You Can't Fix Stupid - $87,000,000 California Lion "Crossing"

[Deleted member 18333]

If this is how the folks in California want to spend their money, so be it. If I was running a State with all the issues States have and a finite amount of money to spend on those issues, a bridge for Mnt Lions would be fairly low on my list of priorities, regardless of its need or impact on Mnt Lions. But I am not, so have at it.

Further, if I was a donor and had to pick a project to help wildlife to give my money to, a bridge to help genetic diversity of this group of lions would not only be low on the list, it wouldn't even make the cut. Obviously others disagree.

 

[Carl 9.3x62]

Yes, cats are very predictable and easily led to man made paths.

I’d almost guarantee cats will go out of their way to not cross it.

Hopefully they post notices in the forest so the cats can read them and understand it’s for their benefit. Better include Spanish, mandarin, and German translations too so we’re “inclusive”.

Why would they ignore it?

 

[Stocker]

Why would they ignore it?

The cats? I mean I’m no expert in lions at all. Elk, deer, lopes are herd animals that usually seem to take the path of least resistance. Predators in my experience, not so much. They have their own paths and don’t like anything out of place or “odd” to them. Cats may check it out but thinking somehow cats are gonna funnel there seems a little bit out there.

 

[Beignet]

These threads always crack me up. Any experts who have the data to suggest the crossing isn’t needed, please post it up. “Because I think so” doesn’t count.

This population has been tracked via collar for almost two decades. They are exhibiting signs of inbreeding and population decline, and the data suggest connectivity is a problem. The alternative looks like a listing for the sub population, which would be far more expensive than $87 million.

World's Largest Wildlife Bridge Could Save Mountain Lions

An ambitious and popular project to connect the dangerously inbred Santa Monica mountain lions to a larger population is about to break ground

www.scientificamerican.com

https://www.cell.com/current-biology/references/S0960-9822(14)00855-0

https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/full/10.1098/rspb.2016.0957

Yes, you could spend money on habitat. But unless you address the gene flow issue, it’s a waste of money.

But migration corridors for elk/antelope/deer/bears are good. Migration corridors for mountain lions are bad. Got it.

Woah woah woah there! Your peer reviewed studies are not allowed on this thread. Either say something mean about California or move on.

 

[runningmt]

Bingo

I'm guessing the contract goes to one of Newsom's relatives.

i

I work in the highway construction industry. This isn’t that much money for an infrastructure project. Especially one in Southern California. A $111m project just went to bid in Idaho last week to replace a few vehicle overpasses, for example.

A quick Google search shows that the majority of this project was funded by private donations.

Edit: Here’s the coordinates of you want to use street view to see how many lanes any critter would have to cross on one of the busiest freeways in the country: (34.1381449, -118.7284826)

logical, we’ll thought out response, rather than a stupid conspiracy theory……thank you

 

[Hawk Tuah]

“Every time”.. I’ll wait for you to cite all the examples….

Sure.

California outlaws lion hunting with hounds.

California outlaws lion hunting altogether.

California outlaws hunting bears and bobcats with hounds.

California outlaws all bear and bobcat hunting.

This is literally the exact playbook and order used in pretty much western state the antis try.

Washington and Oregon are on step three more or less of the four I listed which are four of probably 20+ steps to end hunting. Arizona, New Mexico and Colorado have been on the brink of step one and two in the past two years alone, to name a few.

So I would argue that yes, what California does matters for other states. They are the playbook. If they can get something stupid done for wildlife and hunting in California, that plan is used elsewhere.

As much as antis would love Idaho to sink almost $100,000,000 in say, a wolf crossing over a highway, I think wildlife conservation money can be spent better.

 

[Hawk Tuah]

These threads always crack me up. Any experts who have the data to suggest the crossing isn’t needed, please post it up. “Because I think so” doesn’t count.

This population has been tracked via collar for almost two decades. They are exhibiting signs of inbreeding and population decline, and the data suggest connectivity is a problem. The alternative looks like a listing for the sub population, which would be far more expensive than $87 million.

World's Largest Wildlife Bridge Could Save Mountain Lions

An ambitious and popular project to connect the dangerously inbred Santa Monica mountain lions to a larger population is about to break ground

www.scientificamerican.com

https://www.cell.com/current-biology/references/S0960-9822(14)00855-0

https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/full/10.1098/rspb.2016.0957

Yes, you could spend money on habitat. But unless you address the gene flow issue, it’s a waste of money.

