300 win mag vs 300prc vs 30 nosler vs 300 RUM

[NDGuy]

Way further than most will ever pull the trigger on an elk. mtmuley

And should

 

[BAKPAKR]

Because they go really fast!

And they don’t kick as much!

124 125 gr Hammer Hunters in 300 RUM:

 

[BackofBeyond]

And they don’t kick as much!

125 gr Hammer Hunters in 300 RUM:

View attachment 253425

I’m pretty sure you’ve told me, but what powder are you using in that load?

 

[BAKPAKR]

I’m pretty sure you’ve told me, but what powder are you using in that load?

H4831sc at about 3800 fps. I was close to 4000 with Retumbo when my chrono quit reading. I have read that H4350 works well with the 125s in the RUM, but since I have obtained more of that, I have been shooting my 30 N.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

No offense but those numbers in the articles are worthless for a comparison. Maybe if you just shoot factory ammo they might mean something but for the handloader, not much.

Run these numbers through a ballistic calculator….

156 Berger at 3067
180 Berger at 3030
215 Berger at 3100

I know the 7mm prc is the new shiny thing but realize a properly throated 7mm rem or the 7lrm are both as/more capable on just pure ballistics. I won’t even get into the 28 Nosler.

You have to be careful with articles that pick bullets and velocities to make a cartridge look better compared to the others. The same articles were written when the 6.5 and 300prcs came out. It’s called marketing.

I’m not sure how your selected numbers are any more applicable than what hornady loads their own cartridges to. Do you think hornady handicapped their 300prc and 6.5 PRC loads to make the 7 look better?

I don’t think the 7 is miles above the others but as far as hornady bullets go, the 7 chambering is going to look good no matter what because the 180 ELDm is just slick as fook for its weight and the 6.5s and 30s can’t hang. Not so much with Bergers.

 

[Bullbrl]

I’m not sure how your selected numbers are any more applicable than what hornady loads their own cartridges to. Do you think hornady handicapped their 300prc and 6.5 PRC loads to make the 7 look better?

I don’t think the 7 is miles above the others but as far as hornady bullets go, the 7 chambering is going to look good no matter what because the 180 ELDm is just slick as fook for its weight and the 6.5s and 30s can’t hang. Not so much with Bergers.

Did you read the article that was posted as reference? In that article they were comparing hornady 225 in the 300prc at 2800fps and 6.5 with 147 at 2900....seriously, I guess that would make this new 7prc look really good.

As far as the 6.5 and 30's not being able to "hang" with the 7prc, I'm not sure how you can say that. Put your 180 eldm (.401 g7) against the 156 or 215 at my numbers above and tell me the 7prc is better.

If you're comparing factory ammo, maybe, but anyone who is trying to get the most from their cartridge and is into all these numbers isn't going to be shooting factory ammo.

 

[belshawelk]

When it comes to killing elk at reasonable ranges (perhaps to 500 yards) they certainly are.

And let’s look at the Hodgdon reloading manual for these 4 cartridges with 200gr projectiles and the fastest speed with a Hodgdon powder.

300 Win Mag 2962fps
300 PRC 2916fps
30 Nosler 2943fps
300 RUM 3048fps

Or look at Nosler load data.

300 Win Mag 2989fps
300 PRC No data
30 Nosler 3080fps
300 RUM 3185fps

Looks pretty similar to me. And a 200 fps difference between the slowest and the fastest won’t make a difference within 500 yards when it comes to killing an elk.

Well here I go again. Velocity is great like a 22-250 and .243 but it isnt what kills. Its a part of it yes. If velocity is what kills I would use my .243 at over 3900 FPS on elk. Yes it matters and a lot, but a heavy bullet moving fast with a crap load of energy is what kills better. More deader as I say.

