98% Want to Ban Fat-Assed ATV Riders in Montana
- Thread starter JoseCuervo
- Start date
cjcj
New member
I posted this comment before,and all of the "ban atv" crowd seemed to "Clam up" here it is again, Why do the huge private ranches not have the ATV problems, that everyone here talks about? just looking for some insight, Opinions please.
JoseCuervo
New member
CJ,
Not sure which problem you are referring to, as ATV's cause a number of problems. As far as damage, it is doubtful that anyone would treat their own land that badly, but Public Land is there for the Trashing...
And I am not sure which "big ranches" you are thinking of. But, as it is Private Property, it is somewhat harder to Restrict aTVS. Even the new laws in Idaho, exempt private property from enforcement.
Not sure which problem you are referring to, as ATV's cause a number of problems. As far as damage, it is doubtful that anyone would treat their own land that badly, but Public Land is there for the Trashing...
And I am not sure which "big ranches" you are thinking of. But, as it is Private Property, it is somewhat harder to Restrict aTVS. Even the new laws in Idaho, exempt private property from enforcement.
Ithaca 37
New member
cj, Can you give us any links to articles about the huge private ranches that don't have problems?
"Why do the huge private ranches not have the ATV problems, that everyone here talks about?"
Maybe because they're private land and the ATV riders know they'll get in trouble if they're caught there. ATV riders are a lot more conscious of the trouble they can get in if they're caught tresspassing and ruining private land.
"Why do the huge private ranches not have the ATV problems, that everyone here talks about?"
Maybe because they're private land and the ATV riders know they'll get in trouble if they're caught there. ATV riders are a lot more conscious of the trouble they can get in if they're caught tresspassing and ruining private land.
cjcj
New member
No Ithaca i can`t give you any link`s thats why i am asking "you guys" i don`t know anything about those huge private ranches that you have up in montana/idaho but i have heard you guys mention them [ted turner etc.] the angle i`m looking for is "enforcment" just fishing.
Nemont
Well-known member
One reason private ranches, such as Ted Turners Flying D ranch, don't have atv problems is because he hires quite a few people to patrol and police his land. If you get caught trespassing on his land you get busted. No ranch owner would allow their land to be abused that way. Go look at a private ranch and see if you can find unauthorized trails. Then look at adjacent public land you will be startled by the difference
Look, I am not in favor of banning ATV's. We use them on our ranch for fenceing, moving cows etc. They are handy when used as a tool. When they are used to access places which should only be accessable on foot and in the process destroy public land they need to be highly regulated because some people who use atvs cannot seem to think about the consquence of their actions. Again the ATV's crowd has nobody to blame but themselves.
Nemont
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 11-25-2003 13:42: Message edited by: Nemont ]</font>
Look, I am not in favor of banning ATV's. We use them on our ranch for fenceing, moving cows etc. They are handy when used as a tool. When they are used to access places which should only be accessable on foot and in the process destroy public land they need to be highly regulated because some people who use atvs cannot seem to think about the consquence of their actions. Again the ATV's crowd has nobody to blame but themselves.
Nemont
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 11-25-2003 13:42: Message edited by: Nemont ]</font>
I really don't know for sure where I stand concerning ATV's, I will post a pic as soon as I finish off the roll, that shows a CLOSED road in my elk unit that had been driven on by several 4x4 trucks
All the closed roads had Truck tracks
And I mean every last one!!!!
I never encountered a single ATV in that area in 3 days.
So I guess I would want more spent on enforcement, before more is spent on new regulations.
there are some areas and situations where where using atv's isn't a big deal, and other areas and situations where it is a big deal, I,m not sure what the anwser is.
I purchased mine in 2000 for snow removal at my work and to use on our ranch fencing,
this is the first year that I have purchased the off road sticker you have to have if you use it on public ground, I still have under 500 miles on it
and 400 of that is from plowing snow.
I know that I wouldn't have wanted to be riding that thing on opening day of my elk hunt, it was way to friggin cold -5, that sucker would have been misserable
bbbrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!!!
I never encountered a single ATV in that area in 3 days.
So I guess I would want more spent on enforcement, before more is spent on new regulations.
there are some areas and situations where where using atv's isn't a big deal, and other areas and situations where it is a big deal, I,m not sure what the anwser is.
I purchased mine in 2000 for snow removal at my work and to use on our ranch fencing,
this is the first year that I have purchased the off road sticker you have to have if you use it on public ground, I still have under 500 miles on it
I know that I wouldn't have wanted to be riding that thing on opening day of my elk hunt, it was way to friggin cold -5, that sucker would have been misserable
Ithaca 37
New member
How'd the trucks get on the closed roads? Were they FS or BLM trucks?
I thought Elkgunner, Buzz, 1 pointer and a few others had made it real clear where you should stand concerning ATVs!
Haven't you been reading SI for the last year?
I thought Elkgunner, Buzz, 1 pointer and a few others had made it real clear where you should stand concerning ATVs!
ktc- I would, but not being mormon or ultra concervative would hurt any (read none) chance I would have. BTW, I drove through Lehi today for work. Five Mile Pass is horrible. I'll try to get some pics from there in the next couple of weeks to show the other's what we're complaining about here in UT.
Utards...I love it!!!
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 11-25-2003 21:32: Message edited by: 1_pointer ]</font>
Utards...I love it!!!
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 11-25-2003 21:32: Message edited by: 1_pointer ]</font>
Spikie,
Oh no!
Don't show 'em 5 mile
.
Is that a joke or what? They could shut that down out there and it would take 100 years to heal the wounds!
5 mile used to be some old stompin' grounds for rabbits, chukars, cougar, and deer. No more! It is a damn race track infested with people and ATV's.