But migration corridors for elk/antelope/deer/bears are good. Migration corridors for mountain lions are bad. Got it.

You could accomplish the same thing by hiring a houndsmen with a tranquilizer to move a mature tom back and forth one or two times a year.

I honestly bet if they'd put their fundraising efforts just asking a couple of houndsmen they'd probably do it for free. Problem is, California doesn't have houndsmen anymore. Oops.

 

[Hawk Tuah]

It isn't that wildlife crossings are bad. It is the limited scope of this one that is dedicated to a species that is already overpopulated...and the price for the limited scope.

 

[hank4elk]

My aunt sent me the link as we have seen lions in her yard near Griffith Park when I was remodeling.
The lions will go to it when the deer start crossing it too. LA county lions are celebrities.
Lions are thick in CA now and deer are not any more. Worked with CAG&F and USFW trappers almost daily for 20 years.
Crossings are good,cost a buttload. And not many here knew what a wildlife treasure CA was or still is. Neither do they and a lion is rare in their eyes, and not.

NM spent a ton on deer corridors & crossings outside Albacrackie a few years back. I'm sure lions use them too.

 

[Hawk Tuah]

Okay, I’ll bite.

For someone from Idaho, you sure are spending a lot of time bashing California issues…

Yes, this state has its problems (especially around wildlife management) but the “point out how stupid California is / glad I don’t live there” shtick is incredibly old on this forum. We get it: you don’t like California, won’t ever live in California, think it’s a liberal cestpool, etc.

Bitching on here doesn’t help a damn thing. Many on this site are proudly from California and are trying to make change in a state in desperate need. Do us a favor and either pitch in to that effort or kindly throw your phone/tablet/laptop into the nearest water source next time something California comes to mind.

It is a thread on wildlife conservation topics in a forum dedicated to wildlife conservation and hunting.

Maybe not all ideas are good ones. Maybe there are places, ideas and species that $87,000,000 in conservation money could be spent.

Some people say, "oh, money spent on wildlife equals good."

Others are more discerning.

If you think this is a good idea, please stay in California.

 

[Hawk Tuah]

These threads always crack me up. Any experts who have the data to suggest the crossing isn’t needed, please post it up. “Because I think so” doesn’t count.

This population has been tracked via collar for almost two decades. They are exhibiting signs of inbreeding and population decline, and the data suggest connectivity is a problem. The alternative looks like a listing for the sub population, which would be far more expensive than $87 million.

World's Largest Wildlife Bridge Could Save Mountain Lions

An ambitious and popular project to connect the dangerously inbred Santa Monica mountain lions to a larger population is about to break ground

www.scientificamerican.com

https://www.cell.com/current-biology/references/S0960-9822(14)00855-0

https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/full/10.1098/rspb.2016.0957

Yes, you could spend money on habitat. But unless you address the gene flow issue, it’s a waste of money.

But migration corridors for elk/antelope/deer/bears are good. Migration corridors for mountain lions are bad. Got it.

Lions will cross multi-lane highways.

Unless someone is out walking around in the snow in shoes with the soles in the shape of lion tracks, I am not saying this, "because I think so."

We can agree to disagree. If you think this is the best bang for California's buck for $87,000,000 in conservation, more power to you.

 

[hank4elk]

Wildlife corridors & crossings is up on the NMG&F commision agenda this month Again.

 

[Irrelevant]

A bunch of bitchin' an moaning about city slickers caring about wildlife... wait, which part am I supposed to be upset with?

Do you think the pronghorn are the only critter that crosses the wildlife overpass at Daniel Junction? I mean weren't they already crossing there before? F-'em, waste of money for a couple measly sage rats.

So what if they call it a cougar crossing, do you think that's the only critter that benefits? F those deer too!

California freeway crossing to give wildlife room to roam

LOS ANGELES (AP) — Like many urban singles, the mountain lion P-22 lives a solitary life in a too-small habitat.

www.latimes.com

Hoping to fend off the extinction of mountain lions and other species that require room to roam, transportation officials and conservationists will build a mostly privately funded wildlife crossing over a major Southern California highway. It will give big cats, coyotes, deer, lizards, snakes and other creatures a safe route to open space and better access to food and potential mates.

