10-11 Jan 2024 CPW Commission Meeting

[COEngineer]

I attended today, but unfortunately was distracted with my job during much of the meeting. A few notes:

• Commissioners Haskett and Philips were pretty pissed about not being notified about the wolf releases. They spent countless hours, attended dozens of meetings, got beat up from both sides over the last 3 years and didn't even get a courtesy notification. Philips said he heard about it on TV the next day. Davis (Director, CPW) apologized profusely (and genuinely, I think). A public commenter got cut off by Chair May because he pointed out that the governor's husband was one of a handful of people invited to one of the releases. I think May is confusing facts with 'personal attacks'. He cuts people off for even indirectly mentioning people, like "the new commissioners." Seems overwrought and completely unnecessary.
• A few outfitters were upset by the 'position paper' (I didn't see it on the meeting webpage, if someone could share it, I would appreciate it) which, I gather, said that CPW plans to reduce licenses in the NW corner of the state. Meeker was mentioned specifically.
• Bighorn sheep populations are down due to disease (pneumonia from domestic sheep), and other factors. Tags will be reduced from 331 to 321 (-10) this year.
• Mountain Goat tags are being reduced from 280 to 244 (-36), mostly in unit G-12 where they have been purposely reducing the numbers, but have now reached the goal.
• Luke Wiedel, RMEF volunteer, gave a good comment at 3:15:00 mark.
• https://www.youtube.com/live/BchEAcSN8gs?si=Q1WKAe3Al2G9oN4Q

I will not be able to attend tomorrow, but there seemed to be some buzz around the fact that there will de discussions of lion and bear season and license quotas(?).

 

[Holski]

Thanks for the update!

 

[TheGreek]

I believe the modifications to some elk and antelope tags in NW CO are outlined in this document.

https://cpw.state.co.us/Documents/Commission/2024/January/Item.10-W-0_Final.pdf

 

[grasshopper]

Thanks for the tip on when to listen. Just before Luke, was public comment on W-2.

So now the NW has private land OTC tags for bulls, and public land 2nd & 3rd rifle must draw. More hunt codes worth zero points just got created, where no one with a point wants to spend them on a hunt code worth zero. Based on every unit in the SW that went limited, 67% of the tags will get drawn by nonresidents. Great. I was told, a commissioner told the local office to write this issue paper, it wasn't CPW's idea. Sounds like a conflict to me.

On private land, if it ain't leased today, it will be soon. Those tags go to deep pocket hunters, likely outfitted. Public access to private lands will be lost.

The process preempts concepts offered up in BGSS, like OTC for residents, with all NR are capped or limited. By keeping private OTC, they skirted landowner vouchers by not limiting all the hunt codes, so 20% of the quota is still available for outfitted hunts. OTC for residents would have skirted vouchers too.

Public commenter says outfitters need an outfitter pool of tags. Look for that issue paper soon. Supposedly every dollar spent is multiplied by 8 according to Jenn, yet median incomes are near poverty. Trickle down stops before it hits low income residents.

I'm not sure if the elk herd was a winner today, but outfitters, private land owners and private land hunters were.

I sure hope Oak and John solve the zero point dilemma in the draw working group.

 

[COEngineer]

I was told, a commissioner told the local office to write this issue paper, it wasn't CPW's idea. Sounds like a conflict to me.

I am pretty sure Commissioners have no authority to tell CPW to do anything. They can ask questions and make rules, but they are not directors.

Zero point units will become 2 pt units in no time.

 

[TOGIE]

there is no zero point dilemma anyway. zero point tags are awesome and if residents are too dumb to enjoy them than more for me.

R's have the choice to hunt zero points units and they choose not to in favor of having points, so the NR's get the tags. simplest thing in the universe - nobody is forcing them to not get zero points tags. i have no sympathy.

 

[Oak]

I am pretty sure Commissioners have no authority to tell CPW to do anything. They can ask questions and make rules, but they are not directors.

CRS Title 33

33-1-110. Duties of the director of the division. (1) The director is the head of the division under the direction and supervision of the commission and the executive director and has general supervisory control of and authority over all activities, functions, and employees of the division.

Powers of Commission begins on page 8, duties of the Director on page 14.

 

[WildWill]

Thanks for the tip on when to listen. Just before Luke, was public comment on W-2.

So now the NW has private land OTC tags for bulls, and public land 2nd & 3rd rifle must draw. More hunt codes worth zero points just got created, where no one with a point wants to spend them on a hunt code worth zero. Based on every unit in the SW that went limited, 67% of the tags will get drawn by nonresidents. Great. I was told, a commissioner told the local office to write this issue paper, it wasn't CPW's idea. Sounds like a conflict to me.

On private land, if it ain't leased today, it will be soon. Public access to private lands will be lost.

This is already the reality of Colorado private land hunting has been for sometime.

 

[grasshopper]

Zero point units will become 2 pt units in no titime.

Prove it. Show me facts. Take a factual look at every archery unit since 2019. All still can be drawn with zero, dominated by nonresidents.

As far as my source, very credible guy, sorry not disclosing squat on the net, I respect the guy.

Commissioners direct cpw what to do all the time. That is their job.

This is already the reality of Colorado private land hunting has been for sometime.

Not in my unit, that's all Ill say on that.

 

[grasshopper]

there is no zero point dilemma anyway. zero point tags are awesome and if residents are too dumb to enjoy them than more for me.

