Another "is this bullet good enough for that?" thread.....

[longbow51]

Go with a different outfitter. Any whiff of something odd like this means something is off. There are horror stories out there. You shoot the rifle well, are confident of the load, and that's the important thing.

 

[EastTNHunter]

Only been on 1 guided elk hunt, and was successful on a 5x5 bull using a 30-06 and 165 TTSX hand loads . My plan was to use hand loaded 180 NABs, but the scope on that rifle crapped out just before the hunt and I used the other. The bull didn’t know the difference.

Guide had a minimum “requirement” of bullet weights for each rifle cartridge (with a minimum of 270 Winchester, btw), but I don’t think that I fell within them (I think that he required a 180gr for 30-06, oops!). His main concern was that many hunters had shown up with the long-range, high-expansion bullets in various cartridges that did not penetrate and often left shallow wound channels, especially on the sub-150yd shots that were common to that area. He also didn’t like shoulder shots for this reason. He somewhat understood bullet construction, but not properly. He only knew that some more modern, high velocity, lightly constructed rounds did not perform properly in the past and was doing his best to be fair to the game, and to give the hunter as high of a recovery rate as possible. And he had MANY city slickers or (insert generic stereotype label here) that understood even less than he did who did questionable things. Very positive experience with the outfitter/guide, but he was definitely old-school in his thinking on bullet performance like yours seems to be.

BTW, the Hornady Interlock tends to be a pretty tough bullet for a standard cc bullet. They hold their core and weight pretty consistently. I’m developing a load for the same bullet in my .270 now, and would not hesitate to use it in an elk provided that the shot location and angles were appropriate

 

[OntarioHunter]

My experience with those Hornady bullets is limited to two animals last year using 165 gr 30-06. Did very poorly on the hartebeest but no fault of the bullets. Fresh bedding glass shrank and action was loose. Bad shot placement. I switched to my PH's 270 WSM after that. Then back in Montana after fixing the bedding I shot a mule deer buck offhand at 200 yards. One shot and dead by the time he rolled to the bottom of the coulee. Exit made a bit of a mess high on opposite shoulder but not bad for plowing through vertebrate. These bullets group better than expensive Berger mono of same weight using same powder load.

 

[nhenry]

They'll do fine, but you also don't wanna piss off your guide. Lotsa people have anecdotal stuff on lots of different things, but I doubt the elk could tell the difference. Did you happen to try a 160gr Partition though?

 

[bullbugle307]

Go with a different outfitter. Any whiff of something odd like this means something is off. There are horror stories out there. You shoot the rifle well, are confident of the load, and that's the important thing.

Those horror stories go both ways...I guided just a little, but it was plenty enough to realize you can't trust a client's word on whether they're in shape, can shoot, have a trigger job that's not overly light and unsafe...etc.

I'm NOT saying this is the case here. And I wouldn't split hairs on 10 grains, but I think a little interjection of balance was in order. Guides and outfitters put up with a lot of nonsense from their clients, and it gets tiring over the course of a season. I don't think many clients understand that.

 

[Browning55]

To offer some perspective. The outfitter has a lot on the line potentially. In addition you don't know why he made that rule. I personally like it. I do not recommend and strongly advise against anything less than a .270 on the hunts I run with clients. I don't outlaw it but I strongly advise against and even say I personally recommend a 30 cal with a well constructed bullet if it were my opinion when asked. I have even said no once to a 6.5 creedmore

You may ask why and the reason is I want both the client and myself/ the guide to be successful. In addition, on of the properties we guide on, I know that if we wound an animal and it leaves the property the chances we can recover it are slim to none and will cause headaches for the operation. Couple that with a one blood rule, its a tough conversation to have with a client when they wound an elk, don't have a good blood trail or make a poor shot after they spent all that money on a hunt and now its over. the 30 cal adds a little more margin for error in my opinion. Especially when it comes to blood trailing. To add to that as well, having a longer range.. a heavier bullet etc that a higher caliber offers will also allow the guide to put you in more opportunities given you ability.

I know a perfectly placed shot is most important but 9/10 people over inflate their abilities or just plain simply "shit" happens. This includes me as well (I over estimated my ability this year and just plain missed at 450+)... I know a 270 can get it done but i would rather just stack everything in my favor to bring home my elk. I always ask the client to be 100% honest about their ability so that we can game plan for you. That is a double edged sword though too as it could limit where I take you.

I personally dont recommend a .270 on anything outside 300 yards. Ask yourself and the outfitter what is the typical yardage where you are hunting? all of this will play into why there is a minimum caliber/bullet recommendation by the outfitter.