The .30 Nosler, RUM and PRC all beat the WM by a large margin. For me it s the .30 Nosler. I have a 300WM and its fine. But there is enough difference with the others that a marginal shot has a higher chance of killing than a 300WM. Just like a 300WMh is better than a 30-06 or .308. I shoot a 200GR Barns LRX out of my .30 Nosler over 3000FPS at muzzle and over 3000FPE at 300 yards, and If I wanted too but I wont still carries 2081PFS and 1923PFE at 700 yards. At my ranges it breaks both shoulders on any elk or bear. Deader

 

[mxracer317]

If those were the only choices I would never hunt elk. Problem being I hate shooting magnum cartridges, recoil sucks! I can think of a number of different cartridge's with far less recoil that would work just as well. Of course if recoil just doesn't bother you, seems it doesn't bother many, then I suspect each cartridge will work well! The animals killed with one will be just as dead as the animals killed with one of the other's. The cartridges mentioned you should go out and shoot. There is no magic in a cartridge but there is in the shooter's ability to handle the cartridge choosen.

Invest in a limbsaver pad and a suppressor on the 300winmag and it will be like shooting a .22lr I know by experience and absolutely love both of those add-ons.

 

[Don Fischer]

Invest in a limbsaver pad and a suppressor on the 300winmag and it will be like shooting a .22lr I know by experience and absolutely love both of those add-ons.

I've used my 6.5x06 on elk, three elk in three shots and only investment required was bullets, powder and primerss. Ditto my 30-06. You can only kill something so dead!

 

[mxracer317]

I've used my 6.5x06 on elk, three elk in three shots and only investment required was bullets, powder and primerss. Ditto my 30-06. You can only kill something so dead!

Yep. Just saying it takes the kick out of a magnum.

 

[tzone]

The only one that will really show you any gains in FPS over what you have now is the 300 RUM. If you just want a different rifle I'd get the 300 PRC or a 30-06.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Did you read the article that was posted as reference? In that article they were comparing hornady 225 in the 300prc at 2800fps and 6.5 with 147 at 2900....seriously, I guess that would make this new 7prc look really good.

I had read that article previously and might have mixed it up with a different one. I thought it used the published hornady match ammo velocities but it turns out it was a little off favoring the 7mm, so you are correct.
6.5 147gr - 2910 FPS - 10 FPS faster than in the article
300 225 gr - 2810 FPS - 10 FPS faster than in the article
7 180 gr - 2975 FPS - 25 FPS slower than in the article

It would seem reasonable to compare the best factory loads from the company that designed and markets all these cartridges. More so in the case of the PRCs than any other group of cartridges because they were all designed over optimizing with the sleekest bullets without regard to outdated SAMMI COAL restrictions. The endless rabbit holes of aftermarket chambers or handloading differences are not at play as much because they were designed appropriately from the start.

As far as the 6.5 and 30's not being able to "hang" with the 7prc, I'm not sure how you can say that. Put your 180 eldm (.401 g7) against the 156 or 215 at my numbers above and tell me the 7prc is better.

I think we probably agree more than we disagree that the 7prc basically falls in line with the other PRCs when it comes to ballistics. My point was just that the 180 ELDm is a difference maker strictly from a crunching #'s standpoint and that isn't the case when comparing berger options. To beat a 180 eld in BC you've basically gotta go 230+ grain Atip or 338 and then to get a similar velocity you need to burn a shitload of powder from a huge case with and get lots of recoil. Compared to your sample #s, a 180 ELDm @ 3000 FPS is going to put out numbers that look better to me even with a slower MV due to lower wind deflection. Also, those example numbers are hot loads for the 6.5 and 300 that i wouldn't set as my expectations if building one. I don't have as much experience to say with the 7.

My basic world view on cartridges is smaller capacity = less finicky, more consistent and getting a high BC bullet to a decent speed without having to be overbore as hell = winning. A 180 isn't the heaviest for caliber bullet available and if you can push it slower than a comparable 6.5 or 300 and still beat both in wind drift, that's a nice balance IMO.

 

[Lnewton]

300 win mag for me but I dont reload. I can walk in almost any walmart and pick up a box 180 grain rounds and quality factory loads are at most sporting goods stores. I shoot pretty often and ammo availability is king.

