Accuracy advantages of lead free bullets?

[Caseknife]

Does anyone here crimp their lead-free bullets? Was planning to try some Barnes 80 grain TTSX in a 25-284. The bullet in the pic is about .050 off the lands and is still too long to fit in a Remington 700 short action magazine. I can seat it a bit deeper and crimp it while I'm at it. Right now I'm at 57 grains of Reloder 22 or IMR7977 and can probably move up a couple more. I'd like to get just one critter with it.

The only rounds I crimp are handgun. I just rely on neck tension and have at least a caliber in the neck. Don't be afraid to seat the Barnes .125 from the lands, they definitely like the jump and if seated at the lands, monos create pressure spikes.

BTW my bullet selection is 90% Barnes, the only lead I shoot is at targets. The only Barnes I ever had not perform was one of the original X out of a 6mm Rem.

 

[D4570]

Just today.
8mm RM 200 TSX Barnes 3200 fps.
500 yards, shooting over my hunting pack laying on the ground.
A breeze to the left that is a 3" group.
A life-sized deer target.

 

[Brian in Montana]

I find threads like this interesting. I'm not real experienced with solid coppers but I have loaded TTSXs in our .270s a bit. Gotten good accuracy with them, but I don't think I could say they are inherently more accurate than jacketed bullets.

I've probably gotten better accuracy in more calibers and bullet/powder combos with Hdy Interbonds than anything else, but they're sometimes pretty hard to find. Because of that I've considered trying the GMX.

 

[Justabirdwatcher]

I find threads like this interesting. I'm not real experienced with solid coppers but I have loaded TTSXs in our .270s a bit. Gotten good accuracy with them, but I don't think I could say they are inherently more accurate than jacketed bullets.

I've probably gotten better accuracy in more calibers and bullet/powder combos with Hdy Interbonds than anything else, but they're sometimes pretty hard to find. Because of that I've considered trying the GMX.

Brian, I have to say that it's hard to beat a Hornady bullet. I came into reloading 5 years ago with no preconceptions. I just muddled my way through and drew my own conclusions. And 5 years later, I've never been disappointed by a Hornady bullet. Sierras are a close 2nd too.

 

[FLS]

Really depends how far down the rabbit hole you want to go... If you are shooting factory ammo less than 500yds, you probably will not notice a big difference in accuracy.

If you are an extreme long range shooter and hunt at longer than "normal" ranges, most shooters are using CNC machined lead-free handloads

What The Pros Use – King of 2 Miles Edition

Earlier this week I traveled to watch the King of 2 Miles rifle competition (Ko2M) at the NRA Whitti...

precisionrifleblog.com

That is a tiny very specialized subset of long range shooting, that only shoot a handful of rounds at a match.
PRS and F Class still shoot jacketed lead. There isn’t a single competitor in either shooting copper. High BC heavy for caliber monos are too long to feed from a mag fed repeater, and at a 2 day PRS match where you may shoot 200 rounds, they’re simply too expensive. I don’t know any LR hunters shooting copper either. They’re all shooting jacketed for that same reasons. Berger’s and Sierras dominate the LR scene.

 

[Brian in Montana]

Brian, I have to say that it's hard to beat a Hornady bullet. I came into reloading 5 years ago with no preconceptions. I just muddled my way through and drew my own conclusions. And 5 years later, I've never been disappointed by a Hornady bullet. Sierras are a close 2nd too.

Before I started handloading, I used Hornady Custom or American Whitetail for pretty much everything. The good old standard Interlock always treated me well.

 

[Justabirdwatcher]

That is a tiny very specialized subset of long range shooting, that only shoot a handful of rounds at a match.
PRS and F Class still shoot jacketed lead. There isn’t a single competitor in either shooting copper. High BC heavy for caliber monos are too long to feed from a mag fed repeater, and at a 2 day PRS match where you may shoot 200 rounds, they’re simply too expensive. I don’t know any LR hunters shooting copper either. They’re all shooting jacketed for that same reasons. Berger’s and Sierras dominate the LR scene.

that pretty much answers my question.
Thanks.

 

[Justabirdwatcher]

Before I started handloading, I used Hornady Custom or American Whitetail for pretty much everything. The good old standard Interlock always treated me well.

From everything I've ever seen, they are pretty reliable for a cup-and-core bullet too.

 

[mtmuley]

I don’t know any LR hunters shooting copper either. They’re all shooting jacketed for that same reasons.

