You saw it here in SI first! Our next President!

[cjcj]

While the man has some good qualities, he also has spanish on his website and is apparantly out of touch with the illegal immigration problem or he doesn`t even know we have one! ENGLISH ONLY! i won`t even consider any of these idiot`s who try to speak butcherd spanish in there attempt to get latino`s votes! once again ENGLISH ONLY ! it`s the language of true AMERICAN`S.

 

[MarlandS]

Funny how there's two versions of this same speech out :http://www.e-thepeople.org/article/13560/ Candidate Howard Dean, on Gun Control:
posted 12/21, by peterstern (viewed 1978 times) | Scope : National
Popularity : 8 (12 encourage, 4 discourage)
Relevance : 8

"Vermont has the lowest homicide rate in the United States. During Dean's eleven years in office the most murders in a single year has been 25, the lowest number was 5. Over half of these have been domestic assaults, the majority are not committed with a firearm.


f you say "gun control" in Vermont or Tennessee, or Colorado, people think you want to take away their hunting rifle. If you say "gun control" New York or L.A., people are happy to see Uzi's or illegal handguns taken off the streets. I think Vermont ought to be able to have a different set of laws than California. Let's keep and enforce the federal gun laws we have, close the gun show loophole using Insta-check, and then let the states decide for themselves what if any gun control laws they want. We need to get guns off the national radar screen if Democrats are ever going to win again in the South and the West, and if we can't win in the South and the West, we can't win national elections. In 2000, guns cost us at least West Virginia, Tennessee, and Montana, and with them the Presidency of the United States. Just as we resist attempts by President Bush to dictate to the states how we run our school systems and what kind of welfare programs to have, we need to resist attempts to tell states how to deal with guns beyond existing Federal law."

, http://www.issues2000.org/2004/Howard_Dean_Gun_Control.htm the Phrase added , If I thought gun control would save lives in Vermont, I would support it.

my dissection of this stance.
close the gun show loophole using Insta-check What Loophole? there is no loophole.

I think Vermont ought to be able to have a different set of laws than California.I don't remember the 9th Amendment saying anything about "except for the Second Amendment"

Let's keep and enforce the federal gun laws we have, does that mean the Constitutional ones or all of them even the ones due to sunset?

Sorry but Dean plays partisan politics fast and loose the same as all Democratic poiticians. that short 100-150 word speech was full of double entendre and politi-speak. Might as well elect Gore.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 07-27-2003 06:38: Message edited by: MarlandS ]</font>

 

[FLIPPER]

Mars...I beg to differ sir.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Sorry but Dean plays partisan politics fast and loose the same as all Democratic poiticians. that short 100-150 word speech was full of double entendre and politi-speak.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ALL POLITICIANS PLAY PARTISAN POLITICS FAST AND LOOSE

 

[MarlandS]

From the link on Dean's platform , this is the extension to the "it's time for the truth" article.

http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=7152

"By now, we all know that President Bush misled the American people on the rationale for war with Iraq. We now know that the Niger uranium claim was discredited"

He misled? Really? Dean is focussing on the sixteen words in the State of the Union speech here. Which he really needs to listen to again. Tony Blair stands behind what his Intelligence Agencies said, besides the State of the Union isn't and wasn't a platform for justifying War or anything like that it's an informational speech, not an entitlement speech like the Democrats turned it into. Who dis-creditted the intel about Niger anyway? our CIA, The one's who dropped the ball on 9/11? Did Howard Dean forget former President Clinton's speeches on the Iraqi/ nuclear situation?
Like the rest of the Democrats, Dean can forget about using the War for his gain, we had 1441 behind us and a host of other broken U.N. Resolutions. Dean is cutting his own throat here.

"Last week I asked sixteen questions about the war in Iraq that must be answered if the American people are to understand the truth around the rush to war and the failure to plan for peace. Rush to War? ho many yers and how many broken resolutions would it have taken for Dean to be satisfied?

the entire link can be torn apart easily but there's no need for that, politicians will lie cheat and steal to get into office and Dean is no different, anyone who doesn't realize that isn't hooking the links with the record.

 

[MarlandS]

Flipper, no arguement there, but the spotlight was on Dean here, check the closing staement on my second post.

