A Navy Veteran’s perspective on racism

[Shangobango]

The crime in all this towards people of color is that now relations are even worse, not better. As an individual I don’t discriminate based on race it’s just stupid. Watching all these riots and looters one can’t help but notice the color of the vast majority of these thugs. BLM has not done the black community any favors and race relations have been sent back decades. If this is how they want to achieve “equality” they’ve failed miserably. Or perhaps not. My guess is they’re pawns in a bigger game. Prior to 2008 racism was in reality dead in America and then came the great divider. He built that by design. As far as 2A goes that argument for gun control is dead dead dead. They can’t argue we don’t need guns when we have the police while wanting to defund/disband the police right? NRA should be seeing another huge spike in memberships. Do I treat blacks differently? Yes, yes I do. When I walk down the street and see 2-3 young blacks coming towards me I make a judgement call. Remember the knockout game? That’s still going on. That isn’t racism that’s self preservation. I hope my punctuation and syntax meets the lofty standards of some.

If you think that racism was dead in America prior to 2008 then either you had your head in the sand or you just dont personally associate with many minorities.

I can't believe I even let myself join this discussion on here. Everytime I get involved in a social or political discussion I feel like I am stuck in the middle of two dudes that are much bigger than me trying to break up their fight.

I am slowly coming to realize that there is no breaking up this fight.

 

[VikingsGuy]

If you think that racism was dead in America prior to 2008 then either you had your head in the sand or you just dont personally associate with many minorities.

He seems to have the same view of equality as the now gone Mudder - equality reigns when anybody different than me keeps it to themselves and doesn't bother me with it. The only difference is that Mudder used 2 forbidden words - but frankly much of what two or three members have been peddling on this thread since is worse in my opinion.

 

[VikingsGuy]

A better summary than my feeble attempt:

Amid Calls to ‘Defund,’ How to Rethink Policing

Cops shouldn’t be sent to deal with social problems—substance abuse, mental illness, homelessness—they aren’t trained to handle.

www.wsj.com

 

[MTelkHuntress]

From the look of how this thread has gone, I think this section of the article needs another read:

"We all love the outdoors and, as Americans, nature is free for us to enjoy. But nature is not free for me the same way it is for white people. I wish I could feel completely at ease when I’m outdoors. I wish I could simply enjoy nature and find healing instead of worrying about my safety—especially when I’m outdoors alone. I still feel I have to earn my right to enjoy the outdoors and struggle to find access that doesn’t leave me feeling uncomfortable in wild spaces."

I've seen a lot of people complain about "getting back to normal" and I think we should work on moving forward, preferably in a positive direction where everyone can enjoy the outdoors. Some people's normal isnt being able to ignore the issues that others are so easily able to.

 

[VikingsGuy]

I am slowly coming to realize that there is no breaking up this fight.

But there is staying engaged. The voices of the status quo continue to win the day by excusing, explaining away, shifting blame, fanning the flames of fear, etc The vast majority of good hearted people give up and needed change does not occur. Stay in the discussion, if the good hearted among us choose not to get bored or disgusted and wander off to the next news cycle we can push for effective change -- change that does not mean no police officers, but change where a quarter of our population does not fear police officers.

 

[azelkhntr]

If you think that racism was dead in America prior to 2008 then either you had your head in the sand or you just dont personally associate with many minorities.

I can't believe I even let myself join this discussion on here. Everytime I get involved in a social or political discussion I feel like I am stuck in the middle of two dudes that are much bigger than me trying to break up their fight.

I am slowly coming to realize that there is no breaking up this fight.

If you’re going to let your “feelings” get in the way of a political discussion then you shouldn’t jump in. How you feel, believe or think about something is a personal experience and is not relatable in a political discourse. If you make decisions based solely on those 3 factors you’ll almost always make the wrong choice. Never let them overcome thoughtful reasoning.

 

[Big Fin]

If you’re going to let your “feelings” get in the way of a political discussion then you shouldn’t jump in. How you feel, believe or think about something is a personal experience and is not relatable in a political discourse. If you make decisions based solely on those 3 factors you’ll almost always make the wrong choice. Never let them overcome thoughtful reasoning.

Since when did this become a "political discussion?" Since when is equality and equal treatment for all a political topic? Those are not political topics and anyone who tries to make it that with R/D, Lib/Con, Right/Left tags is going to get the thread closed. And there's a good chance said person will be shown the door.

If you want to make a political discussion, take it to Facebook. Here, it is not a political discussion.

 

[azelkhntr]

From the look of how this thread has gone, I think this section of the article needs another read:

"We all love the outdoors and, as Americans, nature is free for us to enjoy. But nature is not free for me the same way it is for white people. I wish I could feel completely at ease when I’m outdoors. I wish I could simply enjoy nature and find healing instead of worrying about my safety—especially when I’m outdoors alone. I still feel I have to earn my right to enjoy the outdoors and struggle to find access that doesn’t leave me feeling uncomfortable in wild spaces."

