zfountaine55
Active member
Looking into getting a new rifle and am intrigued by the .280 Ackley. Understand that handloading would be a must and that's not a problem, just wondering if anyone has any experience/opinions on it.
.280 Ackley Improved
- Thread starter zfountaine55
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OKED
Active member
Actually you can fire standard 280 rounds in one that is how you fireform brass.Same ballistics as a 7mm rem mag with less powder and no belt on the case. I think it is the most improved of all the ackleys ever developed.
Get a 1-9" twist in the barrel and you'll be good to go up to 180 gr bullets. You can push 3000 fps with 168 gr bullets. Best all around cartridge in my opinion in a non magnum cartridge - less recoil, great bullet selection, and very adequate performance/power.
Bambistew
Well-known member
There's no flys on the standard 280. Load it to match 270win pressures and it will perform similar. The AI is not going to net you anymore than about 50-75fps at most over the standard, it can't, unless you load it past spec pressure. The gain in case volume isn't enough to warrant any more velocity than that. Some load manuals will show dramatic increase in velocity, but thats because the pressure spec for the AI is higher and they're showing light loads for the standard 280. I get around 2900-2925 fps with a 160gr Accubond in a standard. Noslers load book list loads 50-75fps faster for the AI... You lose that much velocity in 25-40 yards.
Who makes 180gr bullets in .284? I've been loading .284s for almost 20 years and havn't run across a 180gr bullet yet, or why you would want to use one?
I have a couple AI cartridges and another "improved" cartridge. I'll never do another, its fun to tinker but for me not worth it in the end. I've yet to experience the mythical extended case life 'factor'. Primer pocket stretch, and neck splitting is similar to any standard case 8-10 loads if you're lucky.
I think the 280AI would be a fine choice, but its really not any better than anything else out there.
Who makes 180gr bullets in .284? I've been loading .284s for almost 20 years and havn't run across a 180gr bullet yet, or why you would want to use one?
I have a couple AI cartridges and another "improved" cartridge. I'll never do another, its fun to tinker but for me not worth it in the end. I've yet to experience the mythical extended case life 'factor'. Primer pocket stretch, and neck splitting is similar to any standard case 8-10 loads if you're lucky.
I think the 280AI would be a fine choice, but its really not any better than anything else out there.
blue devil
Member
I have experience in both. I have a regular .280, love it! no need for the improved. It's fast, flat shooting and can kill about any animal out there. For the .280 I think you're just spending money to get improved.
On the other hand, I also have a .257 ackley improved. Love it! the improved is hard to beat in that caliber.
On the other hand, I also have a .257 ackley improved. Love it! the improved is hard to beat in that caliber.
zfountaine55
Active member
Thanks for all the good information! I should have mentioned that the rifle I'm looking at is already an improved rifle so I would not be spending any money to have one custom made.
Badlandcat
Active member
Just started tinkering with a Cooper Model 52 in the 280 AI, so far its a very nice shoting rifle. Put a Leo CDS on top.
Berger makes a 180gr. bullet in .284. It is a fantastic long range bullet. A lot of guys are using it in their 7 mags, 7 Dakotas, 7 Mashburn, 7
WSM, etc. as well as the .280AI.
The .280 Ack can push the 180 into the mid 2800's and the 168's at or over 3000 fps. Great long range ballistics with both bullets.
No need to fire form..the Nosler custom brass is top of the line and accuracy is stellar. Probably one of the most efficient cartridges out there.
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Bambistew
Well-known member
A 180 in the 2800's??? at what pressure, barrel length, etc. Seems pretty darn high to me
gundog
New member
The only guys I know who shoot the 180 Bergers are doing so with the 7mm STW. I don't see the point of using the 180s with the AI although 180 gr, bullets may be required for elk in some areas(?). Realistically the AI falls between the 280 and the 7mm mag. If you're going to get close to 7mm mag velocities you'll need a barrel of similar length so there is no real weigh savings. I have had a few AIs come through the shop that have had feeding problems and my limited understanding is that this is not uncommon for this cartridge. If you're loading the AI hot watch for those pressure signs, Chamber demensions and throat length can make a big difference when you're using max loads.
