6.5 CM as a hunting cartridge... why?

Interesting. I had not thought of it that way. So, if I'm reading you correctly you are meaning that any mono that doesn't exit the muzzle north of 2,800 FPS will not expand?

I dont think that's what he's saying. More along the lines of at modest velocities used with some of the "harder" monos one shouldn't be surprised if they get uninspiring terminal performance.

Is a bullet expanded if the tip just deforms a little? Whatever you want to call it, a bullet that looks like the 3 below isn't going to be impressive terminally unless they also happen to tumble.

etip.jpg
 
IMG_8634 (2).jpgDunno why the debate, a 6.5CM is just another tool in the toolbox (or toy in the toy box according to the Mrs). This year's bull took his last drink before being introduced to it, and he didn't seem to mind! 🤷‍♂️

The prior year's bull succumbed to a .350 Rem Mag...one trigger tug for each. Tomato-Tomahto
 
No what I think buzz is saying that if your not pushing that mono faster than 2800 fps at the muzzle than your shooting distance for reliable expansion is very limited. Less than 400 yards usually. Which is 200 yards less the long range slayers a taking deer.

this is why I want a .257 wby to still have 2000 fps at 4-500 yards and shooting monos

Barnes is pretty good if you call them up about give minimum velocity for reliable expansion.
 
Interesting. I had not thought of it that way. So, if I'm reading you correctly you are meaning that any mono that doesn't exit the muzzle north of 2,800 FPS will not expand?
No, the mono's will expand under 2800 FPS but the slower they go, the more likely they are not to, IME. So if they're starting at 2800 and you shoot very far at all, you're going to have trouble with expansion.

From what I've seen, I would not shoot a 140 E-tip less than 3200 from the barrel, and I wouldn't shoot much over 350, 400 yards at the very most unless I could get them to shoot faster.

I just don't care to be tracking an elk around the country side with a pencil hole in it.
 
No, the mono's will expand under 2800 FPS but the slower they go, the more likely they are not to, IME. So if they're starting at 2800 and you shoot very far at all, you're going to have trouble with expansion.

From what I've seen, I would not shoot a 140 E-tip less than 3200 from the barrel, and I wouldn't shoot much over 350, 400 yards at the very most unless I could get them to shoot faster.

I just don't care to be tracking an elk around the country side with a pencil hole in it.
Yup, IME mono's like Barnes tend to act like high velocity arrows as far as wound channel goes, especially beyond 350.
 
No, the mono's will expand under 2800 FPS but the slower they go, the more likely they are not to, IME. So if they're starting at 2800 and you shoot very far at all, you're going to have trouble with expansion.

From what I've seen, I would not shoot a 140 E-tip less than 3200 from the barrel, and I wouldn't shoot much over 350, 400 yards at the very most unless I could get them to shoot faster.

I just don't care to be tracking an elk around the country side with a pencil hole in it.
I went back and looked at my data from the last 6.5 CM I was loading for, and I was getting 3100 fps out of 100 grain TTSX's, and only 2850 fps. with 120 TTSX's and a miserable 2600 fps. with 143 ELD-X's. This was all with H4350. The only one I would have considered hunting with was the 100 grain TTSX's and I just wasn't that interested in flinging 100 grain monos at a 300 lb. critter in nasty north woods. So my .308 got the job all last season, with a few trips toting the 30-30 for nostalgia's sake.
 
I went back and looked at my data from the last 6.5 CM I was loading for, and I was getting 3100 fps out of 100 grain TTSX's, and only 2850 fps. with 120 TTSX's and a miserable 2600 fps. with 143 ELD-X's. This was all with H4350. The only one I would have considered hunting with was the 100 grain TTSX's and I just wasn't that interested in flinging 100 grain monos at a 300 lb. critter in nasty north woods. So my .308 got the job all last season, with a few trips toting the 30-30 for nostalgia's sake.
I would seriously consider the 124 Hammer Hunter. I used 130 TTSX in my 270 win, got 2900-3000 fps out of it. 126 HH I am getting 3240 fps and way better terminal performance.
IME, I was getting pressure early with Barnes. Hammers you can generally push hard. The load data tab on their website is pretty accurate https://hammerbullets.com/load-data/

It used to be where they were quite a bit more expensive than the Barnes, but that gap has closed. Barnes most of the times are ~$50 for 50 bullets, where as Hammers are ~$60 ish.
 
No, the mono's will expand under 2800 FPS but the slower they go, the more likely they are not to, IME. So if they're starting at 2800 and you shoot very far at all, you're going to have trouble with expansion.

From what I've seen, I would not shoot a 140 E-tip less than 3200 from the barrel, and I wouldn't shoot much over 350, 400 yards at the very most unless I could get them to shoot faster.

I just don't care to be tracking an elk around the country side with a pencil hole in it.
15 ish years ago California said we had to use em and every deer I had shot till then was with a core locker and had gone less than 100 yards. First one shot with a solid we spent half the day looking for. 30 entrance and exit. 200 ish yards with 160 something Gr solid out of a 30-06. Mv was in the 28’s I’m guessing. A year or two in the consensus was to shoot em in the shoulder to get em to expand. Supposedly the technology is better now. But I still remember pulling the ticks from 4 hours of blood trailing thru a jungle.
 
