9th Circuit Ends California Ban on High-Capacity Magazines

[noharleyyet]

Especially when there are so many other factors that lead us to believe you are a scofflaw and degenerate, sir.

Obligatory snake in the wallet for ID lawyer joke...

 

[Woodrow F Call]

3.) It's none of your business how many rounds, magazines or high capacity mags I have so long as I am not using them in the commission of a crime.

While I can appreciate the "mind your business, I'll mind my own" sentiment, it does nothing to help the conversation with someone who doesn't already see the point. Putting this thought out there like this will only turn people off.

and, 4.) - a pistol with the form, fit, and function I am looking for just happens to come standard with a 17 round magazine and there is no reason for this simple fact alone to make me a felon.

Which is why we should have reasonable discussions with folks who don't already view why a 17 or 30 round magazine is reasonable. If you already believe these things, you need to find a good way to communicate with others who may not see this.

I am #1 in spades. I can't hit something when I'm calm, let alone if I'm stressed. But I solved that with a scatter gun not more ammo. I actually think with the family in the house I don't want to be spraying AR rounds all willy nilly trying to wing a bad guy.

If a "scattergun" won't penetrate a little drywall, it won't penetrate enough bad guy to stop the threat in the event the bad guy isn't worried about engaging an armed victim. Sometimes it works, sometimes it won't. If you penetrate enough bad guy and make hits, it will work.

 

[Irrelevant]

Looks up tests on that.
12 gauge more so. Unless its bird shot. Then it's useless actually stopping a threat. Fragmenting 223 is best medicine imo. Enough to do its job and leave plenty more. Bottom line is there is always a possibility of collateral damage from a gun shot.

You got any links, I didn't turn up any peer reviewed science on that. Just deaths via shotguns.

 

[Zach]

Totally agree and there's no reason to defend them past that with lame assed things like home invasion defense, invading Russian/Chinese army, body armor, to over-throw your own government, fox holes, etc. etc.

Have as many as you want because you can, spare me the reasons.

I'll keep as many as I want, spare me the excuses I don't need them.

 

[BuzzH]

I'll keep as many as I want, spare me the excuses I don't need them.

Fill your bunker with whatever you want...Jimmy crack corn.

 

[Zach]

Fill your bunker with whatever you want...Jimmy crack corn.

That is old school, all the way back to slavery days.

 

[BuzzH]

That is old school, all the way back to slavery days.

Yeah, and I'm old enough that we sang it during music class in grade school. Point?

 

[rwc101]

While Paul Harrell isn't peer reviewed, peer review is Paul Harrelled.

 

[Irrelevant]

While Paul Harrell isn't peer reviewed, peer review is Paul Harrelled.

I like the "Shotguns don't suck for home defense" and "Bird shot in you home defense shotgun"

 

[MTLabrador]

I like the "Shotguns don't suck for home defense" and "Bird shot in you home defense shotgun"

I’ve seen some deer killed with birdshot in a town setting where collateral damage was a concern. I wouldn’t worry at all about shooting a dude in a house with it...

 

[mtmuley]

I have a shotgun loaded with 00 buck for my wife. We live out if town and I am gone for work occasionally. I told her it will make a bit of a mess, but it will stop anyone. mtmuley

 

[mevertsen]

You got any links, I didn't turn up any peer reviewed science on that. Just deaths via shotguns.

Look up "FBI penetration standards"
Tons of information out there.

I am not sure about putting links on this site. If Big Fin ok's it, I have no problem posting various crime stats from the FBI.

Bottom line is choosing a self defense round/weapon/ammunition is no different than choosing a round for deer or elk.

The Nosler Partion, Berger VLD and VMax all work different for different animals and applications.

Similar to the annual discussions on here on other boards which discuss the validity of using 223 on deer and 243 on elk. You have to use the right bullet.

The faster a bullet is going, and the more fragile it is, and the closer the shot, the less it is going to penetrate and the more pieces it will break into, which will mean less chance of a part of that bullet going beyond what it first strikes to do more damage.

The particular reason I like AR's for defense is the ability to operate it very easily under stress, no recoil, and aility to put lots of rounds in a small area in a short amount of time without having to focus on another task such as working an action to reload.

 

[Zach]

Yeah, and I'm old enough that we sang it during music class in grade school. Point?

Just an observation Hoss, based on the old school vibe. And we're only a year or two apart if that, so I remember singing it too.

