Wyoming joins the elk wars

[thomas89]

How about a bill to increase the value of the landowners kill tag voucher. (Not sure of what those tag stubs are called). I think right now it’s 16 or so bucks, please correct me if wrong.

Put it on a sliding scale for a year and see what results come out of it.

25 per tag for the first 5 any elk
50 per tag for next 5 any elk
100 per tag for 11-20 cows only
200 per tag for any quantity of cows killed over 21

Donate the cow hunts thru a NP also get a tax write off 5x the value of tag stub.

Still think this is peanuts compared to some of the lease deals the outfitters are able to make with these landowners.

I think it’s honestly like the wild pig situation all over the south, if they eradicate them (greatly reduce numbers to eliminate damage) they’ve shot themselves in the foot for a guaranteed, easy, hands-off revenue stream. I personally don’t think landowners are that keen to solve the problem or you’d have advertisements posted up all over for these areas with surplus elk tags every year.

 

[more_cowbell]

There are mitigation solutions for that.

Mending Fences - Wildlife Friendly Fencing

The herd spooked. Bulls, cows and yearlings ran full tilt across the field toward a range fence—one built for cattle and strung with five strands [...]

rmef.org

Definitely, and you can't have the top wire too high, but need to leave the bottom wire "loose" enough for the elk calves to get through. Funny that some fences are to keep other people's cattle out, but then elk hit the fence and if not fixed quick enough, those cattle get in, browse down the feed, then elk don't return for a while. Of course now there aren't many elk in a lot of areas here, which is why all these other states with a surplus issue need to send them to NE Oregon. The wolves won't feed themselves.

 

[Buffs35]

 

[JEL]

View attachment 280839

Not all ranchers are rich out of staters just buying a tax write off. There are actual working ranches that need to watch their bottom line and make a profit. The value of your land doesn't mean much if you have no intention of selling it. The distain for private land owners is pretty evident on this board. No wonder they don't want to open their land to the masses.

 

[Buffs35]

Not all ranchers are rich out of staters just buying a tax write off. There are actual working ranches that need to watch their bottom line and make a profit. The value of your land doesn't mean much if you have no intention of selling it. The distain for private land owners is pretty evident on this board. No wonder they don't want to open their land to the masses.

I own land in ft. Morgan that I run cattle on. I'm also a real estate attorney, so I'm very pro land owner, but carry on.

 

[JEL]

I own land in ft. Morgan that I run cattle on. I'm also a real estate attorney, so I'm very pro land owner, but carry on.

glad to hear it. All I am saying is it isn’t just a matter of building a fence. I built 4 miles on our place last summer. It was a financial hit to our small operation. Also for what it’s worth anyone that wants to hunt can just ask and walk on in.

 

[Mountain Mule]

glad to hear it. All I am saying is it isn’t just a matter of building a fence. I built 4 miles on our place last summer. It was a financial hit to our small operation. Also for what it’s worth anyone that wants to hunt can just ask and walk on in.

So when do I show up to hunt?

 

[JEL]

So when do I show up to hunt?

Come on out. I hear they are considering a CWD deer hunt for our country. We mostly have deer and antelope but you are welcome.

 

[brockel]

glad to hear it. All I am saying is it isn’t just a matter of building a fence. I built 4 miles on our place last summer. It was a financial hit to our small operation. Also for what it’s worth anyone that wants to hunt can just ask and walk on in.

Crazy the cost of fencing supplies anymore isn’t it.

 

[JEL]

Crazy the cost of fencing supplies anymore isn’t it.

It is. I pounded every post and put in every staple. Was quite a bit more than I expected. Also we are just trying to keep cows in. Not elk out.

 

[Dinkshooter]

Dear severely overburdened elk hating landowner,

I am willing to trade you my small city lot for your troublesome property so you never have these worries about all the awful wildlife in the future. I do have too many squirrels, the occasional raccoon and skunk and also a moose for a day or so in the winter

Honestly that article is unbelievably terrible. That said hunters will continue to vote against there own beat wildlife interests

Wish I could like that 10x, the tears I have for these landowners are streaming down my face as I type.

 

[Dinkshooter]

I can hardly imagine the nightmare of owning some giant property with all those big stinky, loud animals always trying to live on it. Man the horrors.

 

[TN_Rifle_Junkie]

As a NR hunter, I agree with the residents; "If you want to reduce the herd size on your ranch, allow hunters to hunt them until they leave."

I also see the Landowner idea and potential approach, Bob the neighboring rancher gets $10-15k per bull hunt. But the elk have to be there to hunt. So after the season changes to "any elk" and "antlerless elk", change the rules, and allow access to more hunters.

Seems so simple, but I get that there are concerns over the potential bad actor.

 

[WYexile]

It is mostly private land.
We work for a rancher in this region and hunt it.
The huge herds are impressive to say the least.
The problem started by a few ranchers wanting trophy caliber bulls in this area so they gave sanctuary to herds later in season.
This was about 35 years ago we first heard of these sanctuary ranches but they had been doing this for years before.

Yes , once they herd up it is hard to get on them and take several out a the group but it can be done.
I would also venture if I called and asked about access I would be told no even though we have 30+ year experience hunting this area and work for a rancher in it. Some LOs just don't trust anyone but those they know very well or family.
The guy we work for says no to hunters unless they are friends of ours and we hunt with them. Their biggest concern is liability and not wanting folks just wondering around. However elk are scarce by mid Oct these days- headed to those sanctuary ranches by then.
WG&F GWs and biologists know who we are and who we work for but we never got a call to go shoot any elk last Feb. could have been there in minutes and we know the area.

