Aging mule deer bucks!

[ImBillT]

Im going to post 9-12 deer that I have killed, most of which have been aged by tooth wear by the local biologist. I also plan to send teeth to Matson Labs for analysis within a few months. I’m not starting this thread for other people to show their deer(or for me to show mine, but that’s part of me determining sort of kind of how old they might be) I want other people to give their opinions of how old these deer are, and what physical attributes make them think they are about that age.

I’m trying not to derail a separate thread any further than I already have. I’ve been very curious about aging mule deer for a while, especially since my state game agency is implementing a spread based antler restriction that I fear is only going to ruin the states mule deer herd. My conundrum here is that from recent research I’ve done on aging deer seems to indicate that aging by body characteristics, tooth wear, and possibly even cementum annuli are all more flawed than I previously thought.

I have never killed a really big mule deer, nor have I killed a really old mule deer. I had one get aged by the local biologist as being 8.5yrs old. After having him age some much younger than I would have thought, I looked up how to age by tooth wear and now question the 8.5yr old conclusion, as I would guess his teeth to be younger than that. So let’s hear your thoughts on these deer ages, and then maybe I’ll update with tooth wear ages, then when I get results back from Matson Labs, I’ll post that.

 

[ImBillT]

Deer 1

Any guesses on his age? I’m not bashing anyone with any number they put. It can be a range. I know what a bio said based on his teeth, and if Matson says his teeth are in good enough condition to get an answer, I’ll send one in.

What characteristics point you to whatever guess you make? Mass, bases, facial features?

Deer 2 is further down the thread.

 

[ImBillT]

If some folks on here get pretty close to what the bio said, and especially if Matson Labs, AND the bio, AND some experts here are all within a fairly reasonable zone on most of the deer, I’ll find that to be very, very helpful. On the other hand, if Matson Labs is usually not close to the tooth wear, and no one here is consistent with either Matson Labs, or the tooth e wear from the bio, then I’ll end up determining that it really can’t be known. Ideally, Matson Labs will land fairly close to the tooth wear analysis from the bio, and at least a few people here will be fairly consistently close, and have good consistent attributes to look for. After all, who cares how old a dead deer is? I want to figure out how to get close while he’s still alive. It’s only then that a deer’s age can inform my decisions on shooting him or passing. I think most people who have been hunting for a while have at least some interest in targeting older animals, but I also think actually determining if an animal is older is easier said than done.

 

[Valley1320]

Any guesses on his age? I’m not bashing anyone with any number they put. It can be a range. I know what a bio said based on his teeth, and if Matson says his teeth are in good enough condition to get an answer, I’ll send one in.

What characteristics point you to whatever guess you make? Mass, bases, facial features?

6.5 years... just judging by his face it looks older but he doesn't look extremely old. Decent heavy mass and his antlers have characteristics of a older buck buck that can vary so much by genetics and areas of the the country.

 

[RobertD]

I'm no mule deer guy but I'm going to guess 4.5 or maybe 5.5. That's just going off of his face and body which look to me to be those of a mature but not necessarily old deer. I don't know enough about antler quality in your area to know how that might factor in to the equation.

 

[ImBillT]

I'm no mule deer guy but I'm going to guess 4.5 or maybe 5.5. That's just going off of his face and body which look to me to be those of a mature but not necessarily old deer. I don't know enough about antler quality in your area to know how that might factor in to the equation.

I will say that antler quality seems highly variable. My two best scoring bucks from the area are not the two that I think are the oldest I’ve killed in the area. The largest buck I’ve seen there was old. The oldest(I think) buck that I’ve seen there did not have very large antlers.

Actually, ignore all that. I’m looking for opinions that might inform my future opinions. Antler characteristics might say a lot about their age. We’ll see how it all shakes out.

 

[ImBillT]

I can probably add a couple antler measurements if folks think that is useful.

