rjthehunter
Well-known member
I honestly can't believe you can see or hear any of us down here from on top of your high horse over there.
Youngest Sheep Grand Slam
- Thread starter MTLabrador
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BuzzH
Well-known member
I can't believe you can't see the difference between killing sheep and hunting them.
Maybe if you'd ever done it, I might put some merit in your posts.
Hunting sheep via a helicopter ride is infinitely easier than using a cub...fact.
Did you read the link I provided...or just look at the pictures?
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Deleted member 16014
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I’m sure you’re a good guy @rjthehunter , not a personal attack here, I just think you have a different idea about the value of certain aspects of a hunt than some of us. Plenty probably agree with you, and some are surely somewhere in between.
Like some others I have grown tired of hearing that hunters sticking together is the highest priority. In some cases we may disagree on things that are fundamental to what hunting is about.
I’m certainly not against all guided hunts, and not against kids having neat and unique experiences. However, when some of us see what looks like a big celebration of: 1)cutting the line with $$$ to get opportunities 2)emphasizing the result over the process to a tremendous extent, it doesn’t sit right. If you don’t think those two things are at least worth examining then there’s probably nothing else to talk about.
If I need to make room to consider the viewpoint that this is a good thing to celebrate, I think you should make room to consider the viewpoint that it emphasizes some problematic aspects of hunting culture.
At the end of the day we probably just disagree about what makes hunting meaningful and worthwhile. I’d much rather read about a kid who followed their dad or mom around to the deer stand year after year, learned the country, the wind, themselves and shot a basket rack WT than the OP article. But which one is getting a more clicks?
Like some others I have grown tired of hearing that hunters sticking together is the highest priority. In some cases we may disagree on things that are fundamental to what hunting is about.
I’m certainly not against all guided hunts, and not against kids having neat and unique experiences. However, when some of us see what looks like a big celebration of: 1)cutting the line with $$$ to get opportunities 2)emphasizing the result over the process to a tremendous extent, it doesn’t sit right. If you don’t think those two things are at least worth examining then there’s probably nothing else to talk about.
If I need to make room to consider the viewpoint that this is a good thing to celebrate, I think you should make room to consider the viewpoint that it emphasizes some problematic aspects of hunting culture.
At the end of the day we probably just disagree about what makes hunting meaningful and worthwhile. I’d much rather read about a kid who followed their dad or mom around to the deer stand year after year, learned the country, the wind, themselves and shot a basket rack WT than the OP article. But which one is getting a more clicks?
BuzzH
Well-known member
Great post and I wish sheep hunts were like the ones I read about when I was 12. 30-60 day hunts that required more than a ride in a cub or helicopter.
I killed a B&C dall in AK on a 3 day hunt after flying in there in a cub, but who cares? Was great, but I have a lot of regrets about that hunt. Sure, I lost 5 toe nails, did some hiking, blah, blah...but how much can you experience in 3 days?
Not the experience that I wish it would have been, and not close to the same as the 26 days it took me to kill a ram in Wyoming. Those experiences are not close to the same.
People either "get it" or they don't...
BAKPAKR
Well-known member
As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I am happy for Cami. Heck, if my dad could have afforded to have me complete a Grand Slam by the time I was 13, I would have been all over it. However, at 13, my aspirations were more like, “I want to get an elk up behind the house.” As an aside, had I actually shot an elk at 13, I would have been wearing either my Converse All-Stars or my Army surplus Mickey Mouse boots.
Also, when I was younger, what counted was getting something, not the experience. Now that I am in my golden years (based on the definition of midlife by @SnowyMountaineer), the experience and comaraderie of sharing a hunt with friends and family means more than the kill. However, it would still be pretty cool to say that I had completed Grand Slam #xxxx when I was 13!
Also, when I was younger, what counted was getting something, not the experience. Now that I am in my golden years (based on the definition of midlife by @SnowyMountaineer), the experience and comaraderie of sharing a hunt with friends and family means more than the kill. However, it would still be pretty cool to say that I had completed Grand Slam #xxxx when I was 13!
