American Prairie Reserve - Nothing new

[TheJason]

I wouldn’t punch you but you would not be shooting next me....you would probably get kicked off of the range though.

Or eaten by grizzlies…

 

[TheJason]

At the ranges I frequent, when someone complains about brass hitting them we tell them not to be a pussy.

 

[rtraverdavis]

Another GREAT one—best if played loud, outside in the cold, still night, while wearing Cousin Eddie attire and holding one of @DouglasR ’s sausages:

 

[Irrelevant]

This is getting embarrassing... I've never seen anyone fail at debate (stretch) as consistently

 

[BackofBeyond]

This is getting embarrassing... I've never seen anyone fail at debate (stretch) as consistently

But at least he’s consistent.

 

[Gila]

“The Texas A&M study that was published in the journal Scientific Reports found that all bison in North America carry small portions of DNA of domestic cattle. This updates previous findings from 20 years ago that revealed that only a few herds existed that were thought to be free of bovine ingression, including the herd in Yellowstone National Park.”

“The new findings from the recent study could change management practices within the bison community and actually make conservation efforts of closed bison herds like Custer State Park easier since they will no longer need to be isolated from other herds. For private producers the study provides information to structure genetically management practices to include more genetic diversity.


The study suggests that the well-intentioned efforts of ranchers in the 1800’s wanting to preserve the iconic animal may have left a complicated genetic legacy through intentional or unintentional cross breeding between the two species. Although without their efforts it is possible the bison would have been extinct.”

New technology in bison genetic testing may improve management practices

CUSTER STATE PARK, S.D. — A recent Texas A&M study on bison genetics may change management practices of bison herds across the nation, including the Custer State Park herd. “There’s

www.newscenter1.tv

This is from 2007. Looks like AP has been chasing a red herring!

—————————————————————————————————————————-
“The majority of public herds have some level of hybridization with cattle,” said Kyran Kunkel, a World Wildlife Federation biologist who is doing the sampling. “You can’t see any difference visually. But we don’t know what the long-term ecological or biological impacts would be.”

“This bison wrangling was being done to test the genetics of a herd of 39 animals that is being used by the American Prairie Foundation as seed stock to re-create a large-scale native prairie landscape. The researchers want animals with only pure bison genes, which are not so easy to find.”

”Though cattle genes in affected bison herds make up less than 1 percent of the bison genome, their presence could create serious consequences like weaker disease resistance. “Hybridization makes it hard to predict and hard to manage because their immune response can be all over the place,” Dr. Derr said. Most private herds have some cattle ancestry, which is fine, Dr. Derr said, if the bison are being raised for meat and if long-term conservation is not a concern.”

“The animals in two federally owned herds, at Yellowstone National Park and Wind Cave National Park, are considered as pure as bison get. (Wind Cave is the source of the American Prairie Foundation herd; lab results are not in yet.)”
————————————————————————-

The results came back with the latest tests and both of these herds have bovine DNA! There is no herd in existence without bovine DNA.

Strands of Undesirable DNA Roam With Buffalo (Published 2007)

Wild bison have returned, but cattle genes have spread into many of the remaining herds, meaning the battle for long-term preservation is not over.

www.nytimes.com

 

[brockel]

This is getting embarrassing... I've never seen anyone fail at debate (stretch) as consistently

Like playing chess with a pigeon

 

[bullbugle307]

This is getting embarrassing... I've never seen anyone fail at debate (stretch) as consistently

He’s more than likely being intellectually dishonest and intentionally spreading BS talking points for some group that he’s working for or affiliated with.

Kudos on you guys for endlessly providing facts to refute him for internet perpetuity, but I’m gonna call a spade a spade.

 

[TheJason]

Like playing chess with a pigeon

 

[Flatbrimmer]

Some ranchers like raising bison and cattle. However those bison are grazed for slaughter or sold to be fed out for slaughter. AP‘s bison are not being grazed for slaughter. Just because you raise bison doesn’t necessarily mean that your land is no longer agricultural land.

 

[WapitiBob]

Like this?

Post in thread 'How many of you hunt with a muzzle brake?'
https://www.hunttalk.com/threads/how-many-of-you-hunt-with-a-muzzle-brake.310207/post-3289954

Note the irony. It’s gold.

