A Navy Veteran’s perspective on racism

[VikingsGuy]

I should probably caveat; I cannot speak to every union or every department, only what I have witnessed in MPLS over the years and the last few weeks.

MPLS Police Union head is the poster child for the problem - he has blunted any attempt at improving the department, leaving many to assume it is beyond repair. It's a damn shame, because there are many good cops doing important work in the city.

 

[runningmt]

GF was not a good person. Career criminal with numerous felonies and multiple convictions and prison terms. His last arrest was for trying to push a counterfeit $20 onto an unsuspecting citizen who was on it. During this guy’s initial contact with the Leo’s he dropped a dime bag of white; obviously racist” powder on to the ground. Oops . His autopsy showed fentanyl, cocaine and mj in his blood. Snap! Yeah this is the guy I’m gonna riot for.

You don’t know anything about George Floyd. Nothing.

If anything but a perfect life with no mistakes gets you killed by cops,most of us would be dead.

I did drugs when I was younger, do I deserve to die?

I got caught up in vandalism as a child with no parents around, should I have been killed?

Please go elsewhere to spout your racism, maybe Sean Hannity needs a new friend.

 

[Trial153]

While there can, and should be, debate on how to best fix the situation we are in, there should be no debate that there is a problem. There is ZERO chance a white dentist in Edina (an upper scale suburb 5 miles from where George was killed) is killed this way - even if the dentist was high at the time. There are sadly different rules for non-whites when it comes to interaction with police. It has to stop. Many have denied the problem, too many situations are “he said, she said” or “bang,bang high stress” events where it is easy to blame the circumstances, the difficult job cops have (which they clearly do) or the actions of the accused. But there is no such place to hide with this one. On video, with witnesses, 8 minutes to do the right thing, no imminent threat to the officers, no underlying violent crime to have raised the pressure of the situation - it was simple human disdain and disregard for the value of the life of another person based upon their skin color.

90% of cops are great - they do a tough job under tough circumstances and I appreciate their service - but we have to stop passing the buck on this and work to resolve the other 10%. It needs to be easier to dismiss bad cops - other cops know who they are, but the informal code of silence and aggressive unions have made it too difficult, hopefully this can change.

We also have to find a way to break the cycle of escalation towards “military style policing”. An overly aggressive approach raises the stakes for the cops and the citizens they are supposed to protect and makes accidental shootings inevitable. It’s time to deescalate.

It’s time for white Americans to hear and take seriously the experiences of our non-white fellow citizens. This does not mean we have to agree with every proposed solution but we have to resist the urge to explain away the reality or to return to our couch. I am not saying go out and join the riots, but we need to hold our elected officials and police departments accountable to make significant and sustained improvements - this needs to be raised up the priority list. We have to find a way to engage our economically challenged communities regardless of race - there is no doubt that there is a link between economic hopelessness and violent activity. Jobs solve more problems than a police department armored personnel carrier. This is true in poor white communities, poor black communities and poor Latino communities.

Echo's my thoughts. Thank you.

 

[406dn]

Systemic racism. That’s the new buzzword isn’t it? If racism is systemic then what’s the system? Blacks in America today should focus on the elimination of cradle to grave dependency on the welfare system. Pr. Johnson (D) implemented that system or rather inflicted it upon the black family and effectively destroyed it. Prior to that “program” black families were stable, owned successful businesses, owned there own farms, property and homes. They had to work to get ahead like everyone else because big welfare didn’t exist. In work is dignity but when the Great Society program was instituted to eliminate black poverty and social injustice, it backfired. But as Pr. Johnson said about it’s passing; “I’ll have those n1¥¥€#} voting democrat for the next 200 years”! In essence the D’s simply forged a few more links in the chain then locked it down by destroying the Black families. All in the name of social justice; whatever that is? That system has been in existence for 55+ years now. I’d say it’s failed spectacularly or it did exactly what it was intended to do. ?

You are quite amazing,,,not in a good way but amazing. Yep, black people had it great when their heads got bashed in Selma, their children bombed in a church basement. No doubt those were good days for them.

Your hero Cliven Bundy, feels they were better off as slaves,,,no wonder he is some one you admire. By god, they had a work ethic then.

 

[Zach]

The article lost me at systemic racism....

 

[bushman13]

I would imagine multiple violent assaults on your rap sheet would increase your likelihood of death by cop. He had an assault on pregnant woman with a gun and an armed home invasion.

Also, the VP of the Minneapolis city council said on MSNBC that these guys (Floyd and Cop) worked together for 17 years at the bar across the street of the incident. Things aren’t always what they seem.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1266242696194080768

You don’t know anything about George Floyd. Nothing.

If anything but a perfect life with no mistakes gets you killed by cops,most of us would be dead.

I did drugs when I was younger, do I deserve to die?

I got caught up in vandalism as a child with no parents around, should I have been killed?

Please go elsewhere to spout your racism, maybe Sean Hannity needs a new friend.

 

[azelkhntr]

You don’t know anything about George Floyd. Nothing.

If anything but a perfect life with no mistakes gets you killed by cops,most of us would be dead.

I did drugs when I was younger, do I deserve to die?

I got caught up in vandalism as a child with no parents around, should I have been killed?

Please go elsewhere to spout your racism, maybe Sean Hannity needs a new friend.

GF was a known career criminal as noted above so I guess I know something about him. Common knowledge now right? Sorry to disappoint but I'm not racist. I was very aware of racism growing up in N. Utah with a 95% Mormon community. Now they were racists. We not being Mormons were not treated much better by the way. Bigots like you wouldn't believe. Then we moved to Alabama in 1965. WOW! That was a culture shock for us. My parents couldn't get out of there fast enough. A personal taste of racism was experienced for 2 years stationed in Japan. Boy talk about racists! The Japanese look down on everybody and absolutely despised people of color. I truly don't appreciate you accusing me of racism and telling me to go elsewhere. Where do you get off doing that by the way? Not very friendly.