I've seen a lot of people complain about "getting back to normal" and I think we should work on moving forward, preferably in a positive direction where everyone can enjoy the outdoors. Some people's normal isnt being able to ignore the issues that others are so easily able to.

You don’t have to earn your right to the great outdoors. That debt was paid off long ago. You’re an American a human being, you’re the top dog in the wild so to speak. Every thoughtful person should take stock of what they’ll need to be safe out there. That’s your personal responsibility to look out for yourself. Be aware of your surroundings and pickup on bad vibes. And always have a sidearm on your person and know how to use it defensively and offensively. Forearmed is forewarned. I’m male and I never go into the outdoors unarmed, never! Too many unknown variables. Have confidence in yourself and others but always be cautious and alert.

 

[azelkhntr]

K

Since when did this become a "political discussion?" Since when is equality and equal treatment for all a political topic? Those are not political topics and anyone who tries to make it that with R/D, Lib/Con, Right/Left tags is going to get the thread closed. And there's a good chance said person will be shown the door.

If you want to make a political discussion, take it to Facebook. Here, it is not a political discussion.

I wasn’t. He said it was social or political. I merely pointed out that letting your personal feelings, beliefs and thoughts which are nebulous interfere in such isn’t useful in discovering the truth. There’s emoting and then there’s reasoning. If one reacts emotionally to a societal or political problem you’ll always make the wrong choice. In other words you may feel good about the decision but what are the real consequences of the implementation? In politics you can always blame someone else but in your personal life you’re on the hook for it. Taking time to reflect before acting is never wasted time

 

[Panda Bear]

MRelkhuntress quoted part of an original text and I for one understand what was meant by the original statement and the point MTelkhuntress made in her post.

 

[406dn]

I hope my punctuation and syntax meets the lofty standards of some.

No one set lofty standards. You got called on it when you inferred that your IQ was high enough to attain some level of eliteness. When so many of your posts are word salads, riddled with bad spelling and punctuation,,,it was low hanging fruit.

 

[Hunting Wife]

You don’t have to earn your right to the great outdoors. That debt was paid off long ago. You’re an American a human being, you’re the top dog in the wild so to speak. Every thoughtful person should take stock of what they’ll need to be safe out there. That’s your personal responsibility to look out for yourself. Be aware of your surroundings and pickup on bad vibes. And always have a sidearm on your person and know how to use it defensively and offensively. Forearmed is forewarned. I’m male and I never go into the outdoors unarmed, never! Too many unknown variables. Have confidence in yourself and others but always be cautious and alert.

I’ve been trying to stay out of this one, but this post REALLY pissed me off. This sums up this thread, these protests, this society perfectly. People dismissing and telling minorities and women about what their experiences should be instead of LISTENING TO WHAT THEY ARE SAYING about what their experiences are. You continue to miss the point. Not everyone’s experience in this world is the same as yours, and they won’t be the same as yours no matter how hard they try because THEY ARE NOT YOU. You obviously don’t want to believe it, but not all Americans are treated the same. Your posts on this thread continually raise the bar for ignorance.

 

[FI460]

You don’t have to earn your right to the great outdoors. That debt was paid off long ago. You’re an American a human being, you’re the top dog in the wild so to speak. Every thoughtful person should take stock of what they’ll need to be safe out there. That’s your personal responsibility to look out for yourself. Be aware of your surroundings and pickup on bad vibes. And always have a sidearm on your person and know how to use it defensively and offensively. Forearmed is forewarned. I’m male and I never go into the outdoors unarmed, never! Too many unknown variables. Have confidence in yourself and others but always be cautious and alert.

Philando Castile showed us that often times carrying a gun for protection while black can be a death sentence.

It's not as simple as you stubbornly believe it to be.

 

[Gerald Martin]

I’ve been trying to stay out of this one, but this post REALLY pissed me off. This sums up this thread, these protests, this society perfectly. People dismissing and telling minorities and women about what their experiences should be instead of LISTENING TO WHAT THEY ARE SAYING about what their experiences are. You continue to miss the point. Not everyone’s experience in this world is the same as yours, and they won’t be the same as yours no matter how hard they try because THEY ARE NOT YOU. You obviously don’t want to believe it, but not all Americans are treated the same. Your posts on this thread continually raise the bar for ignorance.

This is well said. It also raises a pertinent question. Given that a portion of people will never understand or care about any experience other than their own, how do those of us who do understand not everyone is accessing the American ideal of equality, work together to make equality a reality?

