Wyoming point creep. How bad will it be for the NR elk draw this year?

[MT Super Puncher]

There was a tag that was 100% with less than 6 points last year that went to 54% odds with less than 9 points. Love that

Edit: and they didn’t drop tag numbers significantly in the unit

pretty sure that's the unit I applied for.

 

[elkduds]

I think the answer for any resident any any state is over my dead body unfortunately.

I can't even really pick on my fellow westerners too much, MA had a $5 increase on our $10 deer tag and all the MA facebook groups were livid. The horror 4 deer tags, 3 turkey, and a bear for $65 instead of $45

The CO residents I hear from are all on board w a significant license fee increase for residents. Of course, these are hunters and anglers who want more influence w CPW than NRs have and see that $ matters in that equation. Agree that generally residents are opposed to fee increases until they see a valid reason for the increase.

 

[BuzzH]

I meant more, of course you'd pay more if you got a smoke'n tag who wouldn't... but would you pay for the gen tag every year.

I think the answer for any resident any any state is over my dead body unfortunately.

I can't even really pick on my fellow westerners too much, MA had a $5 increase on our $10 deer tag and all the MA facebook groups were livid. The horror 4 deer tags, 3 turkey, and a bear for $65 instead of $45

Yes, I would pay a lot more for a general tag, more for a cow/calf tag, more for a pronghorn, more for a deer, more for a general deer.

Who wouldn't? NR's are paying $1200 for a special general elk tag here...and I'll be the first to say, its worth it.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Yes, I would pay a lot more for a general tag, more for a cow/calf tag, more for a pronghorn, more for a deer, more for a general deer.

Who wouldn't? NR's are paying $1200 for a special general elk tag here...and I'll be the first to say, its worth it.

Well darn it Buzz now I really want one next year.

 

[BuzzH]

Well darn it Buzz now I really want one next year.

There's lots of years here I have 2 full price elk tags, I don't mind paying more for 100% draw odds for my second and third elk tags.

Also, if WY would let me enter both R and NR draws (paying NR prices) I would do it in a heartbeat, even with the chit odds for random NR tag.

 

[Deleted member 18333]

There's lots of years here I have 2 full price elk tags, I don't mind paying more for 100% draw odds for my second and third elk tags.

Also, if WY would let me enter both R and NR draws (paying NR prices) I would do it in a heartbeat, even with the chit odds for random NR tag.

We need to press the G&F to allow res hunters to get two or three Gen tags each year to help thin out all those Gen units with B:C ratios that are too high.

 

[bayoublaster7527]

The CO residents I hear from are all on board w a significant license fee increase for residents. Of course, these are hunters and anglers who want more influence w CPW than NRs have and see that $ matters in that equation. Agree that generally residents are opposed to fee increases until they see a valid reason for the increase.

Agreed. Hell, I would just be happy if hunters and anglers (R and NR) had influence with the CPW commission at all, rather than the preferred stakeholders like Defenders of Wildlife, WildEarth Guardians, Center for Biological Diversity, etc.

 

[Dsnow9]

Agreed. Hell, I would just be happy if hunters and anglers (R and NR) had influence with the CPW commission at all, rather than the preferred stakeholders like Defenders of Wildlife, WildEarth Guardians, Center for Biological Diversity, etc.

As hunters we didn’t fill the DEI requirements and therefore do not qualify to have a say.

 

[Archer86]

Yes, 2024 maybe for sure 2025...we're in discussions with GF right now on how to implement. Matter of fact just got off the phone with the GF about it.

So from the sounds of it this is going to go through even with alot of resident that are against it?

 

[BuzzH]

So from the sounds of it this is going to go through even with alot of resident that are against it?

What I'm hearing is the cap is going to be removed, going to 3 regions. Assuming that happens...

What I'm going to do is recommend NR caps on General tags for NR for the South and West Regions. Had a call last night with a couple other guys and we're going to start working the Department and the Commission on getting that done.

 

[kwyeewyk]

What I'm hearing is the cap is going to be removed, going to 3 regions. Assuming that happens...

What I'm going to do is recommend NR caps on General tags for NR for the South and West Regions. Had a call last night with a couple other guys and we're going to start working the Department and the Commission on getting that done.

Can you elaborate a little on this, if cap goes away, NR general goes to 3 regions, I assume NR general quotas would be set based on herd management objectives within each region? And NR LE quotas would presumably be changed to 10%. So the NR LE total quota would no longer be any factor in NR general quota?

 

[BuzzH]

Can you elaborate a little on this, if cap goes away, NR general goes to 3 regions, I assume NR general quotas would be set based on herd management objectives within each region? And NR LE quotas would presumably be changed to 10%. So the NR LE total quota would no longer be any factor in NR general quota?

We're going to recommend a cap on NR general elk tags.

Residents want quality general bull elk hunting, not more NR pressure.

If elk are over objective in general areas the department can issue type 4, 6 or 7 cow tags. I don't want any more NR pressure on bulls in general units.
If bull to cow ratios fall below recreation management NR region quotas will be reduced. You don't reduce over objective elk by killing bulls, you do that killing cows.