 

[FI460]

Also, the VP of the Minneapolis city council said on MSNBC that these guys (Floyd and Cop) worked together for 17 years at the bar across the street of the incident.

Incorrect.
Floyd moved to Minneapolis in 2014. While they did work security at the same bar the owner noted that it was possible they had never met.

 

[bushman13]

lol

Incorrect.
Floyd moved to Minneapolis in 2014. While they did work security at the same bar the owner noted that it was possible they had never met.

 

[Europe]

Mkelkhuntress and Panda Bear. I am proud of you girls for adding to this thread. thank you both

Big Fin and I discussed the topic of race a few days ago when something happened in my life in conjunction with the Floyd death and the following protests and riots. He suggested I not start a thread and I agreed with him, as the possibility of someone doing what happen on this thread, could happen, and unfortunately did.

I just wanted to commend Randy for eliminating the problem, before it escalated AND the members for the good and productive conversation. Some excellent food for thought from some very intelligent and thoughtful gentlemen .

Big Fin, would it be possible to delete the last line of post 33 ? It certainly serves no purpose in our discussion IMHO---- or do you feel it needs to stay so those reading the thread can see first hand the attitude of some, and that there is work to still be done.

 

[3855WIN]

So many heart breaking events in 2020. Saw this tweet the other day. This young man is just a good ol country boy doing everything right. Plays SEC football.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1266119529064738821

 

[Sytes]

MPLS Police Union head is the poster child for the problem - he has blunted any attempt at improving the department, leaving many to assume it is beyond repair. It's a damn shame, because there are many good cops doing important work in the city.

I'm not familiar with the MPDF and not disagreeing w/ your thoughts of protective unions, to an extent...
With that in mind, Union strength is not created from thin air. It's the response/result of extreme abuse of autoworkers, steelworkers, electrical, police, fire, etc by the company or governing entity.
Far too often, w/in election cycled Management - sacrificing a firefighter, medic or officer to quell a fickle mob is political and far from legitimate review boards.

There is a reason unions must be protective. It's a process. As is our legal system, better to let a few criminals walk than to trample on the innocent and even still innocent are found guilty.

I.e. fruit of the poisonous tree.

Again, not disagreeing w/ the basis of union strength though far from supportive of a weak union.

 

[mtmuley]

The problem I'm having with all of the things happening is that if someone expresses thoughts that do not align perfectly with the values of others you are racially suspect. mtmuley

 

[FI460]

lol

lol indeed...

The Latest: Attorneys seek outside probe of Floyd's death

Attorney Ben Crump said during a news conference Friday that he's asked to take custody of Floyd's body for an independent autopsy.

kttc.com

 

[Ben Lamb]

The problem I'm having with all of the things happening is that if someone expresses thoughts that do not align perfectly with the values of others you are racially suspect. mtmuley

I got called Karen today by an old friend because I expressed dislike over "defund the cops," so I feel you here.

But I think as well that we often times want to put our opinions out there, and then not listen to the criticisms of them. It's natural. Especially when you're as smart as you & I, but it's important to remember too that our opinions are based on our perceptions, which in this instance aren't necessarily indicative of what those who are upset are going through.

The art of listening is a difficult thing to master. It means we have to put others ahead of our selves, and that is counter to human nature.

 

[Trial153]

This community, unlike many others I am a part of gives me hope. I am sad to say that empathy and the willingness to address this all too real situation seems to be in short supply in the hunting community. At least on social media political tribalism seems to be trump card that defines a person expressons on this issue.

Hats off to Big Fin and a smatering of others in this industry who we're willing to put themselves out publicly on the right side of this, as were some outdoor organizations. Others were noticeably absent, and in my mind, Qui tacet consentit

 

[TOGIE]

i'm trying to meditate on all this

i've had to little to say to anyone about this stuff on purpose (not necessarily on this forum, just at all) - my thoughts and emotions have rapidly evolved over the past few weeks

you don't have to be biblically inclined to agree that some of the best advice during these times (or any times) is it to be quick to listen, slow to speak, and always slow to anger

i think quick to listen is key regarding what is happening in america right now. try to allow your minds to sift through the bullshit and know the chaos is borne of real pain, listen to that - you don't have to understand the pain, just try and listen to it. how we solve it is another question, but a good first step is listening with actual regard to what is going on right now

 

[Zach]

This community, unlike many others I am a part of gives me hope. I am sad to say that empathy and the willingness to address this all too real situation seems to be in short supply in the hunting community. At least on social media political tribalism seems to be trump card that defines a person expressons on this issue.

Hats off to Big Fin and a smatering of others in this industry who we're willing to put themselves out publicly on the right side of this, as were some outdoor organizations. Others were noticeably absent, and in my mind, Qui tacet consentit

Enlighten me, what is "the right side of this"?

 

[MTelkHuntress]

I think the amount of misinformation as well as very polarizing opinions has made for a lot of confusion on the issues within the movement. Today I heard 4 very different meanings of "defund the cops" and to be honest, I have no clue which one is correct or rather what the majority of people want.
A lot of these polarizing opinions also seem to squash any hope of a conversation that will lead to change because either people arent willing to speak for fear of being attacked because they arent quite sure how to say what they believe or people wont listen because they believe things should only be done one way. I saw so many posts that very plainly put, were in the form of "us vs. them" and I dont think that helps.

 

[Trial153]

Enlighten me, what is "the right side of this"?

The right side is the willingness to acknowledge we still have Americans in America that are subjected to inequities soley based on the color of their skin.