A growing problem

[westbranch]

Live within your means. If you're making $50k and the housing market is that insane, then move or find a different job.

I'd love to live on a popular lake in the area, but it's outrageously expensive to live on it. So I don't live on it.


Biggest cause of homelessness has to be drugs. But, it isn't anything like the homelessness you see in Mexico. They're usually blind or disabled, not like most homeless in the US who are able bodied people who just don't want to work. There's sooo many jobs right now. There isn't a reason to be out on the corner asking for money. Back in high-school, my boss offered jobs to homeless people, or people on the street corners with signs. And go figure, they never wanted a job, just a free handout...

I survived on $14/hr while going to college with enough left over to hunt almost every day. Just prioritized rent and food. Too many people think everything should be given to them.

Not sure how AirBNBs are the problem. Supply and Demand run the market, if there's a demand for vacation rentals, then people will purchase them. Sounds like you need more housing out there or you need to not look in the high end neighborhoods!

Real estate is so far from a free market running on supply from demand. AirBNBs are taking away from local long-term rental markets and it mainly affects people in low paying jobs such as tourism and hospitality. A lot of studies out there with details. For anyone that wants to vacation in western states it does affect you. I work in a professional services firm and we pay above average for the area and still have a hard time hiring. We will probably bump up our fees at least another 10% this next year due to local housing and needing to pay employees more. Cascading effect across communities. There are a ton of incentives out there encouraging behaviors in the housing market and so no reason we can't change those incentives to make improve housing in western states. For the majority of people buying 7-figure homes in the west those are not their only homes. I would bet its more common they are 3rd or 4th homes even. Something is wrong with the system when people are buying 4th homes for $3-4MM and only using it two weeks a year. I don't know what the answer is but thankfully there are people working on it. I know some people involved in this group locally:

Housing Solutions Partnership

Working on Solutions to increase the availability and affordability of housing in Kootenai County.

rhgip.com

 

[westbranch]

I don't know what the Mexican government/cartel did with them in Puerto Vallarta, but one year they were everywhere, then a couple year later, we went back and the whole place looked 100x better. No homeless people, and everything was cleaned up and looked really good. I even heard the cartel owns the bussing companies, and they got all new busses all the way around.

Sometimes when there is an issue I do ask my self how would the cartels handle this. WWPD? (Pablo)

 

[rjthehunter]

Real estate is so far from a free market running on supply from demand. AirBNBs are taking away from local long-term rental markets and it mainly affects people in low paying jobs such as tourism and hospitality. A lot of studies out there with details. For anyone that wants to vacation in western states it does affect you. I work in a professional services firm and we pay above average for the area and still have a hard time hiring. We will probably bump up our fees at least another 10% this next year due to local housing and needing to pay employees more. Cascading effect across communities. There are a ton of incentives out there encouraging behaviors in the housing market and so no reason we can't change those incentives to make improve housing in western states. For the majority of people buying 7-figure homes in the west those are not their only homes. I would bet its more common they are 3rd or 4th homes even. Something is wrong with the system when people are buying 4th homes for $3-4MM and only using it two weeks a year. I don't know what the answer is but thankfully there are people working on it. I know some people involved in this group locally:

Housing Solutions Partnership

Working on Solutions to increase the availability and affordability of housing in Kootenai County.

rhgip.com

I live in an area where there are a lot of people who have cabins. These cabins range from 800k-10 million. There are certain areas that have houses like this. Then there is the areas the locals live. Significantly different types of houses and neighborhoods. Prices from 200k-800k in the normal-large house area.

 

[westbranch]

I live in an area where there are a lot of people who have cabins. These cabins range from 800k-10 million. There are certain areas that have houses like this. Then there is the areas the locals live. Significantly different types of houses and neighborhoods. Prices from 200k-800k in the normal-large house area.

I am very familiar with cabin and lake country in MN. Grew up there and lived/worked there for 10 yrs before moving to Idaho. Still a lot of friends and family all over the state. Places like Coeur d'Alene, Bozeman, Kalispell/Whitefish, Aspen/Vail, Sun Valley, etc. are a completely different beast on real estate. The reason there are so many articles and studies going on about this is that there are no longer places for the locals to live.

 

[longbow51]

I have a close friend who quit her job to work at a Rescue Mission. She found that some were, indeed, down on their luck, but many more were gaming the system, going from Mission to Mission with no intention of working to provide for their families.

I still donate, because it's never the kid's fault they have unmotivated parents. She was shockingly disillusioned though.

This is, indeed, very different from the price of real estate, as several have pointed out.

 

[gouch]

The people who are actually dedicating their lives trying to do something about the homeless problem tend to feel that most homeless people are just people, down on their luck due to circumstances beyond their own control. And that all they need is a little help from society to get back on their feet.

Those of us only willing to dedicate only enough time to the problem that it takes to complain about it, tend to think most homeless people are just good for nothing lazy, drunks and drug addicts not worth the time of day. And no amount of help will change their lives.

Only when everyone is willing to accept the truth about the complexities of the problem will solutions ever be possible.

 

[BigHornRam]

Missoula has always had the biggest homeless problem in Montana. The more money they throw at it the bigger the problem becomes for some reason. First time I recall the voters in Missoula County vote down a tax levy. Looks like the people there have finally had enough.