I was thinking of the rokslide comment that a NM unit wide landowner tag forbid you from being in the national forest more than 10 days before your hunt.

 

[Gila]

Apparently, my assumptions were correct. The BLM decision to graze APs bison has been appealed (Reconsideration) to the DOI Office of Hearings and Appeals. The Taylor Grazing Act is very clear about which species are considered to be DOMESTIC livestock and bison are not on the list. Once the DOI OHA makes a decision on the reconsideration, THAT decision is final. My crystal ball says that BLM will lose and that will be the first step in dismantling the Empire. Wild Sky is fundamentally flawed as well, but that is another chapter in the history book.

Knudsen is dialed in. He absolutely is 100% correct!

—————————————————————————————————————————-
But part of the AP's mission includes a plan to release wild bison onto its purchased and leased properties in an effort to "re-wild" the land, a proposal the complaint Friday alleged violates the Taylor Grazing Act, a 1934 law that opens public lands up for private livestock grazing. The legislation was passed to ensure adequate food and livestock production across the country.

The Montana Stockgrowers Association said Monday it had appealed the decision to the U.S. Interior Department's hearings division. Gov. Greg Gianforte and Montana Attorney General Austin Knudsen also filed appeals.

"Whether APR classifies its bison as conservation animals, non-production animals, or as wildlife, the fact remains that they are not livestock for purposes of the laws that provide for grazing activities," the state's challenge stated.”

Montana state officials and local ranchers have argued that the bison grazing proposal would ultimately remove land, which could otherwise be used for cattle grazing, out of production and decrease the amount of land available for ranchers.

"The BLM’s decision ignores the real concerns of rural communities and ranchers who rely on the land in favor of elitist attitudes of those seeking to transform Northeast Montana into a wildlife viewing shed for tourists," Knudsen told Fox News Digital.

Montana files legal challenge against Biden admin over plans to take land out of production

Montana Attorney General Austin Knudsen filed a complaint challenging a Biden administration decision approving bison grazing, arguing it would harm local ranchers.

www.foxnews.com

Montana ranchers, Republican officials try to reverse Biden's approval of bison grazing land

The Biden administration is facing backlash from Montana ranchers and Republican state officials after it approved bison grazing on Montana land.

www.foxnews.com

 

[Gila]

I was thinking of the rokslide comment that a NM unit wide landowner tag forbid you from being in the national forest more than 10 days before your hunt.

Never made that comment...You can be in the NF anytime you want to be, but I don’t think it is good ethics to scout in the NF while another hunt is going on. Scouting on state land is only so many days before your hunt and the unit wide private properties are only a couple or few days or whatever it is, before your hunt. I have my scouting schedule setup to scout those areas coming up. I will be hunting state land and e-plus private property this season.

 

[Gila]

I don’t see a scholar in reading comprehension there.....

 

[Hunting Wife]

Some of us actually worked on this genetics stuff you keep citing, during development of those genetic panels with TAMU, and UC Davis, and how to apply the data to bison conservation. You are misrepresenting old data and calling it gospel, and misinterpreting the current utility and application. Not that I think you care, because I agree you seem to have some kind of UPOM agenda and false information is your bread and butter. But I’ll post this anyway for anyone in the gallery who may be curious…

Kunkle’s opinion on the importance of “purity” always has been in the minority, and is now moot. The level of introgression in bison (<1%) is far, far lower than acceptable levels of hybridization in other recovery species (IIRC closer to 20% in some fish, for example). Plus, way back in 2007, anyone with a grasp of genetics expected that introgression likely existed in all conservation herds because of their origins and shared foundation stock, and the fact that we were literally looking at 33 loci. That’s 33 out of millions. Failure to detect didn’t say much. People latching on to purity were fooling themselves.

But so what? Nearly the entirety of what we know about bison came after the bottleneck, and thus we learned it from examination of introgressed bison. Carcass characteristics, foraging patterns, biological functions, etc. Turns out the bison we know today and cattle are still very different in very meaningful ways, so how big a deal is the fraction of a percent of cow DNA, really?