They need to do something but access is the issue and will not go away unless they pay big to LOs I think. They tried G&F "guided" hunts a few years back and they went so so I think. G&F folks were out on the ranches with hunters.

This is also a very open country area in most of it but it is rough . Plenty of cover and terrain for stalking up on herds.
This is a pretty common herds size in this area, we took 2 elk out of it. This was 2011 so herds have increased now even. Pic shows about half the herd.

View attachment 280656

Spot on assessment. The few places in the area that are trying to make a living from their property allow about as much access as can be tolerated; especially given the super long seasons (Aug-Jan). Keeps the elk off their place half the year, but doesn’t reduce the population much, as those big mobs of elk know exactly where they’re safe - eating the grass on the guys land who doesn’t need the grass.

Then they get hammered by those elk in the growing season, markedly reducing the carrying capacity for their operation.

It does mean they’ve got hunters all over their place half the year - leaving gates open, messing up roads, dumping trash, and much worse. Be about like living on a golf course, where the golfers are armed.

 

[BuzzH]

Spot on assessment. The few places in the area that are trying to make a living from their property allow about as much access as can be tolerated; especially given the super long seasons (Aug-Jan). Keeps the elk off their place half the year, but doesn’t reduce the population much, as those big mobs of elk know exactly where they’re safe - eating the grass on the guys land who doesn’t need the grass.

Then they get hammered by those elk in the growing season, markedly reducing the carrying capacity for their operation.

It does mean they’ve got hunters all over their place half the year - leaving gates open, messing up roads, dumping trash, and much worse. Be about like living on a golf course, where the golfers are armed.

What a load of crap. I hunt a lot of HMA's and I don't recall ever seeing a gate left open, trash left by hunters, or roads being torn up.

Yet, it's brought up all the time. It's a worn out excuse to deny access.

 

[WYexile]

What a load of crap. I hunt a lot of HMA's and I don't recall ever seeing a gate left open, trash left by hunters, or roads being torn up.

Yet, it's brought up all the time. It's a worn out excuse to deny access.

What a load of crap. I hunt a lot of HMA's and I don't recall ever seeing a gate left open, trash left by hunters, or roads being torn up.

Yet, it's brought up all the time. It's a worn out excuse to deny access.

Hard to empathize if you haven’t lived it. The gates on your HMA’s aren’t yours, the livelihood they contain aren’t yours, the roads not your responsibility.

If it’s private land, it would be useful to think of it as “granting” access for responsible hunters, but not “denying” access after a series of costly or destructive experiences.

 

[WYexile]

If it’s private land, it would be useful to think of it as “granting” access for responsible hunters, but not “denying” access after a series of costly or destructive experiences.

But if you haven’t lived it; if it’s not your gate containing your livelihood; if it’s not your road to maintain; it would be easy to not notice. And easy to not empathize.

 

[BuzzH]

But if you haven’t lived it; if it’s not your gate containing your livelihood; if it’s not your road to maintain; it would be easy to not notice. And easy to not empathize.

Bullchit, speak for yourself. I'm not some mindless drone that doesn't pay attention to what's going on around me.

I'm also extremely sensitive to landowner concerns when they allow access. I would also be the first person to notice and "remind" unethical hunters if I witnessed it.

I just don't see the things that seem to come up in any discussion about access. I don't see gates left open, cows shot, roads torn up, and all the other nonsense that comes up.

IMO/E it's the same old excuse when the reality is, those landowners doing the complaining just don't want anyone on their property.

Just be honest about it and stop with the slob hunter excuses...so lame.

 

[thomas89]

Bullchit, speak for yourself. I'm not some mindless drone that doesn't pay attention to what's going on around me.

I'm also extremely sensitive to landowner concerns when they allow access. I would also be the first person to notice and "remind" unethical hunters if I witnessed it.

I just don't see the things that seem to come up in any discussion about access. I don't see gates left open, cows shot, roads torn up, and all the other nonsense that comes up.

IMO/E it's the same old excuse when the reality is, those landowners doing the complaining just don't want anyone on their property.

Just be honest about it and stop with the slob hunter excuses...so lame.

Agree, I feel the WGFD does a really good job monitoring/authorizing access to certain parcels of HMA/WIA that I’ve ever hunted on.

Can’t say I’ve ever personally seen land torn up/abused by hunters on any of these parcels. That’s not say it doesn’t happen, but the extent of which certainly doesn’t seem worthy to revoke all access to everyone.

 

[WYexile]

Dang I like to hunt, I like hunters, I like to talk about hunting, only reason I’m here. Appreciate your points, but the approach makes me want to share:

When my daughter was a teenager, I told her to wait until she was in a better mood to engage folks when she thought they were wrong, or was unable to appreciate a view counter to her own; but most especially when she felt she needed to be “right” or “heard.”

she thanked me for that advice later; and said the only time she didn’t follow it was in person, when it mattered. ( Not behind a keyboard when it didn’t ). Has served her well.

Pretty new to forums, hope you’re in a better mood next time we cross paths. If not, I won’t pause again