Bet it's only a matter of time before more "extended range" shooters use a mono. Some for compliance, some because they work. There are guys shooting them at distance already. mtmuley

 

[FLS]

Doubtful. 6mm and 6.5 mm dominate the game. heavy high BC copper bullets are too long to feed from a short action AI pattern magazine. Too expensive as well. A serious competitor is shoots 5-10 K rounds a year. Copper doesnt offer any advantage. If it did they would already be using them.
They’re great for hunting, I shoot 130 TTSX out of my 270. BC isn’t great but I’m not shooting that particular rifle far enough for it to matter much If I wanted to shoot mono with a better BC I would have to rebarrel. That’s their downfall for LR hunting IMO.

 

[Justabirdwatcher]

Just like Bismuth and Tungsten replaced steel in the waterfowl world, I wonder how much longer before something more dense than copper comes along to in the rifle world, specifically for hunters who don't want to use lead, but who also don't want to give up the ballistic advantage lead has either.

 

[mtmuley]

Doubtful. 6mm and 6.5 mm dominate the game. heavy high BC copper bullets are too long to feed from a short action AI pattern magazine. Too expensive as well. A serious competitor is shoots 5-10 K rounds a year. Copper doesnt offer any advantage. If it did they would already be using them.
They’re great for hunting, I shoot 130 TTSX out of my 270. BC isn’t great but I’m not shooting that particular rifle far enough for it to matter much If I wanted to shoot mono with a better BC I would have to rebarrel. That’s their downfall for LR hunting IMO.

I was talking hunting only. Competition shooting has nothing to do with hunting bullets. Different ballgame. The trend even with factory rifles, is barrels with faster twists that are capable of handling the heavier higher BC monos. mtmuley

 

[FLS]

Where do you think the ELDx and Berger hunters originated??? They’re adaptations of target bullets. Long range hunting is a complete off shoot of long range target and tactical shooting.
I think mono hunting bullet technology will get better with time. Barnes bullets are way ahead of where they started. Similar to non toxic shot. It sucked when it first came out, now it gives up little to lead.

 

[Justabirdwatcher]

Where do you think the ELDx and Berger hunters originated??? They’re adaptations of target bullets. Long range hunting is a complete off shoot of long range target and tactical shooting.
I think mono hunting bullet technology will get better with time. Barnes bullets are way ahead of where they started. Similar to non toxic shot. It sucked when it first came out, now it gives up little to lead.

that's what I was thinking. I see the copper bullets as the "steel shot" of the rifle world. Surely there will be more dense non-lead bullets available someday, even if they are more expensive still than copper, because hunters don't need thousands and thousands of rounds downrange. So my guess is hunters are actually willing to spend more on bullets than long range competition shooters are.

I have to believe that progressive bullet manufacturers are already experimenting with the next material in hunting bullet technology.

 

[FLS]

Serious competitive shooters are using exponentially more bullets than even an avid hunter will. They spend more in components in a year than most hunters will in a lifetime. How many hunters do you know shooting out multiple barrels a year?

 

[Justabirdwatcher]

Serious competitive shooters are using exponentially more bullets than even an avid hunter will. They spend more in components in a year than most hunters will in a lifetime. How many hunters do you know shooting out multiple barrels a year?

Let's keep this about monos vs. lead if we can please.

 

[el pato]

Here you go. Not sure if .48moa is acceptable or not. I'm pretty sure I could do better with a little heavier rifle.

View attachment 145529View attachment 145530

I can't find the pics of the target from my 300WSM but it'll shoot .65moa groups with 180 grain Etips at 2930fps with an SD of 4.5
Working on my 7mm-08 with 140Etips shooting around 1MOA

Might be worth ditching "factory" non-lead bullets for a smaller company like Hammer, Badlands Precision or Cutting Edge. My experience is limited to Hammer and they are very easy to work with. I have contacted Badlands Precision about testing their 180 and 196 bullets in my 300WinMag but they have not responded yet.

7m-08

 

[mtmuley]

Let's keep this about monos vs. lead if we can please.

In that case, no, I don't believe lead bullets have any accuracy advantage over monos. You just need to find the mono that shoots best. Just like with lead. mtmuley

 

[FLS]

Let's keep this about monos vs. lead if we can please.

I was. Monos drawbacks are cost and weight/ BC.
Their plus is increased penetration.
I don’t believe they are more accurate.

 

[JLS]

In that case, no, I don't believe lead bullets have any accuracy advantage over monos. You just need to find the mono that shoots best. Just like with lead. mtmuley

I gotta agree 100% with this. The "best" bullet is the one that fits your priorities, factoring in price, terminal performance, accuracy and consistency, etc.

To the OP, for my own reasons, I'll never shoot lead bullets again for my hunting rifles. YMMV.