The department wants flexibility in LQ areas, outfitters want to stabilize the general NR tags at current levels, and the residents don't want more NR general tags issued to kill bulls.

 

[Kiwi]

From my reading of this years NR Gen elk tag draw odds there was a .5 point creep from last year. It look 4 points last year to guarantee a tag in the random part of the draw and this year it was 4.5 points. I’m amazed that with all the media attention and WY elk regulation changes (regions and price increase) that the creep was so low. I guess it shows how most people don’t really have an application plan and just buy points or apply when they can?

 

[kwyeewyk]

We're going to recommend a cap on NR general elk tags.

Residents want quality general bull elk hunting, not more NR pressure.

If elk are over objective in general areas the department can issue type 4, 6 or 7 cow tags. I don't want any more NR pressure on bulls in general units.
If bull to cow ratios fall below recreation management NR region quotas will be reduced. You don't reduce over objective elk by killing bulls, you do that killing cows.

The department wants flexibility in LQ areas, outfitters want to stabilize the general NR tags at current levels, and the residents don't want more NR general tags issued to kill bulls.

Thanks that makes sense, so you're basically saying you're going to recommend the 3 region quota total be very similar to the recent average of NR general quotas, and LQ quotas will have nothing to do with that number anymore other than having been used as the balance of the 7250 cap previously come up with the average that you recommend be carried forward?

So presumably NR general tags will stay at similar levels, but if LQ goes 90/10 there will be a net loss of NR tags overall, or is it safe to assume outfitters wouldn't let that happen? Seems like lifting the cap opens the door for outfitters to get more NR tags rather than give them up.

If LQ numbers drop significantly, can only imagine the point creep for general would be tremendous as high point holders give up on their hopes of an LQ and dump points.

 

[RunNGunSC]

Sounds like a war on NR but the blame seems misplaced. NR are capped and that cap hasn’t increased. Seems to just be greed at this point. I don’t hear any complaints about residents not being able to get elk tags, a deer tag or two, and some pronghorn tags.

 

[Kiwi]

I haven't run the numbers, but given how many are in the 10+ point elk layers and how few tags there are for some of the high demand units, it will be interesting to see if that only requires a couple years of waiting or ten+ years of waiting.

I’d say your prediction for this years draw (earlier in this thread) was correct. Keen to hear what the numbers tell you for next years LQ draw. I’m thinking of applying in the special for a LQ elk tag.

 

[BuzzH]

Thanks that makes sense, so you're basically saying you're going to recommend the 3 region quota total be very similar to the recent average of NR general quotas, and LQ quotas will have nothing to do with that number anymore other than having been used as the balance of the 7250 cap previously come up with the average that you recommend be carried forward?

So presumably NR general tags will stay at similar levels, but if LQ goes 90/10 there will be a net loss of NR tags overall, or is it safe to assume outfitters wouldn't let that happen? Seems like lifting the cap opens the door for outfitters to get more NR tags rather than give them up.

If LQ numbers drop significantly, can only imagine the point creep for general would be tremendous as high point holders give up on their hopes of an LQ and dump points.

Cap NR general at 4325 for all 3 combined regions. Keep 84-16 for LQ elk, for now, unless the outfitters jack around with wanting more nr general tags, then we will push for 90-10 for LQ elk. I mean one more general tag than the cap, it's game on...and I don't play for second place.

The flexibility we're given the GF is that LQ elk tags won't count against the 7250 cap. They want to issue more type 4's in areas with high demand for cows and in areas over objective.

Residents would be assured continued good hunting in general areas and NR general tag hunting will stay at the 5 year average rather than continuing to decrease as more LQ tags are issued.

I think it could work, but if the outfitters misstep, one time...it's over. Residents want to maintain quality hunting.

Like I told one of the GF wildlife managers we're working with..."if I wanted shitty general elk hunting, I would move back to Montana."

 

[perma]

Like I told one of the GF wildlife managers we're working with..."if I wanted shitty general elk hunting, I would move back to Montana."

Or Colorado. Good lessons to be learned from both of those states.

 

[Hunt West]

Cap NR general at 4325 for all 3 combined regions. Keep 84-16 for LQ elk, for now, unless the outfitters jack around with wanting more nr general tags, then we will push for 90-10 for LQ elk. I mean one more general tag than the cap, it's game on...and I don't play for second place.

The flexibility we're given the GF is that LQ elk tags won't count against the 7250 cap. They want to issue more type 4's in areas with high demand for cows and in areas over objective.

Residents would be assured continued good hunting in general areas and NR general tag hunting will stay at the 5 year average rather than continuing to decrease as more LQ tags are issued.

I think it could work, but if the outfitters misstep, one time...it's over. Residents want to maintain quality hunting.

Like I told one of the GF wildlife managers we're working with..."if I wanted shitty general elk hunting, I would move back to Montana."

I haven’t heard, but any discussion on why did they scrapped the original regions and reduced it down to three? Seems the original proposal would have given G&F more flexibility at managing NR hunters.

 

[BuzzH]

I haven’t heard, but any discussion on why did they scrapped the original regions and reduced it down to three? Seems the original proposal would have given G&F more flexibility at managing NR hunters.

Outfitters cried.