 

[mtmuley]

All the concern and importance that you see hunters put into ballistics is interesting. On longrangehunting, a site dedicated to long range shots on big game, I believe around 95% of the members that responded to a poll never take a shot at a big game animal over 600 yards. mtmuley

 

[Lnewton]

All the concern and importance that you see hunters put into ballistics is interesting. On longrangehunting, a site dedicated to long range shots on big game, I believe around 95% of the members that responded to a poll never take a shot at a big game animal over 600 yards. mtmuley

You are probably correct, my furthest shot on an animal was a wild boar this year at 323. Before that was a bull elk at 275. Both dead. Have been hoping for a longer shot but most of the time I find myself inside 100 yards. Just shoot targets at further distance.

 

[Addicting]

All the concern and importance that you see hunters put into ballistics is interesting. On longrangehunting, a site dedicated to long range shots on big game, I believe around 95% of the members that responded to a poll never take a shot at a big game animal over 600 yards. mtmuley

5% club. Not sure if that is an achievement or not.

 

[mtmuley]

5% club. Not sure if that is an achievement or not.

No kidding. I've also noticed when animals are posted on threads on various other sites I look at, the yardage is usually included in the title. Or it is the first question in the first response. mtmuley

 

[Addicting]

No kidding. I've also noticed when animals are posted on threads on various other sites I look at, the yardage is usually included in the title. Or it is the first question in the first response. mtmuley

A 7 mag with a lower BC 150g bullet did what folks are scrambling to buy a 7 PRC to do.

All that is really needed is a good bullet, knowledge, and practice. If it wasn’t for having to rebore my Sherman chamber I would have no need for a PRC.

 

[Bullbrl]

I had read that article previously and might have mixed it up with a different one. I thought it used the published hornady match ammo velocities but it turns out it was a little off favoring the 7mm, so you are correct.
6.5 147gr - 2910 FPS - 10 FPS faster than in the article
300 225 gr - 2810 FPS - 10 FPS faster than in the article
7 180 gr - 2975 FPS - 25 FPS slower than in the article

It would seem reasonable to compare the best factory loads from the company that designed and markets all these cartridges. More so in the case of the PRCs than any other group of cartridges because they were all designed over optimizing with the sleekest bullets without regard to outdated SAMMI COAL restrictions. The endless rabbit holes of aftermarket chambers or handloading differences are not at play as much because they were designed appropriately from the start.



I think we probably agree more than we disagree that the 7prc basically falls in line with the other PRCs when it comes to ballistics. My point was just that the 180 ELDm is a difference maker strictly from a crunching #'s standpoint and that isn't the case when comparing berger options. To beat a 180 eld in BC you've basically gotta go 230+ grain Atip or 338 and then to get a similar velocity you need to burn a shitload of powder from a huge case with and get lots of recoil. Compared to your sample #s, a 180 ELDm @ 3000 FPS is going to put out numbers that look better to me even with a slower MV due to lower wind deflection. Also, those example numbers are hot loads for the 6.5 and 300 that i wouldn't set as my expectations if building one. I don't have as much experience to say with the 7.

My basic world view on cartridges is smaller capacity = less finicky, more consistent and getting a high BC bullet to a decent speed without having to be overbore as hell = winning. A 180 isn't the heaviest for caliber bullet available and if you can push it slower than a comparable 6.5 or 300 and still beat both in wind drift, that's a nice balance IMO.

I guess I just get really tired of all these new cartridges that get marketed to people using numbers that aren’t apples to apples to make them look better. It gets old real quick.

The numbers I quoted are my own numbers for my 6.5-284 (custom chamber reamer) and that is .7 grains lower than pressure signs and a 30nos with custom chamber that could be pushed faster with 570 or RL26 if I wanted.

You are correct about smaller capacity being easier to tune and keep in tune.

Again, I don’t care about factory ammo. If I want max performance and consistency I’m only interested in handloads.

 

[noharleyyet]

We had a gal in elk camp last month that was there to hunt mule deer. She had a GunWerks Christensen, braked with a folding tac looking butt stock, carbon barrel, & a Hubble high dollar sunshaded Vortex almost as long as the fore-chassis and receiver...I forget the caliber, maybe one of the new brand 300's, but the rig was balanced and not as unwieldly as it looked.

Told me she took the 1000 yard class...shot her buck at 80 yards, but I didn't doubt her capability.

*edit to correct rifle make