good hunting that is already connected to accessable Blm?

Like Bellydeep said though you would have every hunter from Billings hunting that piece of land and soon they would make a neat parcel look like the Rimrock Mall on a Saturday.

My fear is they will cave and accept not so great of a deal.

 

[BuzzH]

lawnboy,

I totally agree that the land swap should happen on the same ranch. Make it a place where access would be tough and require walk-in only hunting (no atv's, no horses, no airplanes, helicopters, etc.).

I also agree that they should push for the best deal they could get.

 

[havnaro]

maybe we are looking at this backwards?

What if the blm traded some of their other land joining the n-bar, pronghorn, or other wilks land in the area, to consolidate a different area, in exchange for more land joining the fly-in piece. what about land for walk in access? what about the section at the end of the little snowies road that would connect this no access piece, to the forest service land. Let's face it fellas, the days of driving around and shooting big bucks or bulls on public land had it's hey-day when my grandpa was doing it. I am all for protecting the hard to get to areas that keeps the lazy ones away. If we were to trade the (guessing) 1500 acres of no access land for 3000 acres of road accessible land with the greatest hunting in all of Montana, it would be hunted out in it's first season and you and I would be standing on it looking over the fence at the elk on the n-bar wondering why we gave up the oppertunity we had.

 

[wingman1]

What if the blm traded some of their other land joining the n-bar, pronghorn, or other wilks land in the area, to consolidate a different area, in exchange for more land joining the fly-in piece. what about land for walk in access? what about the section at the end of the little snowies road that would connect this no access piece, to the forest service land. Let's face it fellas, the days of driving around and shooting big bucks or bulls on public land had it's hey-day when my grandpa was doing it. I am all for protecting the hard to get to areas that keeps the lazy ones away. If we were to trade the (guessing) 1500 acres of no access land for 3000 acres of road accessible land with the greatest hunting in all of Montana, it would be hunted out in it's first season and you and I would be standing on it looking over the fence at the elk on the n-bar wondering why we gave up the oppertunity we had.

Your idea is exactly what I was thinking. Trade the Tyler piece for the two private sections between the small section and forest service and the section between the small and large blm. This would make one huge walk in area! I guarantee Wilks would laugh at us though.

The problem is having public accessible land right in the middle of there fortune is stinking up thier paradise.

 

[MThuntr]

What if the blm traded some of their other land joining the n-bar, pronghorn, or other wilks land in the area, to consolidate a different area, in exchange for more land joining the fly-in piece. what about land for walk in access? what about the section at the end of the little snowies road that would connect this no access piece, to the forest service land.

It is my understanding that this particular property has been sold recently to none other than the Wilks Brothers (this is still just a rumor). I heard they already have the place marked up with N Bar signs. Since I haven't seen this yet for myself, I'm going to see if I can make it down there tonight before dark to prove/disprove.

 

[mconway951]

I know i am not a resident out there but i hope like hell they know what they are doing i deal with mil and bil clients all the time and in my experience they are usually not out to try and help out the public...just a thought.

 

[shoots-straight]

It is my understanding that this particular property has been sold recently to none other than the Wilks Brothers (this is still just a rumor). I heard they already have the place marked up with N Bar signs. Since I haven't seen this yet for myself, I'm going to see if I can make it down there tonight before dark to prove/disprove.

I think that post number 1 and 2 cleared that up.

 

[mdunc8]

I don't know much about the situation or the country involved in the discussion, but my buddy in Lewistown mentioned that they're letting local school kids on to shoot cows. Seems like a good start.

 

[Stubaby]

Lawnboy, why do you need the kids to marry? You are there more than nectar anyway. Last I heard Dave gave you a gate key and said "have at it". : ). Just teasin!!!!

I like these isolated chunks of public land. If they were to swap land they better make it hard to access. By that I mean not have a road going right through the middle. That Yellowstone River State Park by Pompei Pillar was good for about 2 weeks. Then they put a road right through the middle of it. What a joke. You have to make these areas so that people need to put a little effort to get to. That or make it primitive weapon only. I know guys get mad about the weapon thing but it would be cool to have an archery only area to go blow stalks on big bucks and bulls.

Public land seems to have better hunting when guys have to actually get off thier truck seat to get there.

 

[wingman1]

I think the main objective is being overlooked here. No one has said the Wilks are bad people.
I think whether or not they are liked is irrelevant. What should be realized is they want this chunk of public land. And it will be a huge loss to the american people if they get it. If they trade it for something on the border of the ranch it will be just like the rest of the outside border (void of elk).

 

[shoots-straight]

I think the main objective is being overlooked here. No one has said the Wilks are bad people.
I think whether or not they are liked is irrelevant. What should be realized is they want this chunk of public land. And it will be a huge loss to the american people if they get it. If they trade it for something on the border of the ranch it will be just like the rest of the outside border (void of elk).

Do we know they intend to pursue a land exchange for sure?

 

[Oak]

Do we know they intend to pursue a land exchange for sure?

I would assume there is some truth to it, given that "wheelieking" was on here talking about it in September?

 

[Devil Diver Down]

This is a tough one. Landlocked, inaccessible land - and that's really what this piece is, since most cannot do a $700 fly in, whereas most people can walk to accessible land if need be - is essentially worthless to the public as a whole. Not to the individuals who make or have made use of it, of course. But that's a pretty small number I imagine, compared to the number of tax payers that help provide the funds for upkeep, etc.

At the same time, turning it over for Billy Quadrider to cut tracks through doesn't seem to make much sense either. Making it a special permit hunt, no motor vehicle area, would at least limit the hunting pressure the animals saw - they could run off the landlocked piece to private (and seems they do) - just as easy as one outside the borders. If the state could get a sweet deal (3:1) as Buzz suggested, and could keep some of the wild to it, it might be a win for a bigger group of folks.

 

[wingman1]

Do we know they intend to pursue a land exchange for sure?

If you ask BLM, they will tell you there hasnt been any proposal yet. But as rumor has it alot has been discussed and I think they are trying get a feel for any opposition right now.

 

[wingman1]

This is a tough one. Landlocked, inaccessible land - and that's really what this piece is, since most cannot do a $700 fly in, whereas most people can walk to accessible land if need be - is essentially worthless to the public as a whole. Not to the individuals who make or have made use of it, of course. But that's a pretty small number I imagine, compared to the number of tax payers that help provide the funds for upkeep, etc.

At the same time, turning it over for Billy Quadrider to cut tracks through doesn't seem to make much sense either. Making it a special permit hunt, no motor vehicle area, would at least limit the hunting pressure the animals saw - they could run off the landlocked piece to private (and seems they do) - just as easy as one outside the borders. If the state could get a sweet deal (3:1) as Buzz suggested, and could keep some of the wild to it, it might be a win for a bigger group of folks.

700.00 dollars is a pair of hunting boots and a pair of Sitka hunting pants?
There is a commercial operators permit for this unit to charter hunters. I dont think it qualifies as inaccessible.