 

[MarlandS]

Dean clearly does not believe in the Constitution. From http://nhpr.org/view_content/4929/

When questioned by NHPR’s Trish Anderton, Dean made it clear, when it comes to guns, he does not look for stronger laws from Washington.

Dean: “I see gun control as a state problem, not a national problem. Some states need lots of it. Let them have it. My attitude it, this is not a federal issue. Let’s enforce the laws we have. I support the assault weapons ban and the Brady Bill which stops criminals from getting hand guns. I have yet to meet a hunter who thinks criminals should have guns. But after that, why not let every state decide how much more gun control they want. If any.
What about the Second Amendment? Where in the Constitution do the States get the power to make gun laws?? They don't, they are prohibitted from it.

Anderton: What about the law suits over liability. Do you think gun makers should be able to be sued for things people do with guns?

Dean:
“I think that depends on what they do. If it’s clearly a case of dealers who are crooked and selling people guns that they ought not to sell them, I think that’s a case for the jury to decide.”
What do gundealers have to do with this question? He avoided the question, WHY?

 

[JoseCuervo]

MarS
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>saving my pennies for my own private forum <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> If I join your private forum, is it still private? I think Moosie will set you up your own section, if you just whine that you don't like us smart a$$ posters...

This is kind of an interesting topic, in that I have no idea who I will be voting for, as we are still a long way from the election. I still have lots of reading to do.

MarS and CJ, have you already made your mind up, 16 months in advance? Doesn't matter what happens with Bush, doesn't matter what you learn about the 20 Democrats running?

CJ,
Tienes que leer la informacion de todos candidatos.

 

[MarlandS]

Salmongunner, nope my mind isn't already made up. But Howard Dean ain't "all that and a bag of chips".

Matter of fact, I see little difference between the Republicans and Democrats. I'll be watching closely to see whose views are most similar to mine and that decision will be made at a couple of different times,once during the primaries and once at election time.

I need my own private forum because I'm the only person I find interesting

BUT you could get into it by answering the following question corrctly: "which tire size is best for coyotes"?

 

[FLIPPER]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>BUT you could get into it by answering the following question corrctly: "which tire size is best for coyotes"?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


HAHAHA...

....let the fun begin

 

[whitedeer]

The only good thing that came out of Vermont was...an empty Greyhound Bus......right IT?

 

[JoseCuervo]

Marland,

I have been reading up quite a bit on the 20"s. So far I have always used the 16's and 17's, but some of the articles in Car and Dog magazine have some pretty good reviews on the 20" wheel set ups.

With some of the new computer designed treads, they are starting to minimize the fur damage, which is why I always liked the 17's.

Glad to see your mind is not made up, and due to the fact you and 1-Pointer are the only intelligent people in SI, (other than me of course

), I will look to see how you sort thru the Riff, and around the Raff, to determine who gets the honor of hearing:

Madame Chairwoman, It is with great honor, that MarlandS casts his vote for _____________

 

[FLIPPER]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SalmonGunner:
Glad to see your mind is not made up, and due to the fact you and 1-Pointer are the only intelligent people in SI, (other than me of course

)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well thanks a heap...glad to know you think so much of us

 

[Ithaca 37]

whitedeer, You're wrong again, as usual.

Gov. Dean is an intelligent man who bears watching, is about all I'm saying at this point. Frankly, I won't be surprised if he ends up being the candidate. I suspect he could do a lot more about the health care issues than any other politician, and they certainly need lots of attention. He did a great job as Gov. of VT and, before I listen to any BS from the rest of you, how many of you live in states that are financially in very good shape and everyone is allowed to wear a gun?

Click here to see where your state ranks in safety: http://www.morganquitno.com/dangsaf03.htm

Where does your state rank in education?

