American Cities

[Pucky Freak]

I guess my question should be which cities make you take a shit and shoot heroin in the ghetto, and which ones allow you to do it in front of children and tourist/ in the city’s core areas, in front of expensive real estate, hotels, restaurants, and centers for business and commerce?

There is also a 15-minute version of the documentary as well. Well worth a watch.

Many liberal cities experiment with unconventional social policies, which have lead some interesting…outcomes. It is not just about human misery being on display, but also government practices that attract criminals to relocate to those places.

LA, SF, and Seattle are in a league of their own. The open secret among those running these places is that they have a major crime problem. When the politicians talk about it, they refer to it as a housing problem and/or a substance use problem.

There are many second-tier cities that are not nearly as bad as the first three, such as San Diego, Portland, Chicago, Philly, Denver, Columbia, Detroit, Albuquerque. A common thread with cities like these is there are very clean/nice areas, but then also areas within them that are severely under-policed, which creates neighborhoods with very visible human misery of defecating on the ground, used needles strewn about, a menagerie of street prostitutes, etc.

Some “small enough” cities have relatively efficient bureaucracies to stay on top of petty crime, keeping it hidden. I’d be happy to introduce you to all 65 unsheltered persons in Des Moines in one day.

In the other end of the spectrum, NYC is a decent example of staying on top of their issues, which is impressive considering how populated the place is.

 

[noharleyyet]

Love Memphis...land of the Pharaohs

 

[Moserkr]

Big cities like San Diego where I grew up, Portland, and Seattle are great!! Everyone should move there and find those niche spots where theres no crime or homeless. The girls there are pretty too! Especially on the beach...

Im back in a small town USA now though and it's horrible. Wifi is slow, nothing to do, no culture, super quiet and boring. Lots of meth, trailer parks, white trash, rednecks. One horse towns are dying, dont even bother looking. No jobs, ugly women, cold weather.

 

[Ben Lamb]

I love big cities for their food, events and activities.

I love the suburbs for the easy living they provide while raising kids and working hard.

I love small towns for the quirky, almost random, food and bar options as well as getting out of the echo chamber of the cities and ‘burbs to bask in its own type of echo chamber.

I love the wilderness - the ability to get away and wallow in nature.

There are upsides and downsides to all places, but why not see to glory of each and enjoy this great country fully. Like I always told my kids - happiness is a choice. You can either choose to embrace the good or pout about the bad - that’s on you.

 

[Elky Welky]

The open secret among those running these places is that they have a major crime problem. When the politicians talk about it, they refer to it as a housing problem and/or a substance use problem.

I agree with much of the rest of your post, but not this sentiment. It's not an either/or. Substance use/housing/poor job markets (often because once someone has a criminal conviction, they aren't all that likely to get a job to pull themselves out of the spiral) all contribute to crime. Where I live, the majority of the conservative population wants to incarcerate more people without addressing the underlying issues of substance abuse, mental health, and poverty. Bigger jails do little but breed more hardened criminals and give them a great place to network for when they get outside. Society has turned their back on them, so why bother living a different lifestyle? If society isn't going to step up and try to help their citizenry, crime is the inevitable result.

A good example is a parks and rec bond that was overwhelmingly shot down in my town recently. It was going to build a big new rec center for youths and invest in more programming to keep kids active.

The bond was shot down, and then there was another youth-involved shooting. A social media post went up about it and someone actually commented: "Don't these youths have something better to do?" They sure would... if only they had a rec center.

 

[TOGIE]

this thread has me thinking. so much focus falls on the big cities and their big problems. but let's zoom out a little

Poverty Level:
Craig, Colorado - 8.6% below the poverty line
Laramie, Wyoming - 23.6% below the poverty line
Denver, Colorado - 11.7% below the poverty line

at quick glance, the top 10 of the most populous 100 cities for violent crime per 100k aren't exactly what i would've predicted, not unexpected, but not what i would've predicted:



then you have cortez, colorado with a poverty rate of 14.77% and a violent crime rate adjusted up to 3500 per 100k, Denver is 675.61 per 100K. but for some reason cortez doesn't make the news much.

montrose colorado with a poverty rate of 12.97% and a crime rate adjusted up to 2642 per 100k.

makes me wonder if we really dug into the numbers and looked at the entirety of smaller more rural american cities/towns we'd start to wonder if the big nasty cities are really the place to be?

edit: im realizing in my quick googling i may have conflated some general crime rates with violent crime rates for some of these towns. my point and question remain though.

 

[Irrelevant]

Where I live, the majority of the conservative population wants to incarcerate more people without addressing the underlying issues of substance abuse, mental health, and poverty.

Because all ^ that is is talk. Nowhere has every actually addressed those issues, because their in no answer, and the frankly the gov't (whatever level you want to pick) is probably the least likely to succeed. And at a certain point, people get sick of feel good things not working. I recognize incarceration isn't a real answer either, but the use of "mental health" as a nebulous term for all of societies current ills holds no more water for me than climate change does for all our environmental ills.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Because all ^ that is is talk. Nowhere has every actually addressed those issues, because their in no answer, and the frankly the gov't (whatever level you want to pick) is probably the least likely to succeed. And at a certain point, people get sick of feel good things not working. I recognize incarceration isn't a real answer either, but the use of "mental health" as a nebulous term for all of societies current ills holds no more water for me than climate change does for all our environmental ills.

I am typically a small govt guy, but social security and Medicare have demonstrably reduced abject poverty in the elderly. Not saying it is perfect and I would like to see some improvements - but it is disingenuous to think the private charitable sector would have done better. There are some social problems so big that only govt spending power and coordination can make a dent.