I shoot the 168's at 2925 to 3000 depending on the powder charge, so pretty close to 7 mag velocity. 25-1/2" barrel, no pressure signs at all. I'm confident I could get 2800's out of mine with the 180. There was a guy on here using that bullet, cartridge combo. Carl maybe?? Maybe he'll chime in on his specs.
Personally I know a few guys shooting the 180 in the 7 caliber. One in a Dakota, one in a 7 WSM, one in a Mashburn, and a couple with a couple Weatherby's. A couple guys are pushing that bullet over 3100 fps. Awesome long range ballistics.
Personally I've never had or heard of anyone having feeding issues. None issue in my opinion.
The point of using a 180gr VLD Berger bullet is that it has a BC of .659 compared to a 168 VLD at .617 or a Nosler Accubond 160 gr at .531 BC. What that gives you is substantial wind drift advantage as well as more retained velocity and energy at farther distances. What that comes out to is a 180 gr. at 2800 fps will have more velocity/energy beyond 600 yds than a 168 gr shot a 3000 fps will have.
As far as you seeing a few AI's coming through your shop that had feeding problems - I suspect that may be why they were there - but then again I've seen a few 870 Rem's that have had feeding problems also, both of mine included. Never saw an AI that had any more or less feeding problems than any other standard cartridge.
There is nothing wrong with a standard 280 Rem - I shot one for 20 years before the barrel starting going south. Went into the gunsmith with the full intention of getting another 280 Rem and ended up going the AI route.
Most of the ackley rumors I have found to be heresay and not from experience. The one thing I would say is if you get an Ackley - intend to keep it because most people just want to go a standard cartridge route when they are looking for a used rifle.
thecrittergitter
Well-known member
That .280 AI that Drake4 is talking about but a substantial hammer down on his bear and my bear this year..........It is a very fine long range gun, we shot our bears at the extreme distances of about 40 yards and 30 yards.
Bambistew
Well-known member
Man, at that range a 180 would probably still in the barrel when it hit fur.
I haven't transitioned into the long range hunting thing, and probably won't. The whole BC thing is just silly talk. I could care less if a bullet has XXXX more retained energy at 800 yards than another does at 600... big deal. I've killed elk with a 243, put one in the lungs and its lights out. Wind drift, drop etc... its just a number, so one drifts less, big deal, you still have to make the adjustment once you get out there a ways. Be it 5" or 10".
A long shot for me is 400 yards. I don't frown on people who shoot farther, just isn't my cup-o-tea...
BTW, I've seen a more than few AI rifles with feeding issues, I own two of them currently. A pre64 M70 in 338-06AI and a FN 35 Brown/Whelen (shoulder moved out and same shoulder angle as AI). Both have been worked after they were 'wroked' on, and neither feed as well as a standard rifle and they never will. I don't expect them to feed like a 375H&H, but they're the roughest feeding rifles I own out of about 15. The sharp angle catches on the feed ramp or on the leading edge of the chamber, or both. No two cycles are exactly the same... I'll get 10 that feed perfect then the 11th one will hang up a bit. They'll usually still make it in the 'hole' if you hit it hard enough. A push feed would probalby fair a little better I imagine, and if I do another it will be a push feed.
AI's are cool, but thats about it. a 280AI is not a 7mag, is not a 7RUM, etc.
I haven't transitioned into the long range hunting thing, and probably won't. The whole BC thing is just silly talk. I could care less if a bullet has XXXX more retained energy at 800 yards than another does at 600... big deal. I've killed elk with a 243, put one in the lungs and its lights out.
