A Navy Veteran’s perspective on racism

[mplane72]

I'm well aware of history and the fact that people have enslaved and subjugated people all over the globe through out time all the way up to this day. I don't think you need to feel guilty about it. I certainly don't. I'm not going to apologize for the sins of the past. I can recognize them though. If you can't admit there are problems today, due to the racism of today, you're either living in Mayberry, have your blinders on way to tight or your in denial of your own racism.

 

[Howie]

We are all citizens of this great Republic. Our constitution is what keeps America, America.
We are all expected to be good citizens, we have our inalienable rights, protected by the bill of rights.
If some of us can't or won't be citizens and chose to break laws. Those are criminals.

Ones race, Creed, nationality, or sex amalgam into American citizen and we must strive to straighten out abusers of our constitution rights.

Immigration is welcome and anyone can become an American citizen.

If one does not like our country and our constitution, as it stands under God, there is also Emigration. Please don't let the door hit you in the butt as you go to your better place

 

[Fullquiver]

I don't act out of guilt. I act out of love for others, as my faith encourages me.

It doesn't matter if I personally locked a native American in a trunk of a cop car for 7 hours (another great MPLS police example) or not. It does not matter than my ancestors came to America after slavery was ended and never lived in a segregated state. It doesn't matter that I worked hard for what I have. I doesn't matter that others make bad choices (and frankly I made plenty of my own along the way).

The question is, what do I do with what I see now? Do I choose to list reasons why this is not my fault, not my problem, or do I do something different? Do I try to take one small step towards healing and helping or do I wash my hands of it and "move further north in Idaho" as one commenter suggested?

I choose to learn, I choose to love, I choose to accept that the experiences of others are real even if they do not match my own. I choose to ask how my blessings may be used to help a fellow human or group of humans who are enduring challenges I am not.

Guilt or innocence is not the question - it is what are you going to do when others are suffering.

If you are in the field and you see a wounded animal, wounded by another hunter, do you do anything or do you say you aren't guilty of anything and move on? I have read grown men on this forum claim they were brought to tears over a wounded deer - how about a few tears for George Floyd, the blacks of Tulsa or rosewood . . and on an on . . . ? If you see an injured hiker, even one that made some bad decisions - do you do anything or do you say that they caused their own mess and walk away?

This is not about guilt or innocence, it is about awareness, empathy and grace for your fellow man.

I tend to keep religion and politics (and religion and hunting) separate, but it feels incomplete to not end with:

“This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you." John 15:12
"Truly I tell you, just as you did it to one of the least of these who are members of my family, you did it to me." Matthew 25:40

Love is the only thing that will change this situation not more hate...

 

[JLS]

If one does not like our country and our constitution, as it stands under God, there is also Emigration. Please don't let the door hit you in the butt as you go to your better place

Sorry, but this is in direct contradiction to the premise that anyone in our country has the ability to effect change. That's why there are amendments to our Constitution.

 

[ignorethefringes]

I don't act out of guilt. I act out of love for others, as my faith encourages me.

It doesn't matter if I personally locked a native American in a trunk of a cop car for 7 hours (another great MPLS police example) or not. It does not matter that my ancestors came to America after slavery was ended and never lived in a segregated state. It doesn't matter that I worked hard for what I have. I doesn't matter that others make bad choices (and frankly I made plenty of my own along the way).

The question is, what do I do with what I see now? Do I choose to list reasons why this is not my fault, not my problem, or do I do something different? Do I try to take one small step towards healing and helping or do I wash my hands of it and "move further north in Idaho" as one commenter suggested?

I choose to learn, I choose to love, I choose to accept that the experiences of others are real even if they do not match my own. I choose to ask how my blessings may be used to help a fellow human or group of humans who are enduring challenges I am not.

Guilt or innocence is not the question - it is what are you going to do when others are suffering.