I genuinely think this faux outrage at something had it been done in any other state would have been applauded is more akin to shooting a friggin' hole in the boat? Want more people to turn anti-hunting? By all means sheds the last remnants of conservation and see where that takes us.

By comparison WA is dropping $1 bil on 3 wildlife crossings for I-90 in association with a typical multi-year transportation improvement project.

Project funding – I-90 Wildlife Bridges Coalition

 

[Nick87]

A bunch of bitchin' an moaning about city slickers caring about wildlife... wait, which part am I supposed to be upset with?

Do you think the pronghorn are the only critter that crosses the wildlife overpass at Daniel Junction? I mean weren't they already crossing there before? F-'em, waste of money for a couple measly sage rats.

So what if they call it a cougar crossing, do you think that's the only critter that benefits? F those deer too!

California freeway crossing to give wildlife room to roam

LOS ANGELES (AP) — Like many urban singles, the mountain lion P-22 lives a solitary life in a too-small habitat.

www.latimes.com

Hoping to fend off the extinction of mountain lions and other species that require room to roam, transportation officials and conservationists will build a mostly privately funded wildlife crossing over a major Southern California highway. It will give big cats, coyotes, deer, lizards, snakes and other creatures a safe route to open space and better access to food and potential mates.

I genuinely think this faux outrage at something had it been done in any other state would have been applauded is more akin to shooting a friggin' hole in the boat? Want more people to turn anti-hunting? By all means sheds the last remnants of conservation and see where that takes us.

By comparison WA is dropping $1 bil on 3 wildlife crossings for I-90 in association with a typical multi-year transportation improvement project.

Project funding – I-90 Wildlife Bridges Coalition

You can hunt antelope in wyoming.

 

[Irrelevant]

You can hunt antelope in wyoming.

Why in the hell must caring about wildlife center around killing it?

 

[Nick87]

Why in the hell must caring about wildlife center around killing it?

Forget it, keep up the good fight.

 

[gouch]

Overpopulation, defined as when an organism's population exceeding the carrying capacity of its environment would indicate that cougars are not overpopulated in California. Overpopulation, defined as the cougars are killing deer and elk making it too hard for me, with my limited hunting skills to kill deer and elk each year, well, that's a different story.

At first I thought folks on hear were just anti-environmental projects but now it is clear that it is just anti-California/anti-cougar sentiments driving the discussion. We, here in Southern Oregon invented the anti-California movement back in the early 60's, maybe earlier but I was to young to notice. I too miss the days when the deer and elk populations were nearing overpopulation status making it so that even a bumbling fool like me could go out and stumble into something to shoot. Which was indeed partially do to the indiscriminate killing of natural predators. So I do understand. But Dammit, when I see millions of dollars being spent on conservation projects anywhere in the world, I just got to say "About damn time."

 

[manitou1]

These threads always crack me up. Any experts who have the data to suggest the crossing isn’t needed, please post it up. “Because I think so” doesn’t count.

This population has been tracked via collar for almost two decades. They are exhibiting signs of inbreeding and population decline, and the data suggest connectivity is a problem. The alternative looks like a listing for the sub population, which would be far more expensive than $87 million.

World's Largest Wildlife Bridge Could Save Mountain Lions

An ambitious and popular project to connect the dangerously inbred Santa Monica mountain lions to a larger population is about to break ground

www.scientificamerican.com

https://www.cell.com/current-biology/references/S0960-9822(14)00855-0

https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/full/10.1098/rspb.2016.0957

Yes, you could spend money on habitat. But unless you address the gene flow issue, it’s a waste of money.

But migration corridors for elk/antelope/deer/bears are good. Migration corridors for mountain lions are bad. Got it.

Unlike cats, Ungulates are herd animals and many herds migrate and use the same travel corridors semi-annually. In those instances, the crossing make much more sense.

 

[Cheesehead]

It is California thinking.


I can't remember a time when that state did anything that actually worked.

I mean…




(Source Bureau of Economic Analysis, World Bank)

 

[noharleyyet]

Here are the 10 states with the highest GDP:

GDP by State 2024

worldpopulationreview.com

1. California (3,120,386 million)
2. Texas (1,772,132 million)
3. New York (1,705,127 million)
4. Florida (1,111,614 million)
5. Illinois (875,671 million)
6. Pennsylvania (788,500 million)
7. Ohio (683,460 million)
8. Washington (632,013 million)
9. Georgia (627,667 million)
10. New Jersey (625,659 million)