Ironically found a stash of .308 20 round magazines last night in my shop that I had bought during the Magpul mag drop prior to their exodus from Colorado.

 

[shootbrownelk]

Just an observation Hoss, based on the old school vibe. And we're only a year or two apart if that, so I remember singing it too.

Ironically found a stash of .308 20 round magazines last night in my shop that I had bought during the Magpul mag drop prior to their exodus from Colorado.

That's right, we have Magpul in Wyoming now. Best move they ever made, Weatherby too.

 

[Zach]

That's right, we have Magpul in Wyoming now. Best move they ever made, Weatherby too.

Yup, at least I can still drive up there.

 

[Irrelevant]

Look up "FBI penetration standards"
Tons of information out there.

I am not sure about putting links on this site. If Big Fin ok's it, I have no problem posting various crime stats from the FBI.

Bottom line is choosing a self defense round/weapon/ammunition is no different than choosing a round for deer or elk.

The Nosler Partion, Berger VLD and VMax all work different for different animals and applications.

Similar to the annual discussions on here on other boards which discuss the validity of using 223 on deer and 243 on elk. You have to use the right bullet.

The faster a bullet is going, and the more fragile it is, and the closer the shot, the less it is going to penetrate and the more pieces it will break into, which will mean less chance of a part of that bullet going beyond what it first strikes to do more damage.

The particular reason I like AR's for defense is the ability to operate it very easily under stress, no recoil, and aility to put lots of rounds in a small area in a short amount of time without having to focus on another task such as working an action to reload.

You're talking like I don't understand ballistics. My house is barely 10 yards from one end to the other. Under zero situations is 7 1/2 not sufficient to make a mess of anyone in it. However, it losing energy very fast and 2 sheets of sheet rock limit it's legality.

Not that I still live in town. But tell me how you're going to shoot that rifle (or that shotty with 00) in a suburban setting and not risk someone's else's life?

 

[Tradewind]

Especially when there are so many other factors that lead us to believe you are a scofflaw and degenerate, sir.

You're pretty funny today Lamb

 

[noharleyyet]

You're pretty funny today Lamb

...he's off duty.

 

[Tradewind]

Seems like a good time to get back to arguing about bear spray or bullets.....

Update: Handgun or Pistol Against Bear Attack: 93 cases, 97% Effective

Three failures out of 93 cases where guns were used to defend against bears translate to a 97% success rate for the use of guns against bears.

www.ammoland.com

 

[mevertsen]

You're talking like I don't understand ballistics. My house is barely 10 yards from one end to the other. Under zero situations is 7 1/2 not sufficient to make a mess of anyone in it. However, it losing energy very fast and 2 sheets of sheet rock limit it's legality.

Not that I still live in town. But tell me how you're going to shoot that rifle (or that shotty with 00) in a suburban setting and not risk someone's else's life?
View attachment 151000

I can't guarantee not risking someone else's life in this scenario. CAN'T DO IT.

But,...

Tell me how you're going to shoot 7 1/2 at someone and guarantee it stops them before they continue to wreck havoc in your house or the rest of the neighborhood? Do you expect dove loads to penetrate a heavy Carhart coat and reach the vitals? What about an obese person? Armor? Heavily armed themselves? Multiple people?I am sure it will still hurt, but a person on drugs or the scenarios above may not feel that pain.

I also have argued in this thread that I prefer 223 to 12 gauge. When I think 12 gauge, and personal defense, I think 00. 00 because it has the energy needed to reach vital organs and stop the person. I would still prefer 223 to 00 in the urban setting.

A fragmenting 223 in an AR gives me the best probability of hitting my target and the round fragmenting and staying in the target, with enough energy to STOP the target, and the lowest possibility of continuing on to the next house.

Like I said earlier, there is always the possibility of collateral damage. ALWAYS, every time we pull the trigger no matter what we are doing.

When my safety and the safety of my family is on the line, I want to STOP THE THREAT.

In regards to the ruling that started this thread, the 30 round magazines for an AR afford a person the best opportunity to stop the threat, with no reload, and without having to manipulate the action other than when the gun is first charged.

I know it sounds ds doom and gloom, that's not my intent.

Bottom line is criminals are being more criminal. News stories hit every night of people breaking into homes, innocent people killed.

This is a win for the second amendment. Its a win for law abiding citizens and its a loss for the criminals, who now at least know the playing field is leveled just a little bit against them.