If you are in the field and you see a wounded animal, wounded by another hunter, do you do anything or do you say you aren't guilty of anything and move on? I have read grown men on this forum claim they were brought to tears over a wounded deer - how about a few tears for George Floyd, the blacks of Tulsa or rosewood . . and on an on . . . ? If you see an injured hiker, even one that made some bad decisions - do you do anything or do you say that they caused their own mess and walk away?

This is not about guilt or innocence, it is about awareness, empathy and grace for your fellow man.

I tend to keep religion and politics (and religion and hunting) separate, but it feels incomplete to not end with:

“This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you." John 15:12
"Truly I tell you, just as you did it to one of the least of these who are members of my family, you did it to me." Matthew 25:40

It's almost as if people need to read the story of the Good Samaritan all over again. Interestingly, the story is how Jesus answered someone asking, "Any who is my neighbor?" The question was posed in order narrow down the commandment to "Love your neighbor as yourself." Sounds like some here trying to justify turning a blind eye to others hurting in our nation/world. Whether you are religious or not, it's hard to argue with the lesson taught in the story. Love others, help others, treat others well, even if you aren't the cause of their suffering.

Luke 10 (NIV)
27 He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’[a]; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b]”

28 “You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”

29 But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”

 

[VikingsGuy]

We are all citizens of this great Republic. Our constitution is what keeps America, America.
We are all expected to be good citizens, we have our inalienable rights, protected by the bill of rights.
If some of us can't or won't be citizens and chose to break laws. Those are criminals.

Just for clarity's sake, criminals are still citizens who are protected by the constitution, its bill of rights, and the inalienable rights granted them by their creator - loitering, panhandling, spitting, driving with a broken taillight, even selling drugs or robbing a bank don't change that.

Ones race, Creed, nationality, or sex amalgam into American citizen and we must strive to straighten out abusers of our constitution rights.

Again for clarity's sake, hopefully we all agree that the "amalgam" or "melting pot" is not required for full citizenship - citizens may retain their uniqueness to the extent they wish.

Immigration is welcome and anyone can become an American citizen.

We agree on this one. Orderly immigration is bedrock of making and sustaining American greatness. It would be nice if the politicians on both sides quite playing hot potato with it.

If one does not like our country and our constitution, as it stands under God, there is also Emigration. Please don't let the door hit you in the butt as you go to your better place

Our constitution by its own terms affords revision and amendment when we "don't like it". Also, our Constitution does not reference God and in fact explicitly stands separate from one's faith.

 

[Handlebar]

Love others , help others and treat others well, even if you are not the cause of their suffering,

I ceraintly cannot argue with that and not to be holier than thou that is how I was raised , but I have a hard time for the collective guilt narrative that has been pushed along with the insinuation that if I do not agree with you than I am a racist. I am of the opinion regardless of where you come down on this issue that we all agree that having a permanent agitated underclass in this country does none of us any good, where we disagree is how we go forth to change that.

 

[Howie]

Just for clarity's sake, criminals are still citizens who are protected by the constitution, its bill of rights, and the inalienable rights granted them by their creator - loitering, panhandling, spitting, driving with a broken taillight, even selling drugs or robbing a bank don't change that.



Again for clarity's sake, hopefully we all agree that the "amalgam" or "melting pot" is not required for full citizenship - citizens may retain their uniqueness to the extent they wish.



We agree on this one. Orderly immigration is bedrock of making and sustaining American greatness. It would be nice if the politicians on both sides quite playing hot potato with it.



Our constitution by its own terms affords revision and amendment when we "don't like it". Also, our Constitution does not reference God and in fact explicitly stands separate from one's faith.

OK here we go Vikingguy. The constitution is worded with religion in it.

I didn't say crooks weren't protected by the constitution.

For clarity uniqueness is paramount, don't matter who or what you are be a citizen. Legal immigrants made america

 

[Hilljackoutlaw]

@Trial153 my version of speaking up is shown everyday by the way I live. I dont have to tout it

It's almost as if people need to read the story of the Good Samaritan all over again. Interestingly, the story is how Jesus answered someone asking, "Any who is my neighbor?" The question was posed in order narrow down the commandment to "Love your neighbor as yourself." Sounds like some here trying to justify turning a blind eye to others hurting in our nation/world. Whether you are religious or not, it's hard to argue with the lesson taught in the story. Love others, help others, treat others well, even if you aren't the cause of their suffering.