The far bigger threat to bison genetics is genetic drift, loss of heterozygosity, and loss of alleles. We’ve seen an alarming number of alleles disappear from some herds just in the time we’ve been studying bison genetics. Keeping genetic diversity is priority number one. This is what AP and others now diligently manage their herds for.

But once again, this is all deflection and obfuscation because AP is perfectly free to raise whatever beefalo they want to on their private property.

 

[mtmiller]

Apparently, my assumptions were correct. The BLM decision to graze APs bison has been appealed (Reconsideration) to the DOI Office of Hearings and Appeals. The Taylor Grazing Act is very clear about which species are considered to be DOMESTIC livestock and bison are not on the list. Once the DOI OHA makes a decision on the reconsideration, THAT decision is final. My crystal ball says that BLM will lose and that will be the first step in dismantling the Empire. Wild Sky is fundamentally flawed as well, but that is another chapter in the history book.

Quite the clairvoyant, the challenge occurred two weeks ago and no one was surprised.
How much are you willing to put up on your "crystal ball"? I know a guy that might be interested.

https://www.foxnews.com/category/us/us-regions/west/montana

The Montana Stockgrowers Association said Monday it had appealed the decision to the U.S. Interior Department's hearings division. Gov. Greg Gianforte and Montana Attorney General Austin Knudsen also filed appeals.

Weird, almost like they have constituents to pacify.

"The BLM’s decision ignores the real concerns of rural communities and ranchers who rely on the land in favor of elitist attitudes of those seeking to transform Northeast Montana into a wildlife viewing shed for tourists," Knudsen told Fox News Digital.

Part of the decision space?

 

[mtmiller]

But once again, this is all deflection and obfuscation because AP is perfectly free to raise whatever beefalo they want to on their private property.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Some of us actually worked on this genetics stuff you keep citing, during development of those genetic panels with TAMU, and UC Davis, and how to apply the data to bison conservation. You are misrepresenting old data and calling it gospel, and misinterpreting the current utility and application. Not that I think you care, because I agree you seem to have some kind of UPOM agenda and false information is your bread and butter. But I’ll post this anyway for anyone in the gallery who may be curious…

Kunkle’s opinion on the importance of “purity” always has been in the minority, and is now moot. The level of introgression in bison (<1%) is far, far lower than acceptable levels of hybridization in other recovery species (IIRC closer to 20% in some fish, for example). Plus, way back in 2007, anyone with a grasp of genetics expected that introgression likely existed in all conservation herds because of their origins and shared foundation stock, and the fact that we were literally looking at 33 loci. That’s 33 out of millions. Failure to detect didn’t say much. People latching on to purity were fooling themselves.

But so what? Nearly the entirety of what we know about bison came after the bottleneck, and thus we learned it from examination of introgressed bison. Carcass characteristics, foraging patterns, biological functions, etc. Turns out the bison we know today and cattle are still very different in very meaningful ways, so how big a deal is the fraction of a percent of cow DNA, really?

The far bigger threat to bison genetics is genetic drift, loss of heterozygosity, and loss of alleles. We’ve seen an alarming number of alleles disappear from some herds just in the time we’ve been studying bison genetics. Keeping genetic diversity is priority number one. This is what AP and others now diligently manage their herds for.

But once again, this is all deflection and obfuscation because AP is perfectly free to raise whatever beefalo they want to on their private property.

 

[Gerald Martin]

Bummer. Looks like AP better roll up their operation and sell that land to housing developers. Everyone wants a piece of MT.

 

[hank4elk]

Boy am I a dummy amongst the wise.
No wonder cattle never penciled out for me in NM.
I don't have a section to raise a cow/calf. I don't make enough for the big bucks, the tax write off.
I only have a 4 wire fence around my place so bison are out. I have prairie dogs up the wazoo but no ferrets.
The elk and antelope have keys to the place it seems.

I have a late cow tag I drew for my unit but will just stay here at home.
Still trying to find out how to hang the New Mexico Beef is Great front plate on the Ford.
I thought AP stood for Animal Place...and can't read cause I'm signed up in the E-Plus program.

If I had only gotten a little yappy dog...I coulda been a cattle baron.