"Vermont vs. the Nation 2000-01 School Year

Vermont ranks 1st in the nation for school administration spending per pupil
U.S. Census Bureau, Governments Division, Public Education Finances: 2001, 2003


Vermont ranks 1st in the nation for pupil teacher ratio
U.S. Department of Education, National Center for Education Statistics, Digest of Educational Statistics, 2003


Vermont ranks 2nd in the nation for public school spending compared to personal income. (Of every $1,000 of personal income, $56 is allocated to school spending (5.6%). Spending breakdown: salaries only, $24; benefits only, $7; general & school administration, $5; other, $20.)
U.S. Census Bureau, Governments Division, Public Education Finances: 2001, 2003


Vermont ranks 8th in the nation for per pupil spending
U.S. Census Bureau, Governments Division, Public Education Finances: 2001, 2003


Vermont ranks 12th in the nation for academic achievement. (Based on results of student achievement at grades 4, 8 and 12.)
American Legislative Exchange Council, Report Card on American Education, 2002


Vermont ranks 28th in the nation for average salaries of public school teachers. (88.1% of the national average salary for public school teachers.)
National Education Association, Ranking of the States 2002 and Estimates of School Statistics 2003, May 2003"

http://www.vermont.org/overview/edufacts.html

How about health?

"According to a new national report, Vermont ranks fourth among the states on the health status of women."

Here's one for you gun nuts! You could have to pay $500 to register as a NON GUN OWNER in Vermont!

"Vermonters have long stood behind their right to bear arms, boasting some of the highest rates of gun ownership and the least restrictive gun laws in the country. Currently the only state that allows its citizens to carry a concealed weapon without a permit, it may soon be the first to require a permit for the unarmed in its ranks. In what could be the most extreme interpretation of the Second Amendment's tricky syntax yet, a Vermont state legislator recently introduced a bill requiring all unarmed Vermont citizens to pay $500 for the privilege of not owning a gun."

http://www.prospect.org/print/V11/10/mareth-j.html

As you can see, we Vermonters have our heads on straight!!

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 07-27-2003 10:58: Message edited by: Ithaca 37 ]</font>

 

[Ithaca 37]

Here's a little more: "

Did you know that Vermont has a long-standing history of nurturing innovation, entrepreneurial activity and diverse economic opportunities? According to a study by the Progressive Policy Institute:

Vermont ranks 3rd in the number of patents issued to companies or individuals per 1,000 workers and 13th in private sector investment in research and development as a share of gross state product.
Vermont ranks 5th among the States in the number of jobs in high-tech industries as a share of total employment.
Vermont is 7th in the US for numbers of civilian scientists and engineers as a percentage of our workforce.
http://www.thinkvermont.com/technology/index.cfm

None of you are in states that rank as high in the national standings on as many issues as Vermont, so be real carefull about criticizing a Gov. from that state! We know how to pick our politicians!

 

[Ithaca 37]

I think this guy actually has a chance at beating Bush. Take a look at his record before you start with the wisecracks.

If you rednecks could find a Republican candidate with credentials like Dean's you'd be ecstatic!

Seriously, this man deserves a real close look.

Howard Dean, M.D.
Governor of Vermont

"This equal emphasis on creating jobs, balancing budgets and expanding government's social activism sums up Dean's approach to the office he has held longer than anyone in this century ... Dean's stunning political success - five re-election bids, none of them close - has been built on that balanced approach to government."
The Burlington (Vermont) Free Press 9/13/2001
Howard Dean called the governorship "the greatest job in Vermont" when he took the state's top post in 1991. In the decade since, Governor Howard Dean has led Vermont with a firm fiscal discipline, an unwavering commitment to children's health care and education, and a keen environmental awareness.

Governor Dean is a physician who previously shared a medical practice with his wife. (To read more about his wife Judy, click here.) He received his B.A. from Yale University in 1971 and his medical degree from Albert Einstein College of Medicine in New York City in 1978. He served in the Vermont House from 1982 to 1986; was elected lieutenant governor in 1986, and became governor in 1991 with the death of then-Governor Richard Snelling.

A common-sense moderate who firmly believes that social justice can only be accomplished through strong financial management, Governor Dean has cut the income tax twice, removed the sales tax on most clothing, and reduced the state's long-term debt. Not only did the governor pay off an inherited $70 million deficit, he worked with lawmakers to build "rainy day" reserves to help the state through any future economic downturn.

During the Dean tenure, more than 41,000 new jobs have been created, the state's minimum wage has climbed twice, incentive programs have expanded to help downtowns attract new businesses, and tax incentives were created to attract and keep new companies.