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Deleted member 16014
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Hey not all of us are going to be so spry and nimble when we’re your age pardner
. At my current rate of deterioration I am probably half way to the wheelchair.
rjthehunter
Well-known member
I agree with most of what you're saying. I hate the fact that money talks and you need to be loaded with $ to be able to sheep hunt consistently. My point is, if they love doing it, and can afford it, then who am I to discount their interest?
Money talks in terms of big game hunting whether we like it or not. It's become the norm now.
Not everyone has 30-60 days to try and fill a sheep tag. I would say rather spend the entire season hunting hard, and harvest a ram on the last day of the season instead of taking a heli up and shooting a ram in 3 days. That's not as good of an experience.
Unless you live in Alaska, the only way to sheep hunt consistently with a moderate chance of success is to go guided. I'm not going to bash a 13 year old for completing a life long dream for many. No, she didn't diy the hunts, but she's 13. They dropped the miles she walked on her dall sheep hunt. Looks like maybe 4-6 days of hunting? It's tough to tell. But it's not like she just flew up to them, shot a ram then flew out.
The bigger the struggle on any hunt, the sweeter the reward. I'm not going to disagree with that, because it is 100% true. But I'm also not going to discount someone who had opportunities like this. The right outfitter can make the hunt an adventure instead of just flying in and shooting a ram.
The point I'm making is that it's pointlessly mean to talk ill on a 13 year old. I'll bet most of you guys were still eating boogers at 13 instead of hunting sheep!
BuzzH
Well-known member
If the egocentric Dad didn't write an article and splash a video on YouTube nobody would know or care.
Like I said you either get it or you don't...
And I can assure you if sheep hunting still required 30+ day hunts instead of hitting the easy button with helicopter/cub rides, very few, if any, 13 year olds would be killing rams.
This is sheep hunting.
rjthehunter
Well-known member
Obviously less people would sheep hunt if it required a 30 day commitment. Most people can just leave life, family, and work for a month or more.
If your opinion on what a sheep hunt is the only "acceptable way to hunt sheep" then that's your opinion. But you'll be mad if I don't agree with you right? Same way no matter who I respond to you have to comment back? Just because you had a crappy experience where you flew to a sheep and shot it right away doesn't mean that's what they're all like that.
If anyone is considering going hunting, please make sure you run your plans past buzz so he can let you know if it's acceptable to him.
This sure reminds me of when @shrapnel shared his elk season success but since it wasn't the way a certain someone did it, it wasn't a "real hunt". Buzz, it's okay to be happy for someone. You don't have to complain. Sure it's not the way everyone would like to hunt, but not everyone wants to wait and maybe draw a tag in their lifetime or maybe not.
BuzzH
Well-known member
Right, people short cut the process, take all the adventure out of it, make it as easy as possible and then write articles about it as if they accomplished something.
The whole time while writing that article, not realizing if they had to do the same thing on their own, they couldn't and wouldn't even try.
What was wrong with shrapnels elk hunting is the same. He believes that everyone has access to good private land to hunt and that the elk hunting he does on private is exactly the same as public. The guy killing mature bulls on public land in general areas versus the guy swatting them in wheat stubble are not the same...not even close.
The way being flown into a spot and dropped off by a helicopter, to hunt a ram found from the air, is the same thing as hunting one for 30 days on foot. They aren't even close to the same.
Why not be honest that there is a major difference in both?
D
Deleted member 16014
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I think it's fair to question motives and what it says about hunting when it's publicized as the face of hunting. The family put it out there for promotion, what comes after that is on them, just how it works. I'm sure they got lots of praise from lots of folks as well.
It's not about talking ill of a kid, it's about questioning that this is what should be celebrated and promoted about hunting.
I think it's great that little girl got to hunt and kill those sheep. Judging someone else's success based on what you might consider to be the difference between "hunting" and "killing" Is pretty damn elitist and not a real good look. I've always hunted elk with primitive weapons. Mostly a recurve and now a long bow. I have killed one elk with a rifle. It didn't feel like "hunting" at all to me, it felt like "killing." The reason I hunt that way is because to me getting to within 20 yards of the elk before shooting is what makes it all worthwhile, what to me, makes it "hunting." But I am sure I would be considered a damned elitist bastard and wouldn't have very many friends if I put down all those lazy killers taking the easy way out and "killing" elk with rifles, all while calling it "hunting."