Bullshit I say!
Oh no!
Is that a joke or what? They could shut that down out there and it would take 100 years to heal the wounds!
Ithaca.......read slow
My point in the above thread is that there are alot of other problems besides atv's.
There are just as many guys who drive there 4x4 trucks any damn place they feel they need to go..
I am not against stopping people from tearing the hell out of things.
In anwser to your question weather or not it was forest circus or blm driving those closed areas.....no it was hunters.
the one road I took a pic of had truck tracks leading to a gut pile
lazy shmucks
I would like to hear all you folks who scream about atv's include all the lazy shmucks who are doing the same thing with 4x4 trucks........
My point in the above thread is that there are alot of other problems besides atv's.
There are just as many guys who drive there 4x4 trucks any damn place they feel they need to go..
I am not against stopping people from tearing the hell out of things.
In anwser to your question weather or not it was forest circus or blm driving those closed areas.....no it was hunters.
the one road I took a pic of had truck tracks leading to a gut pile
lazy shmucks
I would like to hear all you folks who scream about atv's include all the lazy shmucks who are doing the same thing with 4x4 trucks........
If you have read my posts you will see that the problem we have is too many roads.
Now, I could care less what is being drove, ATV's, trucks, Jeeps, or motorcyles. The problem we have is the acces is to great. ATV's have magnified the problem. The reason, they can travel any road at a high rate of speed.
I refuse to argue the ethics involved. It is always the other guy who causes the problem. It is not you or me or anyone you know. But, for some unknown reason the abuse, rather than the use, of ATV's continues to be a growing problem.
The states and National Forest people have got to limit the amount of roads, plain and simple. For some of us we would like to go hunt. Not take a Sunday drive through prime hunting areas with gun in tow. Unfortunately, in many areas, this is the case because the mountains are infested with roads and motorized vehicle.
Four wheelers have been the biggest detriment to this sport that I can think of in the last 15 years.
Now, I could care less what is being drove, ATV's, trucks, Jeeps, or motorcyles. The problem we have is the acces is to great. ATV's have magnified the problem. The reason, they can travel any road at a high rate of speed.
I refuse to argue the ethics involved. It is always the other guy who causes the problem. It is not you or me or anyone you know. But, for some unknown reason the abuse, rather than the use, of ATV's continues to be a growing problem.
The states and National Forest people have got to limit the amount of roads, plain and simple. For some of us we would like to go hunt. Not take a Sunday drive through prime hunting areas with gun in tow. Unfortunately, in many areas, this is the case because the mountains are infested with roads and motorized vehicle.
Four wheelers have been the biggest detriment to this sport that I can think of in the last 15 years.
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> I would like to hear all you folks who scream about atv's include all the lazy shmucks who are doing the same thing with 4x4 trucks........ <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I think it is a given. I would bet money that everyone here that is against illegal off-road use by quads is also against illegal off-road pickup use.
I think most everyone is a lot closer in their opinions on these topics, but apparently some folks enjoy arguing more than they do agreeing.
I think it is a given. I would bet money that everyone here that is against illegal off-road use by quads is also against illegal off-road pickup use.
I think most everyone is a lot closer in their opinions on these topics, but apparently some folks enjoy arguing more than they do agreeing.
Ithaca 37
New member
Well, if we agree, then the topic is finished.
It's the arguments that keep this section going and, once in awhile, somebody learns something during all the posting and debating. I've learned a lot here.
Ten Bears
New member
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> I think it is a given. I would bet money that everyone here that is against illegal off-road use by quads is also against illegal off-road pickup use. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The question is why do we need more laws, if we can't enforce the ones we already have. We need to take a more effective approach.
The question is why do we need more laws, if we can't enforce the ones we already have. We need to take a more effective approach.
JoseCuervo
New member
I agree with Ten. LEt's just have one law, that bans all ATV's from all Public Lands from August 1 to July 31 of each year.
Then it makes enforcement easier, and nobody can say the sign was missing. Thanks for the great idea Ten, this may be the best idea you have ever had.
Then it makes enforcement easier, and nobody can say the sign was missing. Thanks for the great idea Ten, this may be the best idea you have ever had.
Ithaca 37
New member
Ten, Yup, that's a good idea. In fact, considering the source, it's a GREAT idea!
cjcj
New member
Ten Bears makes a good point, what the hell good is it to pass another law, if you can`t enforce the ones already on the books? This is a problem thruout our society, one law is being abused, so lets pass another one, it just doesn`t make sense.
JoseCuervo
New member
Yep CJ, you are on the right track. Let's get rid of the myriad of laws,and just have a single law, banning ATVs from Public Lands from August 1 to July 31 of each year.
I am with you on this one CJ. Thanks to you and Ten for coming up with this great idea. One law, to ban 'em all!
I am with you on this one CJ. Thanks to you and Ten for coming up with this great idea. One law, to ban 'em all!
Washington Hunter
Well-known member
ATV's should just be treated like any other vehicle. I don't see any reason to ban them from public lands, as long as they are used only on the roads that all other motor vehicles use. Why is a Jeep ok, but not an ATV? What is the difference? I'm wondering what the forest service rules are in other states...here in Washington, some (if not all) national forest lands require vehicles to be street legal to be used on forest service roads. Therefore, ATV's are not legal on these national forests, at all. Is this not the case in other states? I realize BLM lands are pretty much wide open for ATV use, but it seems like national forests are not, at least in Washington. I really think they should allow ATV's on the maintained roads, and just not allow them anywhere else. But oh well, it doesn't really matter, because I think people ride their ATV's on forest service roads anyway, whether it's legal or not.
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