If fiscal management is Governor Dean's trademark, improving the lives of Vermont's children is his passion. A physician, Governor Dean strengthened the Dr. Dynasaur program to guarantee health coverage to virtually every child in Vermont age 18 and under. Vermont has one of the lowest uninsured rates in the country -- and highest rates of immunized children. Governor Dean has expanded programs to help seniors afford prescription drugs, and signed into law one of the toughest managed care consumer protections in the United States.

It is preservation of Vermont's precious natural resources and landscapes that the governor considers his legacy. Governor Dean worked with local communities and the federal government to preserve more than one million acres of farmland, shorefront, working forests and wilderness.

Under the Dean Administration, 76 of the state's leaking landfills were safely closed, and Vermont became a leader in the move to reduce mercury pollution and stop power plants from polluting the air. Governor Dean has created bikeways, led the effort to restore commuter rail service in Vermont, and led a strong, coordinated attack on sprawl.

Working with lawmakers, prosecutors, judges and law enforcement, Governor Dean has cracked down on violent crime in Vermont and ensured that violent felons spend time behind bars. He has fought to protect family farms, increased the number of women and minorities in judgeships and other prominent positions, cracked down on domestic violence, and put Vermont in the forefront for child support collections.


And here is where he stands on issues...

On the Issues(go to web site...)

I moved to Vermont in 1978 for internship and residency at the Medical Center of Vermont, in Burlington. In 1981, I married my medical school classmate, Judy Steinberg, and opened a medical practice, which Judy joined in 1984. I have been privileged to be a Vermonter and to serve our state as its Governor for 11 years. Vermont is a state with a strong sense of community, representing the best aspects of America. Those community values served me well as Governor. Under my leadership, we balanced our budget, guaranteed health insurance to nearly every child in our state, preserved precious natural resources, and guaranteed equal rights to every citizen. I am proud of that record. I am also deeply concerned for our future as a nation. And that is why I have chosen to run for President. This is my vision for our nation. We must provide every American access to quality, affordable health care. We must balance the federal budget. We must cooperate with the community of nations in pursuing our foreign policy objectives. We must guarantee every American equal rights under the law. And we must protect our environment to preserve a natural heritage for our children's children to enjoy. Together, we can move forward with this new vision for America. Governor Howard Dean, M.D.

Take a look at his website!

http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/PageServer?pagename=homepage

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 07-27-2003 00:57: Message edited by: Ithaca 37 ]</font>

 

[MarlandS]

Oh so you live in Vermont now?

Don't matter where you're from originally, you aren't active in their process now so you can not claim their victories.

Funny thing about politics, not too awfully many of those stats you showed were a direct result of his governorship. He just yay's or nays the bills brought forth by the legislature and then makes a speech about how hard he worked for it.
Yes, he can influence but, it does little good if the lawmakers know political suicide when they see it.

Oh yeah, I agree, he's worth watching. If for no other reason than as a lie detector.

Side note, I've learned if it looks too good to be true it probably is. He's got a couple of blemishes as far as I'm concerned, I'll wait and see if they are warts or just blackheads.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 07-27-2003 14:59: Message edited by: MarlandS ]</font>

 

[cjcj]

Hey Gunner PESA MI COOLAS!

 

[dgibson]

That's all well and good, Ithaca, but unfortunately record (real or assumed) doesn't get you the presidential nomination. It's all about who you know and who you...well, you get the point.

Given the lay of the land as it stands today, I'll be surprised to see anyone other than Lieberman take the field. But you're right, he is worth paying attention to.

Mars, please stop inundating these discussions with the facts; you know they're irrelevant.

 

[cjcj]

Ithaca in arizona, Yes we can wear a gun. And no our state is NOT financialy sound our last gov. propane Jane Hull ran it into the ground! it went from being about 400 million in the black to about 1 billion in the red! and yes she was a republican.

 

[MarlandS]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dgibson:
Mars, please stop inundating these discussions with the facts; you know they're irrelevant.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sad but true.. I guess I should have flamed or posted some idiotic GIF or just acted like a dumbass punk