Young Hunter Responsible for Death.

[mtmuley]

Yep, legal youth age. With the mentor program, they could have been started sooner. No one tells me how to parent. Kids in Montana can hunt when they are 12. What is the problem? mtmuley Nice analogy and cartoon though.

 

[Topgun 30-06]

TOPGUN, conclude what you want about Montana. So far we don't want the mentor program. We had a Montana FWP comment meeting last night. The originator of the "mentor" program bill was there. He left early. Guess he cares about hunter numbers, but not if there is a resource there for the "mentored" hunters. mtmuley

***If you look back at the thread I mentioned, almost all the negative comments appeared to be exactly what I stated, that cheaters would just use the kid to take deer illegally, etc. It didn't seem like there were many, if any, comments about the safety issue, which has been the common negative factor discussed in other states before their programs were started. I also am not quite following your last sentence about the guy leaving the meeting early. I just find it odd that a bunch of states have instituted a mentoring program with no problem and yet MT seems so against it. It's just perlexing and I'm not trying to force anything on you residents, but rather just trying to figure out why your state is so different. Take care and Happy New Year to ya!!!

 

[Topgun 30-06]

Yep, legal youth age. With the mentor program, they could have been started sooner. No one tells me how to parent. Kids in Montana can hunt when they are 12. What is the problem? mtmuley Nice analogy and cartoon though.

***The problem is that you are now being told when your kid can hunt by the state. The mentoring programs does exactly the opposite and allows the parent to decide when their particular kid is ready, within certain parameters of course. I can't imagine what it would have been like if I had to have waited another six or seven years to carry a gun and shoot an animal. I'm sure in my case I would have found something else to do and would have possibly given up the sport completely.

 

[mtmuley]

Maybe in your case YOU would have given up the sport. My kids didn't and won't. Montana has said no. It's pretty clear. There were a lot of extremely important issues to discuss at our meeting last night. The man proposing this mentor program apparently can't be bothered to concern himself with them. He is an outfitter afterall, so hunter numbers are more important I guess. mtmuley

 

[tjones]

Some parents didn't make good decisions in Sula this past season.

 

[Sytes]

Some parents didn't make good decisions in Sula this past season.

Agree. Unfortunately governing parents by restriction of age did not stop this event.

 

[Gerald Martin]

Some parents didn't make good decisions in Sula this past season.

Obviously then we need to increase the age of those mentored youths so that their parents can make better decisions about how and what their children shoot.

Maybe if those youths were 16 years old their parents would coach them better.

 

[tjones]

Obviously then we need to increase the age of those mentored youths so that their parents can make better decisions about how and what their children shoot.

Maybe if those youths were 16 years old their parents would coach them better.

Coaching 9 year olds surely must be easier then coaching 12 year olds.

 

[Gerald Martin]

Can't say as much about the 12 year olds Tony. I'm only experienced with my 11 and 8 year olds. I'll let you know how it is when they are mature enough to hunt in Montana.

 

[sweetnectar]

I like the write up

 

[Marshian]

Food for thought- why must the driving age be 16 years.? Or maybe 15 with mentoring. Would anyone here be comfortable with a mentored 10 year old behind the wheel on a public street? I agree with mtmuley. Some things in life happen at agreed upon intervals and I will vote to keep it that way.

 

[spook12]

Lest anyone be confused............That monkey show in Sula was NOT a Youth/Mentor hunt.

The Mentoring process is used in many parts of Society with great results.Teachers,Lawyers,Law enforcement,The Military just to name a few. A Mentor is nothing more than a person who has received the formal training to be licensed to perform a job or task that has received some ''Real Life'' experience passing some of that experience on to the Mentored. The Mentored still has the responsibility to acquire whatever formal training is required to become legal.

 

[spook12]

Food for thought- why must the driving age be 16 years.? Or maybe 15 with mentoring. Would anyone here be comfortable with a mentored 10 year old behind the wheel on a public street? I agree with mtmuley. Some things in life happen at agreed upon intervals and I will vote to keep it that way.

Driving ages were established based on facts. A long time ago there wasn't any age restrictions on driving but at some point the facts proved that young drivers were more dangerous.
Carrying your point of driving one step farther, don't most States actually have Mentoring programs in place. I know in my State a kid can pass a written test at 14 and spend the next 2 years with a qualified Mentor driving. We don't just give them a simple test at 16 that a Monkey could pass and then turn them lose on the public.

 

[Marshian]

Obviously this is a form of mentoring, but clearly ALL states impose a lower age limit ( be it 14 or 15 years). No state just assumes the parent or mentor will know what's best for a starting age, even if junior is a very precious driver. Also, if the facts for driving bore out that there was too young of a safe age, is it so crazy to assume the same concept exists with firearms, at least during public hunting (the controlled environment of a gun range is different)?

 

[spook12]

Obviously this is a form of mentoring, but clearly ALL states impose a lower age limit ( be it 14 or 15 years). No state just assumes the parent or mentor will know what's best for a starting age, even if junior is a very precious driver. Also, if the facts for driving bore out that there was too young of a safe age, is it so crazy to assume the same concept exists with firearms, at least during public hunting (the controlled environment of a gun range is different)?

Crazy? Nope it's not crazy at all to assume that. The only problem with that assumption is that the facts don't support it. There's quite a few States that have these Youth/Mentor hunts and some time back I did a little digging and none of them that I could find have had any more Safety issues during them than they have during general hunts. Also I haven't been able to find even one that has ever done away with a Mentoring program once established ,it might exist I just couldn't find it.

 

[Marshian]

Fair enough and valid points. I guess we will agree to disagree. I see no problem with making all kids hold out until a defined age.

 

[Sytes]

Food for thought- why must the driving age be 16 years.? Or maybe 15 with mentoring. Would anyone here be comfortable with a mentored 10 year old behind the wheel on a public street? I agree with mtmuley. Some things in life happen at agreed upon intervals and I will vote to keep it that way.

Considering the driving v hunting aspect...

The hunt consisting of a potential shot opportunity while under the supervision of a parent.

vs

Each and every fraction of a second of consistant drive time a youth is behind the wheel.

=

Apples and oranges... better yet apples and - meh, elephants.

edit: just saw your last post Marshian, as with the last thread there are two solid lines of thought on this topic, certainly would toast a beer to the value of agreeing to disagree. Cheers to you and others involved in this repeated debate.

 

[spook12]

I agree with you and I really don't mean to sound like a prick.

Your quote above is the real sticking point of the Issue, some say they haven't ever seen a kid under 12 that was prepared to be Mentored but Geralds opening post proves that it is possible. Not one thing in the O.P. couldn't have happened in MT. if it were legal.

 

[spook12]

If it were easy, everyone would do it.

Think outside of "us against them" and start thinking like these folks are your neighbors and suddenly, compromise isn't such an ugly word.

Agreed Ben, however to much compromise sure put you're wildlife pro's in a shitty spot trying to manage some wacky hunt didn't it?

There's a bunch of you guys up there that spend a great deal of your time and money working hard to secure a future for Wildlife,its Habitat and Hunting. I know many of the same people(including yourself) have made Access a major priority. Here's another chance to increase ''Access''. Instead of chocking the life out of it because it's being pushed down the wrong path by the wrong people take ownership of it and get it right so you don't have to live through more of that ridiculousness that happened before.

 

[MTpubliclander]

All kids that hunt in Montana already are somewhat mentored since you must be accompanied into the field by an adult till the age of 18 I believe. And I waited till 12 im still hunting and the extra wait sure didn't kill me! But at the same time I really do feel like anything to get kids outdoors is beneficial.