I relate to this topic from an incredible position of privilege. I am a white middle class male with access to financial capital and impeccable credit. I work hard to maintain my economic standard and provide a similar experience for my children. All my personal achievements and interactions are based on mutually beneficial financial transactions. Neither me or anyone in my family has ever advanced themselves by directly cheating or taking advantage of anyone. Neither have we treated anyone differently on the basis of their skin color.
I do not feel guilty about the blessings and privilege that are my experience. However, I do realize that with privilege comes responsibility to actively engage in the work to help others move towards the same experiences that I am blessed with.

Something that I am increasingly convinced of but unsure how to change, is that telling people that they need to change or even telling them how to change, isn’t actually all that effective in helping them change.

From my perspective, it is my opinion, that everyone learns best by being shown a positive example that can inspire them with the reality that even though life is hard and everyone has difficulties, God did not create us to be victims and everyone can achieve something better than what they currently are experiencing.
This reality is most powerful when it is shown within the culture and community that every person lives in.
I am not so naive to think that I can take my rural, white, male, self into the middle of Chicago and inspire young black females not to become single mothers or young black males to get involved with gangs. Posting Facebook memes from Bozeman MT, isn’t going to change anything.

I could dismiss other people’s reality as irrelevant since I don’t believe I have directly caused any of the problems they are experiencing. Or I could choose to engage with whatever skills and insight I have in my sphere of influence to help work towards equality and privilege.

One way that I see that I can be influential is in calling for more accountability from those involved in leadership positions of law enforcement. When leaders are allowed to shelter the people they directly oversee from the consequences of their actions and then separate themselves from those same individuals when a subsequent action becomes especially egregious, there is no imperative to change.

Change within urban communities is ultimately is going to be be driven by leaders who are influential in those communities who can inspire others to be responsible productive members of society.

Some solutions will come from outside urban communities, some will come from within.
Pointing out how someone else needs to step up to their responsibilities while avoiding mine only ensures that the same conflict and dysfunction continues.

 

[Shangobango]

But there is staying engaged. The voices of the status quo continue to win the day by excusing, explaining away, shifting blame, fanning the flames of fear, etc The vast majority of good hearted people give up and needed change does not occur. Stay in the discussion, if the good hearted among us choose not to get bored or disgusted and wander off to the next news cycle we can push for effective change -- change that does not mean no police officers, but change where a quarter of our population does not fear police officers.

Thanks for that.

 

[azelkhntr]

I’ve been trying to stay out of this one, but this post REALLY pissed me off. This sums up this thread, these protests, this society perfectly. People dismissing and telling minorities and women about what their experiences should be instead of LISTENING TO WHAT THEY ARE SAYING about what their experiences are. You continue to miss the point. Not everyone’s experience in this world is the same as yours, and they won’t be the same as yours no matter how hard they try because THEY ARE NOT YOU. You obviously don’t want to believe it, but not all Americans are treated the same. Your posts on this thread continually raise the bar for ignorance.

Triggered much? Please don't vomit all that on me. I was trying to help her be more comfortable in the outdoors by realizing its in her own control. Fear is not our friend. None of us can control the actions of others but we can be prepared for possibilities. I offered some self help solutions that actually work and nothing more. If she has a problem with that then she can sound off herself. Be safe and kind.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Triggered much? Please don't vomit all that on me. I was trying to help her be more comfortable in the outdoors by realizing its in her own control. Fear is not our friend. None of us can control the actions of others but we can be prepared for possibilities. I offered some self help solutions that actually work and nothing more. If she has a problem with that then she can sound off herself. Be safe and kind.

I stand with HuntingWife -- time for you to move on.

 

[mtmuley]

I stand with HuntingWife -- time for you to move on.

Last I checked, Randy's decision. Besides, this has become one member against the rest looks like. mtmuley

 

[Shangobango]

After reading the article several times trying to soak in what he is saying I feel motivated to do something. I don't know what it is going to be.

The only point of contention I have with anything he wrote in the article is his notion that " racism is the foundation on which this nation was built'. I do not think that is true. I understand how people could feel that way but I still dont think it is accurate.

 

[Gerald Martin]

Triggered much? Please don't vomit all that on me. I was trying to help her be more comfortable in the outdoors by realizing its in her own control. Fear is not our friend. None of us can control the actions of others but we can be prepared for possibilities. I offered some self help solutions that actually work and nothing more. If she has a problem with that then she can sound off herself. Be safe and kind.

This message of self-help and taking control of our lives would be much more effective if you took it directly into the communities that are experiencing the full effects of the riots.
Specifically, I would suggest downtown Minneapolis @ midnight. Empower some groups of young black youth to take control of their destiny. Give them some firearms to protect their freedom.

Go on. Tell them to get over themselves.