Luke 10 (NIV)
27 He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’[a]; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b]”

28 “You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”

29 But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”

Exactly!! So right on. How does a person achieve this. You achieve it with how you live your everyday life. At the office, driving to work, how you treat the cashier on your daily coffee stop, the example you set when taking care of a everyday issue, etc...

You dont achieve this by accusing every tom, dick, and harry or Suzy, Sally, and Martha thru mainstream media, newspaper, and social media of being the problem. Everyone should take a hard honest look around them tomorrow in their daily life and notice all the good happening right under their noses.

PS. You dont have to a Christian to do this.

 

[Wildabeest]

Our constitution is what keeps America, America

I’d submit that Americans are what keeps America, America. Or at least it should be.

 

[VikingsGuy]

The constitution is worded with religion in it.

God does not appear, Christ does not appear, Jesus does not appear, Christianity does not appear, etc, etc. The only religious reference besides the first amendment's prohibition of a government establishment of religion (which in the context of this discussion is a negative reference to your point), is the casual reference to a date as "in the year of our Lord 1787" - not exactly a religious re-affirmation.

I didn't say crooks weren't protected by the constitution.

I didn't necessarily know if you did or didn't that why I prefaced with "clarity's sake". It was just that way your third sentence defined "criminals" it was unclear whether that was exclusive of remaining a citizen. Your clarification is appreciated.

For clarity uniqueness is paramount, don't matter who or what you are be a citizen. Legal immigrants made America

And plenty of illegal ones too (and not just from Mexico and not just in the last 30 years).

 

[Zach]

God does not appear, Christ does not appear, Jesus does not appear, Christianity does not appear, etc, etc. The only religious reference besides the first amendment's prohibition of a government establishment of religion (which in the context of this discussion is a negative reference to your point), is the casual reference to a date as "in the year of our Lord 1787" - not exactly a religious re-affirmation.



I didn't necessarily know if you did or didn't that why I prefaced with "clarity's sake". It was just that way your third sentence defined "criminals" it was unclear whether that was exclusive of remaining a citizen. Your clarification is appreciated.


And plenty of illegal ones too (and not just from Mexico and not just in the last 30 years).

The Founding Fathers on Jesus, Christianity and the Bible

Statements From Founding Fathers and Early Statesmen on Jesus, Christianity, and the Bible For decades accusations against the Founding Fathers have abounded. One of the common criticisms is that the Founding Fathers were a collective group of atheists, agnostics, and or deists who wanted a...

wallbuilders.com

for your reading pleasure.

 

[Gerald Martin]

The Founding Fathers on Jesus, Christianity and the Bible

Statements From Founding Fathers and Early Statesmen on Jesus, Christianity, and the Bible For decades accusations against the Founding Fathers have abounded. One of the common criticisms is that the Founding Fathers were a collective group of atheists, agnostics, and or deists who wanted a...

wallbuilders.com

for your reading pleasure.

Pretty sure the last thread with this topic got locked. It was even a pretty good discussion that a few people had to derail. The path of this divergence leads quickly to the cliff edge.

 

[Howie]

God does not appear, Christ does not appear, Jesus does not appear, Christianity does not appear, etc, etc. The only religious reference besides the first amendment's prohibition of a government establishment of religion (which in the context of this discussion is a negative reference to your point), is the casual reference to a date as "in the year of our Lord 1787" - not exactly a religious re-affirmation.



I didn't necessarily know if you did or didn't that why I prefaced with "clarity's sake". It was just that way your third sentence defined "criminals" it was unclear whether that was exclusive of remaining a citizen. Your clarification is appreciated.