 

[Bambistew]

I'm hardly a guru, and I really don't think there is any way to know for sure how old a deer is by looking at it. For me I look at how wide the face/eye sockets are, color of the face and look at the eye guards and burrs. Older bucks tend to have have bladed eye guards. I'd guess that buck to be older than 4, probably much older.

 

[ImBillT]

I'm hardly a guru, and I really don't think there is any way to know for sure how old a deer is by looking at it. For me I look at how wide the face/eye sockets are, color of the face and look at the eye guards and burrs. Older bucks tend to have have bladed eye guards. I'd guess that buck to be older than 4, probably much older.

By no means should anyone post a narrower range than they want to guess. If they want to say “4.5” or “at least” or “x-y” that’s what they should say.

I agree that there’s no way to be 100% sure just by looking. Unfortunately I don’t think it’s useful only to know after you kill it. I’m hoping that somehow, it might be possible to get close just by looking at it, because if you can’t get in the ballpark until after it’s dead, then there’s no real point in knowing it’s age once it’s dead.
I would even say that it might be hard to get within 3-4 years just by looking. However, if I could somewhat reliably narrow it down to 2-3, 4-6, 6-10, and 10+ then that could be reasonably useful. If no one can narrow it down to a useful range by looking at the deer, then knowing how old it was after the fact isn’t worth much.

 

[gonhunting247]

I'd also guess that deer at 4-5 years old, but some of mine have fooled me according to tooth data. Body shape, facial coloration antler mass compared to point length etc., all have helped me get pretty accurate with aging deer in areas that I'm familiar with the norm in those particular regions.

 

[ImBillT]

Deer number 2. Age guesses, AND is he older, younger, or similar in age to deer number 1?

 

[Bambistew]

By no means should anyone post a narrower range than they want to guess. If they want to say “4.5” or “at least” or “x-y” that’s what they should say.

I agree that there’s no way to be 100% sure just by looking. Unfortunately I don’t think it’s useful only to know after you kill it. I’m hoping that somehow, it might be possible to get close just by looking at it, because if you can’t get in the ballpark until after it’s dead, then there’s no real point in knowing it’s age once it’s dead.
I would even say that it might be hard to get within 3-4 years just by looking. However, if I could somewhat reliably narrow it down to 2-3, 4-6, 6-10, and 10+ then that could be reasonably useful. If no one can narrow it down to a useful range by looking at the deer, then knowing how old it was after the fact isn’t worth much.

To be honest, I don't think it really matters once they get past about 4. I've yet to shoot a buck and think he was too young. I'd be curious to know how old that buck is, I'd bet he's quite old. Young deer are easy to tell they are young. It's quite harder to judge one laying on the ground as well.

 

[ImBillT]

To be honest, I don't think it really matters once they get past about 4. I've yet to shoot a buck and think he was too young. I'd be curious to know how old that buck is, I'd bet he's quite old. Young deer are easy to tell they are young. It's quite harder to judge one laying on the ground as well.

I like the way you think!

My state game agency seems to disagree. I don’t like what they’re doing, or how they’re doing it.

 

[Valley1320]

Deer number 2. Age guesses, AND is he older, younger, or similar in age to deer number 1?

Either 4 1/2 or 5 1/2 I think. His face looks younger than the other buck.. features just don't look as old

 

[ImBillT]

Deer 3

 

[ImBillT]

There are two years between when this picture was taken and when deer 1 was killed. Is this deer 1? If so, does it help age deer 1?

 

[Carl 9.3x62]

Deer 3

I'd say over 6? But not real confident in guessing numbers. I do like the big roman nose he has, and it leads me to think he is an older buck.

 

[Valley1320]

Deer 3

6.5 or 7.5. Forks are getting weak. Roman nose. Looks like a full mature heavy body

 

[bonedogg]

My two cents...Deer 2 being the oldest, you can just see it in his face...

deer 1 4.5-5.5
deer 2 6.5-7.5
deer 3 3.5-4.5

 

[ImBillT]

Deer 4