 

[Roscoe P Coal]

Meanwhile city of Bozeman, in a preemptive measure to counter bad city stuff, is offering a chance for $25 gift cards to those who take survey on questions around garbage services, recycling, etc.

Valuable data is being obtained..

View attachment 316186

 

[Irrelevant]

I am typically a small govt guy, but social security and Medicare have demonstrably reduced abject poverty in the elderly. Not saying it is perfect and I would like to see some improvements - but it is disingenuous to think the private charitable sector would have done better. There are some social problems so big that only govt spending power and coordination can make a dent.

On that I agree. But in terms of Elk's actual comment about those suffering from mental illness, substance abuse, etc. I disagree. I have seen zero evidence to support the issue can be solved with gov't programs.

 

[VikingsGuy]

View attachment 316500

Hard to argue with the logic

 

[Roscoe P Coal]

Vancouver, BC is my favorite big city, no question. It's also getting over run with homeless and drugs though.

I was in Gastown not long ago. Head on a swivel is putting it lightly. I am a country mouse though. Heard a new phrase there…. “Heroin Hunch”. People there seem desensitized to their surroundings. I don’t intend to visit anytime soon.

 

[VikingsGuy]

On that I agree. But in terms of Elk's actual comment about those suffering from mental illness, substance abuse, etc. I disagree. I have seen zero evidence to support the issue can be solved with gov't programs.

Been very few attempts since the failed incarceration approach was dismantled by the courts in the 60s. Not that I wanted the feds to regulate health insurance coverage, but now that they have, they should demand higher levels of care for mental health and drug treatment. They also could substantially capitalize an increase in education system for mental health professionals. They could give favorable tax treatment for new treatment facilities. They could support employee protections for those seeking treatment. Etc etc etc. There is much low hanging fruit in this failed system. But a standard approach to reject any attempts is that we can’t fix it all so we shouldn’t do anything. And then we just gripe about homeless people on the streets- not a proven success in my view.

 

[Elky Welky]

On that I agree. But in terms of Elk's actual comment about those suffering from mental illness, substance abuse, etc. I disagree. I have seen zero evidence to support the issue can be solved with gov't programs.

Depends on the size of the program. I lean more towards localized efforts. The bigger the gov't, the bigger the bureaucracy and likelihood of mismanagement.

Just for context, in my day job I'm a public defender. So I represent the population in my community that struggles the most with substance abuse, mental health, and poverty day in and day out. They aren't just fictions. I also represent individuals that haven't committed any crimes, but that the state is asking to have civilly committed for mental health issues. We're desperately lacking in full-time placements for the most vulnerable members of our communities, because the state hospital has to discharge them after 90 days. They go back out there, and we simply don't have shelter for them. So I can see with my own eyes govt programs that would make a significant difference, like community housing.

 

[Irrelevant]

Been very few attempts since the failed incarceration approach was dismantled by the courts in the 60s. Not that I wanted the feds to regulate health insurance coverage, but now that they have, they should demand higher levels of care for mental health and drug treatment. They also could substantially capitalize an increase in education system for mental health professionals. They could give favorable tax treatment for new treatment facilities. They could support employee protections for those seeking treatment. Etc etc etc. There is much low hanging fruit in this failed system. But a standard approach to reject any attempts is that we can’t fix it all so we shouldn’t do anything. And then we just gripe about homeless people on the streets- not a proven success in my view.

We could give them free homes, or free RV spaces (with free utilities, includes gas), free health care, free drug treatment, we could forego punishment if they sign up for treatment instead, we could decriminalize, and we have, at least here in WA. And it hasn't done a gd thing to improve the situation. There's a million contributing causes we could debate the merits of. But at a certain point it has to be a results based discussion.

The only real hope I have, is through our schools, and when I say "our" I specifically mean the one my kids go to, because they, as much or more than any place, seems to really teach kids to be happy and accepting, that they have intrinsic value, and that there is honor in being a good person. My hope is that with a foundation like that people are more likely to succeed in life.

 

[Elky Welky]

We could give them free homes, or free RV spaces (with free utilities, includes gas), free health care, free drug treatment, we could forego punishment if they sign up for treatment instead, we could decriminalize, and we have, at least here in WA. And it hasn't done a gd thing to improve the situation. There's a million contributing causes we could debate the merits of. But at a certain point it has to be a results based discussion.

The only real hope I have, is through our schools, and when I say "our" I specifically mean the one my kids go to, because they, as much or more than any place, seems to really teach kids to be happy and accepting, that they have intrinsic value, and that there is honor in being a good person. My hope is that with a foundation like that people are more likely to succeed in life.

I'm a huge fan of public schools and getting them better funding. Not sure if the one your kids go to is public, but on that we can agree: teachers are really at the forefront of the war on poverty, and pulling kids out of it starts with a quality education, and early.

 

[Irrelevant]

I'm a huge fan of public schools and getting them better funding. Not sure if the one your kids go to is public, but on that we can agree: teachers are really at the forefront of the war on poverty, and pulling kids out of it starts with a quality education, and early.

They do, and I agree. I'm a huge public school supporter. Though I will still throw the left, here in WA, under the bus for reducing our SD funding because it was deemed "unfair" (and probably racist too) by restricting how much money our SD can acquire through local bonds. Apparently if your community wants to increase funding they aren't allowed to because some other communities don't want to pay more.

 

[gouch]

Sitting here thinking about it, I realize that the largest American city I have ever spent even one night in, is Eugene Or.

I've led a very sheltered life.

 

[elkduds]

Just for context, in my day job I'm a public defender.

Let me the first here to say

 

[Dave N]

Love Memphis...land of the Pharaohs

View attachment 316486

That place impressed me more than Graceland! 2 different big name BBQ joints came up lacking.