And plenty of illegal ones too (and not just from Mexico and not just in the last 30 years). G

You got me on the religion point brother, thanks for the clarification.

 

[Howie]

Sorry, but this is in direct contradiction to the premise that anyone in our country has the ability to effect change. That's why there are amendments to our Constitution.

Good Morning,
No contradiction, I'm for positive improvement, but there is also the door......JMHO.

 

[3855WIN]

Back to the article...”you’re judged, spat on, and called n——- time after time”

Just no. Are there random incidents? No doubt. Time after time? No way.
My son played HS football in Mississippi, class of 2016. After one game, he said he’d never heard the N word so much in his life. It was coming from the Black players on the other team. They were calling the opposition that, regardless of color.
As far as the doors into the outdoors industry, I have no idea and take him at his word. Chad is unique. He needs to use that to his advantage. I’ve watched a guy become famous by using a muzzleloader.
Racism on the river? Not around in the South, as it’s common for all races to fish. Is that a Pacific NW problem? Sounds like it. I have seen locals get territorial over public ground, regardless of race.
A Black young man that used to play sports with my son, just graduated from the Naval Academy. How did that happen? Easy. He was well raised and was a great kid and student all the way through. There’s no limit on what he will do in America.
Daughters best friend was over yesterday. She’s Black. Best kid in the school. Great parents. There is NO limit on what she’ll accomplish.

 

[JLS]

Good Morning,
No contradiction, I'm for positive improvement, but there is also the door......JMHO.

Who decides what is positive change and what is not? Not only is this contradictory, it’s also hypocritical.

 

[ignorethefringes]

Back to the article...”you’re judged, spat on, and called n——- time after time”

Just no. Are there random incidents? No doubt. Time after time? No way.
My son played HS football in Mississippi, class of 2016. After one game, he said he’d never heard the N word so much in his life. It was coming from the Black players on the other team. They were calling the opposition that, regardless of color.
As far as the doors into the outdoors industry, I have no idea and take him at his word. Chad is unique. He needs to use that to his advantage. I’ve watched a guy become famous by using a muzzleloader.
Racism on the river? Not around in the South, as it’s common for all races to fish. Is that a Pacific NW problem? Sounds like it. I have seen locals get territorial over public ground, regardless of race.
A Black young man that used to play sports with my son, just graduated from the Naval Academy. How did that happen? Easy. He was well raised and was a great kid and student all the way through. There’s no limit on what he will do in America.
Daughters best friend was over yesterday. She’s Black. Best kid in the school. Great parents. There is NO limit on what she’ll accomplish.

This is why I said I think that the most effective conversations happen with people we personally know. I have now talked to several people who have had many personal experiences with blatant racism that I would have never expected. And because I know them well enough, I know they have no reason to lie about it. These guys are soft spoken, professional, successful, etc., any and all traits that made me think, "I bet they've never had to deal with that nonsense." And I was wrong. One's perception does not alter another's reality.

 

[VikingsGuy]

The Founding Fathers on Jesus, Christianity and the Bible

Statements From Founding Fathers and Early Statesmen on Jesus, Christianity, and the Bible For decades accusations against the Founding Fathers have abounded. One of the common criticisms is that the Founding Fathers were a collective group of atheists, agnostics, and or deists who wanted a...

wallbuilders.com

for your reading pleasure.

There is a lot to unpack on the topic that you raise that I am not going to go in to in this thread, but will simply point out that "were the founder's Christian" was not the question that was asked.

 

[3855WIN]

I was officiating a track meet and saw an athlete I knew. He was a decent football player, not all state, but fairly good. I ask him if he was playing college ball. He replied, “Yes sir, I’m playing JUCO ball. I’ve gotta get up outta ——-“. Now his hometown is just an average small town. But it really hit home that for a kid like him, that very well may be the best chance in life he has. I think we need to improve on these opportunities as a society. For many young men, staying where they grew up is a prison sentence.
Obviously, not all can play ball. The military can be a great option. But what else can we do? 1 in 4 Black males go to prison. That has to change.