I don't like all the self-promoting on U-tube. I was raised with the Idea that humility was a virtue. In this day and age of social media that's a pretty old fashion notion, I guess. With all the videos out there, that really show the ugly side of how some people hunt, showing a rich kid killing a sheep doesn't seem so bad.
I don't like all the self-promoting on U-tube. I was raised with the Idea that humility was a virtue. In this day and age of social media that's a pretty old fashion notion, I guess. With all the videos out there, that really show the ugly side of how some people hunt, showing a rich kid killing a sheep doesn't seem so bad.
KB_
Well-known member
Having actually read the article. If true, it sounds like the mom and dad worked there balls off to be able to afford the finer things in life. Being a doctor takes a life long dedication to their craft and that is something to admire for sure.
Also makes it sound like that he did all that work to ensure he could afford and have special experiences with his kids. Also cant fault him for that, matter of fact, good on him for making that happen.
What is weird is he has to write a big ol article about it and try to catch some internet atta boys out of the whole thing. Not my jam but whatever floats your boat. Not my place to judge. But if does these trips with his kids to just create special memory's with them, I'm all about that.
Sadly my kids just are not that into hunting at all, they more enjoy fishing. Daughter is pretty girly but is getting into golf and art. My son is into race cars and off-roading. For me you take what your kids are into and run with it. Lucky for me i'm into all those things so away we go. If this dudes kids are into hunting then thats what he should do with them. But making it public and trying to get clicks out of it. Kinda weird.
Also makes it sound like that he did all that work to ensure he could afford and have special experiences with his kids. Also cant fault him for that, matter of fact, good on him for making that happen.
What is weird is he has to write a big ol article about it and try to catch some internet atta boys out of the whole thing. Not my jam but whatever floats your boat. Not my place to judge. But if does these trips with his kids to just create special memory's with them, I'm all about that.
Sadly my kids just are not that into hunting at all, they more enjoy fishing. Daughter is pretty girly but is getting into golf and art. My son is into race cars and off-roading. For me you take what your kids are into and run with it. Lucky for me i'm into all those things so away we go. If this dudes kids are into hunting then thats what he should do with them. But making it public and trying to get clicks out of it. Kinda weird.
Not really trying to insert myself into this debate too much, because I think I said my piece sometime in mid-2022, but.......
I'm kind of wondering what hunting trips RJ has been taken on by his parents in his day to go so hard defending this article. Tell me if I'm way off base here, RJ.
I'm kind of wondering what hunting trips RJ has been taken on by his parents in his day to go so hard defending this article. Tell me if I'm way off base here, RJ.
noharleyyet
Well-known member
Why is about a poster or his parents? Why isn't he or anyone not allowed to have an opinion? Buzz makes valid points but money has, does, and will continue to buy opportunity, celebrity, and notoriety. If you don't like the hunt or the video don't watch it or read the story.
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shrapnel
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- Aug 27, 2015
- Messages
- 2,698
Money does change the paradigm of hinting, and helicopters provide a seemingly unfair advantage. Even Randy Newberg has benefitted from helicopter access, so where do you draw the line.
Getting it or don't is really subjective. People view the outdoors by different measure. Because it isn't to your particular standard doesn't make it wrong, better or worse.
Lighten up and try and be happy for someone else's success. If you don't like the way someone else does it, you have the choice to not participate...
D
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KB_
Well-known member
I would want to make a ton of money being a dentist too. Lots of mofos dont brush their dang teeth.
BuzzH
Well-known member
Take your own advice and don't try to pass off swatting elk on private property in wheat stubble as an indicator of how good the elk hunting is in Montana.
Which is exactly what you did.
It also trivializes the many problems elk and elk hunting are experiencing on public land. Night and day difference.
There's more to it than killing for some, for others it doesn't matter as long as they "get their elk"...to hell with everyone else.
I visited an endodontist recently who was pretty loose with some waypoints. As a parting gift it sure beats the toothpaste and toothbrush my other dentists used to give me as a kid (that I apparently didn't use well enough since I had to go to the endodontist).
He just seemed into regular old MT DIY OTC hunting though. I was trying to sneak a peek behind the door like "Where you hiding the elephant tails and rhino horns, dentist man?!"