R's have the choice to hunt zero points units and they choose not to in favor of having points, so the NR's get the tags. simplest thing in the universe - nobody is forcing them to not get zero points tags. i have no sympathy.

Really? Hunters are their own worst enemies.

Unit 77 archery has 1100 tags. Zero point unit, draws out on 2nd choice. When it was OTC 2754 people hunted it. 1100 tags in the quota now, and residents only deserve 265 of them? That is what your saying. Your own dissatisfaction with points, yet guys who have followed the rules for decades should be forced to change?

Lets not be so consumed with point system anger we deny our own in state neighbor the chance to hunt.

Would this draw be acceptable in Wyoming, Montana, New Mexico, Arizona, Utah or Nevada?

 

[grasshopper]

The zero point hunt code dilemma. It is a fact. The newly limited units will draw out at zero, nonresidents will draw most of the tags. The facts, are the facts. Our existing policy needs tweaked. Would this ever happen in any other western state? Why is it ok here?

Because many have no problem throwing our own neighbor under the bus.

 

[WildWill]

Really? Hunters are their own worst enemies.

Unit 77 archery has 1100 tags. Zero point unit, draws out on 2nd choice. When it was OTC 2754 people hunted it. 1100 tags in the quota now, and residents only deserve 265 of them? That is what your saying. Your own dissatisfaction with points, yet guys who have followed the rules for decades should be forced to change?

If only 265 residents applied then yeah that's all they deserve. Times change part of life.

 

[TOGIE]

Really? Hunters are their own worst enemies.

Unit 77 archery has 1100 tags. Zero point unit, draws out on 2nd choice. When it was OTC 2754 people hunted it. 1100 tags in the quota now, and residents only deserve 265 of them? That is what your saying. Your own dissatisfaction with points, yet guys who have followed the rules for decades should be forced to change?

Lets not be so consumed with point system anger we deny our own in state neighbor the chance to hunt.

Would this draw be acceptable in Wyoming, Montana, New Mexico, Arizona, Utah or Nevada?

how is that "residents only deserve 265 of them"? residents are simply choosing not to get the tag, which means NRs can go past the NR quota. residents are entitled to and can have more of those tags if they applied for them.

you're just mad about human behavior. residents are not being deprived of tags in that instance. they're just not.

 

[grasshopper]

CRS Title 33

33-1-110. Duties of the director of the division. (1) The director is the head of the division under the direction and supervision of the commission and the executive director and has general supervisory control of and authority over all activities, functions, and employees of the division.

Powers of Commission begins on page 8, duties of the Director on page 14.

I do not disagree those are the rules.

 

[grasshopper]

If only 265 residents applied then yeah that's all they deserve. Times change part of life.

510 residents applied. 24% of the quota went to residents.

 

[TOGIE]

the "zero point dilemma" is just outrage that resident archers don't want to hunt anything but OTC. therefore it's not a dilemma. that's the end of it.

now, should we be losing OTC? that's a different discussion. and no, I don't think residents should be losing OTC.

 

[grasshopper]

how is that "residents only deserve 265 of them"? residents are simply choosing not to get the tag, which means NRs can go past the NR quota. residents are entitled to and can have more of those tags if they applied for them.

you're just mad about human behavior. residents are not being deprived of tags in that instance. they're just not.

Im not mad at all about human behavior, if I wouldn't be pointing it out, who would?

I'm in the landowner draw. I get to cheat, but it doesn't mean I'm not a public draw advocate, that should be the level playing field. If this PLO OTC paper wouldn't have passed, the public draw would have had more tags in a limited quota. It was a loss for all public draw hunters(fact). It creates an unlevel playing field and the public draw hunter loses.

We should be on par with every western state in allocation, period. I stand by that, 1st-4th choice.


Hunters just got played, and no one can figure that out. Lord have mercy.

 

[TOGIE]

We should be on par with every western state in allocation, period. I stand by that, 1st-4th choice.


Hunters just got played, and no one can figure that out. Lord have mercy.

agree on all counts, except that no one got played when residents don't want the tag. it happens in other units that weren't previously OTC too, where NRs go above their quota because not enough R's applied. in that case if the R's are mad about it, they should go get the tag instead.

you're not wrong about the issues going limited - LPP, Private OTC remains, etc. but being mad about this zero point dilemma is like a resident blaming CPW because they forgot to apply in the first place. when it's actually their fault they don't have a tag, because they didn't apply, and somebody else got it.

R's can go get the tags if they want to, but they're not, and so the NRs snatched em. it's that simple.

 

[WildWill]

510 residents applied. 24% of the quota went to residents.

Not as their 1st choice.

 

[grasshopper]

agree on all counts, except that no one got played when residents don't want the tag. it happens in other units that weren't previously OTC too, where NRs go above their quota because not enough R's applied. in that case if the R's are mad about it, they should go get the tag instead.

you're not wrong about the issues going limited - LPP, Private OTC remains, etc. but being mad about this zero point dilemma is like a resident blaming CPW because they forgot to apply in the first place. when it's actually their fault they don't have a tag, because they didn't apply, and somebody else got it.

R's can go get the tags if they want to, but they're not, and so the NRs snatched em. it's that simple.

And then we wonder why we lose at the ballot. Voters who hunt matter. If they don't draw, they never start or quit, we all lose. Personally, I'd like to recruit resident hunters because they vote in favor of it. I guess if you can't draw tag you can always bowl or golf, but will they vote to hunt if they aren't? Lets create some more man bun subaru drivers instead of hunters, that'll solve it.