I shot this buck with a 6.5 Grendel, 150 yards right in the sweet spot with a 123gr. SST. He walked off like nothing happened. Caught up to him 80-100 yards later and hit him again in the neck. Put the rifle away and haven’t used it since 2014. This thread has me thinking I need to give it another shot with a different bullet. IMG_5401.jpeg
 
I would seriously consider the 124 Hammer Hunter. I used 130 TTSX in my 270 win, got 2900-3000 fps out of it. 126 HH I am getting 3240 fps and way better terminal performance.
IME, I was getting pressure early with Barnes. Hammers you can generally push hard. The load data tab on their website is pretty accurate https://hammerbullets.com/load-data/
Well at this point I've stepped away (for the 3rd time) from the 6.5 CM, having sold my last barrel just days ago. Still have a bunch of components that I might sell and might keep, depending on how I feel any given day. I can see a situation if I ever have grandkids (still waiting!) that I may want to hand one a 6.5 CM and load for it, but for me personally I've lost interest in the round. Like you, I was getting much higher velocities from Hammers and could push them pretty good. 131's from my 7mm-08 at 3100 fps were lightning on the two deer I shot with them. Great bullets.
 
I shot this buck with a 6.5 Grendel, 150 yards right in the sweet spot with a 123gr. SST. He walked off like nothing happened. Caught up to him 80-100 yards later and hit him again in the neck. Put the rifle away and haven’t used it since 2014. This thread has me thinking I need to give it another shot with a different bullet. View attachment 356814
SST is generally a really expansive (explosive?) bullet, even more so than ELDX and ELDM. I know those have problems in close range, high velocity scenarios. For example, my brother shot a bull with a 145 ELDX (270 Win) at around 80-90 yds this year and the bullet didn't exit.
 
Agree. The magic pixie dust..;)
I’m using it in my 22CM’s, and both my 6.5 SAUM’s and both 6.5 PRC’s.
I use 139’s also, getting 3060fps with my lightweight PRC that has a 20” barrel(suppressed).
I’m glad I squirreled a bunch of it away before it became almost impossible to find.
Magic pixie dust indeed. Combined w/ the 139's is a pretty accurate/fast combo @ 200m.1.jpg
 
I shot this buck with a 6.5 Grendel, 150 yards right in the sweet spot with a 123gr. SST. He walked off like nothing happened. Caught up to him 80-100 yards later and hit him again in the neck. Put the rifle away and haven’t used it since 2014. This thread has me thinking I need to give it another shot with a different bullet. View attachment 356814
Nice buck.

I shot several whitetails with a Howa Mini 6.5 Grendel and was not impressed. Damn accurate rifle though. Most accurate rifle I've ever owned. Those deer were shot with 130 Sierra Gamechangers over LeverEvolution (great combo, but dirty) and also 100 Nosler Ballistic Tips over CFE BLK. Only one out of five deer fell within sight. I concluded there just wasn't enough velocity to create sufficient shock. But some folks love their 6.5 Grendels and in my experience the SST bullets are just outstanding for deer, so who am I to say.
 
and yet they are both available in 6.5 and in loaded 6.5 ammo, so we're not the only ones who have considered them.
You are missing the point. The ELDX requires far less impact velocity for reliable upset and expansion than a TSX or other mono bullet. In addition, it has a higher BC and will retain down range velocity much better. So to compare the MV between them is rather meaningless.

This is a 143 ELDX with a MV of 2600. Based on a minimum expansion velocity of 1500 FPS you still have a half mile gun.

IMG_2045.png
 
You are missing the point. The ELDX requires far less impact velocity for reliable upset and expansion than a TSX or other mono bullet. In addition, it has a higher BC and will retain down range velocity much better. So to compare the MV between them is rather meaningless.

This is a 143 ELDX with a MV of 2600. Based on a minimum expansion velocity of 1500 FPS you still have a half mile gun.
I think everyone knows the ELD-X requires far less impact velocity, unless they've been living under a rock. I think everyone also knows the ELD-X has a much higher BC.

I come to this game with some old fashioned biases. I'll be the first to admit that. But when I see 2600 fps over a chrono, it reminds me of my 6.5 Grendel and the trouble it had dropping all the deer I shot with it. So, not really confidence inspiring. Up here in the north woods, I only get one buck tag/year and the deer are big and the woods are dark and hard to get through. So I am not interested in marginal terminal ballistics. When I was hunting out west and could see where a deer ran and could expect longer shots, my criteria were different.
 
SST is generally a really expansive (explosive?) bullet, even more so than ELDX and ELDM. I know those have problems in close range, high velocity scenarios. For example, my brother shot a bull with a 145 ELDX (270 Win) at around 80-90 yds this year and the bullet didn't exit.
I shot my whitetail buck this year at 75-80 yards with a 140gr. Nosler Accubond out of a 7mm Rem Mag at around 3200 fps right on the point of the front shoulder. No exit and the deer was very, very dead. Though I'd swear the bullet just about evaporated, never found it when skinning or butchering. I think it can happen with pretty much anything going real fast and real short range.
 

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