Wind drift, drop etc... its just a number, so one drifts less, big deal, you still have to make the adjustment once you get out there a ways. Be it 5" or 10".A long shot for me is 400 yards. I don't frown on people who shoot farther, just isn't my cup-o-tea...
BTW, I've seen a more than few AI rifles with feeding issues, I own two of them currently. A pre64 M70 in 338-06AI and a FN 35 Brown/Whelen (shoulder moved out and same shoulder angle as AI). Both have been worked after they were 'wroked' on, and neither feed as well as a standard rifle and they never will. I don't expect them to feed like a 375H&H, but they're the roughest feeding rifles I own out of about 15. The sharp angle catches on the feed ramp or on the leading edge of the chamber, or both. No two cycles are exactly the same... I'll get 10 that feed perfect then the 11th one will hang up a bit. They'll usually still make it in the 'hole' if you hit it hard enough. A push feed would probalby fair a little better I imagine, and if I do another it will be a push feed.
AI's are cool, but thats about it. a 280AI is not a 7mag, is not a 7RUM, etc.
gundog
New member
My comment about using 180s pretty much follows what Bambistew is saying. I see the 280 AI best used in a light weight rifle with a barrel around 22 inches and at typical hunting ranges you don't need 180s. If you want a rifle that shoots like a 7mm Mag then get a big 7--that's my opinion.
I guess that's why everyone has an opinion.
Everyone does things a little differently and has different preferences.Me...I'd rather have dang near 7-mag performance in a fairly lightweight hunting rifle with significantly less powder, less recoil, long range capability if needed, and sub 1/2 MOA accuracy. That's why I love the 280 Ack. and the high BC bullets.
Bambistew
Well-known member
You're still not convincing me. You''r right about one thing though... everyone has their own opinion.
Significantly less powder? The AI holds about 4 grains more than the standard and about 4 grains less than the mag. Actually looking at my load data. I shoot 57gr of RL 22 in my 280s and 64 in my mag. 7 grains doesn't seem significant to me? The AI load in for the same powder split the difference according to Noslers book.
Velocity and case capacity are linear, an AI doesn't some how defy the laws of physics. Recoil is a factor of powder charge, bullet weight and rifle weight... 4-5 grains is not going to be noticeable to anyone. You could build a light weight 7mag (also see Kimber in 7WSM) if you wanted, but it seems that most people have a hard time with recoil. Seems to me it would be pretty hard to build a light weight rifle with a 25.5" barrel?
The 280 AI has cool factor and nothing more. It doesn't perform to some magic level that no other 284 can achieve.
I keep waiting for someone to bring up the extended case life... sadly no takers so far.
7 grains doesn't seem significant to me? The AI load in for the same powder split the difference according to Noslers book.
Seems to me it would be pretty hard to build a light weight rifle with a 25.5" barrel?
I keep waiting for someone to bring up the extended case life... sadly no takers so far.
I guess I do consider a 10-12% decrease in powder to be significant..it is even more than 10% in the calibers above the 7-mag. Matter of opinion again.
As far as light weight...what is lightweight to some, is not to others. I consider my rifle to be fairly light weight for a long range setup. Others don't.
The recoil is difference is noticable to me, compared to my buddies big 7's. Again..maybe not to everyone.
I'll let you know on the extended life case. 4 firings through one batch of brass, and 5 through another batch so far..still going strong. I also just started another batch of new brass so I can keep better records.
Not trying to convince anyone of anything..just stating my experience and opinion. Nothing at all wrong with a standard .280, but there is improved performance going to a
.280AI in my experience.
I agree with the post that .280 AI has a lot of cool factor. Also, research does show that of all the AI it has the most gain, along with .257. Nosler must like it as makes the ammo and brass, and chambers a custom rifle for it. I believe Gunmaker's Guild states that more custom rifles on .280AI than any other. Necessary and needed? No. Standard .280 adequate? Yes. But, very cool. To be honest, I do not have a .280AI, but do have a standard .280 and 7mmWSM, and the game I have shot does not care which one it was.