 

[OntarioHunter]

To offer some perspective. The outfitter has a lot on the line potentially. In addition you don't know why he made that rule. I personally like it. I do not recommend and strongly advise against anything less than a .270 on the hunts I run with clients. I don't outlaw it but I strongly advise against and even say I personally recommend a 30 cal with a well constructed bullet if it were my opinion when asked. I have even said no once to a 6.5 creedmore

You may ask why and the reason is I want both the client and myself/ the guide to be successful. In addition, on of the properties we guide on, I know that if we wound an animal and it leaves the property the chances we can recover it are slim to none and will cause headaches for the operation. Couple that with a one blood rule, its a tough conversation to have with a client when they wound an elk, don't have a good blood trail or make a poor shot after they spent all that money on a hunt and now its over. the 30 cal adds a little more margin for error in my opinion. Especially when it comes to blood trailing. To add to that as well, having a longer range.. a heavier bullet etc that a higher caliber offers will also allow the guide to put you in more opportunities given you ability.

I know a perfectly placed shot is most important but 9/10 people over inflate their abilities or just plain simply "shit" happens. This includes me as well... I know a 270 can get it done but i would rather just stack everything in my favor to bring home my elk. I always ask the client to be 100% honest about their ability so that we can game plan for you. That is a double edged sword though too as it could limit where I take you.

I personally dont recommend a .270 on anything outside 300 yards. Ask yourself and the outfitter what is the typical yardage where you are hunting? all of this will play into why there is a minimum caliber/bullet recommendation by the outfitter.

I agree. Back in the day I was a tracker mostly and of thirteen elk (in thirteen years) only one required shots over 200 yards (the rest were under 100). I shot cup and core 180s out of my 06 in those days and a couple of times it was barely enough to bring down elk or moose even at those close ranges. Bullets are different now and I would prefer 165 Partitions but don't have a magic wand to make some appear on the shelves. Lucky to find a couple boxes of 165 Hornady cup & core and I'll probably have to make do with those in Africa this August. If a very long shot is it (and for Barbary sheep may very well be it), then I'll borrow my PH's 270 WSM. Not sure what weight bullets he's loading but one of them did the job on my elk size kudu at 440 yards last year (not dead on the spot but it didn't go far). Didn't mess it up either. In the boiler room and no exit. I finished it with a neck shot at close range using borrowed 30-06 and Berger bullet I think. The exit hole in the cape is almost same size as entrance and broke its neck. That 270 magnum did the job but at that distance only just barely. I think a 300 mag would have put him right down.

 

[LostTexican]

They'll do fine, but you also don't wanna piss off your guide. Lotsa people have anecdotal stuff on lots of different things, but I doubt the elk could tell the difference. Did you happen to try a 160gr Partition though?

I wouldn't mind giving the heavier 160gr partition a try, just tough to find at the moment.

 

[LostTexican]

To offer some perspective. The outfitter has a lot on the line potentially. In addition you don't know why he made that rule. I personally like it. I do not recommend and strongly advise against anything less than a .270 on the hunts I run with clients. I don't outlaw it but I strongly advise against and even say I personally recommend a 30 cal with a well constructed bullet if it were my opinion when asked. I have even said no once to a 6.5 creedmore

You may ask why and the reason is I want both the client and myself/ the guide to be successful. In addition, on of the properties we guide on, I know that if we wound an animal and it leaves the property the chances we can recover it are slim to none and will cause headaches for the operation. Couple that with a one blood rule, its a tough conversation to have with a client when they wound an elk, don't have a good blood trail or make a poor shot after they spent all that money on a hunt and now its over. the 30 cal adds a little more margin for error in my opinion. Especially when it comes to blood trailing. To add to that as well, having a longer range.. a heavier bullet etc that a higher caliber offers will also allow the guide to put you in more opportunities given you ability.

I know a perfectly placed shot is most important but 9/10 people over inflate their abilities or just plain simply "shit" happens. This includes me as well (I over estimated my ability this year and just plain missed at 450+)... I know a 270 can get it done but i would rather just stack everything in my favor to bring home my elk. I always ask the client to be 100% honest about their ability so that we can game plan for you. That is a double edged sword though too as it could limit where I take you.

I personally dont recommend a .270 on anything outside 300 yards. Ask yourself and the outfitter what is the typical yardage where you are hunting? all of this will play into why there is a minimum caliber/bullet recommendation by the outfitter.

I don't disagree with the outfitter in terms of his rules being to be there provide me the best hunt and outcome. It's just tough to find components right now and if I found it, hoping it works out to be as accurate is a headache.

I have two rifles that I think are adequate for big game; this 270 and a 45-70. I know the 45-70 will work but that set up is a 200 yard gun, not because of the potency but because my scope runs out of adjustment to go from my 100 yard zero out to 200(still shoots 3-4" at 200). I am not the type of guy to take a long poke at any animal under any conditions, not from lack of skill, just don't gamble with life. I could ask if he would prefer that rifle to come out with me but in his contract packet stated shot opportunities to be in excess of 200 yards.

 

[Browning55]

I don't disagree with the outfitter in terms of his rules being to be there provide me the best hunt and outcome. It's just tough to find components right now and if I found it, hoping it works out to be as accurate is a headache.