Voters decline $5M annual crisis services levy in Missoula County

In early returns, a crisis services levy that would provide up to $5 million annually in dedicated funding to maintain and expand various services was losing by more than 1,500 votes.

missoulacurrent.com

 

[BucksnDucks]

The more money they throw at it the bigger the problem becomes for some reason.

Bingo! I would bet many, likely a majority of the Missoula homeless are from out of town. About half the homeless I've spoken with here are from out of state.
The more money and services (not shelters) offered the more people arrive to benefit.

 

[Bigjay73]

If you can't afford your current house, you probably aren't going to have the money to relocate to a more affordable area. Kind of a big shitball rolling down a shit hill. That being said, after too many violent interactions with "unhoused" on 16th st, I no longer have much if any empathy for them. Give me a solution to the problem and I'll follow lock-step.

 

[Bigjay73]

And it's crazy to me that there are homeless in Montana. How the hell do they survive the winters?

 

[BucksnDucks]

An interesting side note in my county. Just over 4 years ago the Camp Fire decimated an entire town. This was a huge disaster, displacing thousands of people. Working the fire and visiting aid centers I noticed more and more people each day taking advantage of the much-needed services and generosity flowing into the area. After a few days I heard of buses from Sacramento actually bringing people to the makeshift FIRE victim shelters and aid centers. The homeless from town (completely unaffected by fire) were lining up next to real fire victims for food, supplies, and money.
Since the fire there's been a pretty dramatic increase in homeless population. If you think it is people displaced/burned out, you would be mistaken. The County has turned into a destination for those looking to benefit from free food, monthly checks, pressure on law enforcement/prosecution to be passive on crime, oh yea and basically a flea market for drugs.

 

[Green Hunter]

You are right - there is no easy fix. These two items aren't directly correlated but they result from similar situations. Shipping people from one place to another is the NIMBY (Not in my back yard) solution. I doubt people who are homeless really want to be so. Yes, if housing is high then move but who is going to fill in that job that was just vacated at the same pay? People don't want to be told what to do with their rights but complain when housing is no longer available at a reasonable rate because there are so many vacation homes. I've thankfully never been in that situation but to the original message of the thread this continues to get worse. Affordable housing that everyone can have access to is a reasonable solution. Interesting that Vail Resorts recognized it and is investing in housing for their employees.

 

[rjthehunter]

If you can't afford your current house, you probably aren't going to have the money to relocate to a more affordable area. Kind of a big shitball rolling down a shit hill. That being said, after too many violent interactions with "unhoused" on 16th st, I no longer have much if any empathy for them. Give me a solution to the problem and I'll follow lock-step.

If you can't afford your current house, shouldn't you take the equity you do have an relocate? Housing market is up, if someone can't afford what they're in, they shouldn't have bought it in the first place, but they should have some equity to pull and sell. I would definitely say that staying shouldn't be an option if you can't afford it.

Like stated above, more assistance/handouts isn't the answer. It just causes more homeless to migrate there for the assistance/handouts. What's wild to me is that a lot of homeless people still have cell phones.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Interesting that Vail Resorts recognized it and is investing in housing for their employees.

HA

Vail decided it was easier to build another slum then pay people a decent wage.

 

[Bigjay73]

If you can't afford your current house, shouldn't you take the equity you do have an relocate? Housing market is up, if someone can't afford what they're in, they shouldn't have bought it in the first place, but they should have some equity to pull and sell. I would definitely say that staying shouldn't be an option if you can't afford it.

Like stated above, more assistance/handouts isn't the answer. It just causes more homeless to migrate there for the assistance/handouts. What's wild to me is that a lot of homeless people still have cell phones.

Never said anything about handouts, I'm all for deleting any programs that handout money and even making giving money to panhandlers a fineable act.

And house wasn't the right term, my intent was rented property

 

[Bigjay73]

HA

Vail decided it was easier to build another slum then pay people a decent wage.

But it's out of the kindness of their heart

 

[rke]

I made $14/hr in college in Bozeman. Lived pretty comfortably. Now rent has tripled, the same decidedly NON-high end $100k condos I looked at in college are $500k condos, and guess how much DOT engineering interns make. Still $14/hr. Sure they can work at T Bell for more, but if they want a career as an engineer they have to get that work experience.

No one is arguning inflation isn't happening in real time. The points being made are about how to responsably handle it. Those that have chosen to be a DOT engineer intern are choosing all of the effects that are the direct results of that choice (wages, availability of jobs, and such).

 

[BigHornRam]

And it's crazy to me that there are homeless in Montana. How the hell do they survive the winters?

More than a few that won't stay clean enough to be allowed in a shelter, freeze to death every winter.

 

[Marshian]

South Park had an episode on this over a decade ago

 

[Clam]

An additional component is the breakdown/absence of the traditional family structure.

i agree, drugs and overly generous handouts are certainly big contributors. Here in the Puget sound area they are housing the homeless drug addicts and mentally ill in hotels- adding more rooms all the time. Create demand, great! until you run out of rooms- and other peoples money.

A solution? Zero tolerance. Either get treatment in a supervised facility, or go to jail.