I have two rifles that I think are adequate for big game; this 270 and a 45-70. I know the 45-70 will work but that set up is a 200 yard gun, not because of the potency but because my scope runs out of adjustment to go from my 100 yard zero out to 200(still shoots 3-4" at 200). I am not the type of guy to take a long poke at any animal under any conditions, not from lack of skill, just don't gamble with life. I could ask if he would prefer that rifle to come out with me but in his contract packet stated shot opportunities to be in excess of 200 yards.

Yeah unfortunately that seems to be everywhere I went into my local cabelas and it seems like all they have these days is common stuff. They had 223 and 308 out the rear. Good luck finding anything 300win. Def a tough boat and the recommendations to just up and change your bullet don’t really account for the ammo craze.

 

[LostTexican]

Yeah unfortunately that seems to be everywhere I went into my local cabelas and it seems like all they have these days is common stuff. They had 223 and 308 out the rear. Good luck finding anything 300win. Def a tough boat and the recommendations to just up and change your bullet don’t really account for the ammo craze.

I dug my heels in and ordered 300 140gr interlocks and 8lbs of V100 and primers....I figured it would last me the rest of my hunting days. Probably will. I ordered some 150gr partitions, going to give them one more try.

 

[Islander]

Yeah unfortunately that seems to be everywhere I went into my local cabelas and it seems like all they have these days is common stuff. They had 223 and 308 out the rear. Good luck finding anything 300win. Def a tough boat and the recommendations to just up and change your bullet don’t really account for the ammo craze.

You can get 300 WM from Norma right now. Pretty good stuff.

 

[Browning55]

You can get 300 WM from Norma right now. Pretty good stuff.

My current set up for 300win is a hand load that has been pretty money for my xbolt. Fortunately for me I have enough to carry my through a long time.

Norma brass
Fed 215m
66.4g IMR 4451
Nosler ABLR 190

 

[thusby]

Honestly, you should be shooting a 416 Rigby….

 

[LostTexican]

Honestly, you should be shooting a 416 Rigby….

lol that might not be enough, I could borrow an M107A1 from a close friend....in fact he's one of the guys that goes west with me every year.

 

[Brian in Montana]

Somebody else mentioned it, but my guess is you outfitter has probably had a few clients show up a 6.5CM and explosive long range bullets, copying something they saw on YouTube. I wouldn't worry about him, myself.

As to the Interlocks, my wife and I (and daughter) have killed a pile of game with them. My wife's .270 shoots the heck out of 140gn BTSPs, never shot an elk with it, but I wouldn't have any trepidation about it. Darn good bullet. I killed one elk it an Interlock, but that was out of a 300WM. Still, did exactly what they're designed to do - penetrate and expand without flying apart.

If you're concerned about it, you might just have a conversation with the outfitter, let him know you're .270 really likes the bullet, etc. He might explain his reasoning and it might make perfect sense. I talked with an outfitter in Helena a couple weeks ago that partners with his brother; he told me it's happened more than once that they get some wealthy guy from out of state who has literally never hunted, or even shot a gun, but booked a hunt and went and bought some high-dollar setup and hadn't even zeroed it when he got there. I'm not an outfitter, never worked in that field, but I can imagine they run into all kinds of things and clients everywhere on the spectrum of experience and knowledge, or lack thereof.

 

[Cornbread]

The guid just doesn't want you to shoot one in the ass and have it limp off, LOLOLOL. "Youre done!!"

 

[isu22andy]

Some guides are dipshits. Just change the box and go .

 

[Don Fischer]

I have an a** hol, I mean opinion. Not based on ever shooting anything with a 270 but I did own one once. If you take a 270 100gr load and shoot an elk in the brain with it, it will be about as dead as it can get. You take the same 270 but loaded with a 130gr bullet and place it in the chest behind the front leg and destroy the lungs or heart and the elk will be about as dead as the one shot with the 100gr bullet. Then you could go to a heavier bullet, say a 160gr and shoot the elk through the shoulder and it will be about as dead also! The difference will be nothing more than the size of the target and the range at which you may have to make the shot. The 270 I owned got stolen before I ever hunted with it and the only reason, I ever bought it was it was a Harrington-Richardson Ultra 300 made on a Sako L61 action.

The outfitter requiring a certain min cartridge is well within his rights, but I wouldn't use him! The most important part of killing anything is the shooters ability to properly place the bullet he's using, even if he feels he has to pass on some shots to do it. A 338 mag with a 250gr bullet will kill anything in North America but only if you place the bullet well! I think the little indian woman in Canada the killed the number 2 Grizzly with a 22 long RF with a single shot rifle proved the same thing about the 22 RF!

 

[tjones]

Montana requires a 150 gr bullet minimum for bison hunting. Would the guys saying not to use the outfitter also not hunt bison if drawn because of the requirement?

BTW the bison hunt videos I have seen show them tipping over easier then most whitetail does and most hunters not using a muley mag.