Wyoming > Hicks at it again

[SticksMcKinley]

I sent this message below to Gov. Gordon as a non-resident hunter. While the bill's sponsors may not care about the number of state and local dollars that stand to be lost in this insult to non-resident hunters, I believe that aside from outfitters, there are plenty of Wyoming business owners that do. There's a whole lot more to the Wyoming tourism economy and non-resident taxpayer base than outfitter dollars.

"Gov. Gordon - My family and I have traveled from out of state to hunt in Wyoming. I estimate that we spend about $4,000 per trip, much of that going to your state and local economies. Senate Bill 94 is nothing but a slap in the face to non-residents like me who travel to your great state and spend money on license fees, state and local fuel, sales and lodging taxes in addition to bolstering local economies with retail and other tourism dollars. Is Senate Bill 94 how Wyoming would show its gratitude to non-resident hunters? I surely hope not and ask that you oppose its legislative progress. Thank you."

 

[SticksMcKinley]

Here's the contact link if you care to do the same:

Wyoming Governor Mark Gordon

Welcome to the website for Wyoming Governor Mark Gordon, an official State of Wyoming website.

governor.wyo.gov

 

[Jape]

Here's the contact link if you care to do the same:

Wyoming Governor Mark Gordon

Welcome to the website for Wyoming Governor Mark Gordon, an official State of Wyoming website.

governor.wyo.gov

Thanks for providing that. As someone who has been both a resident and non-resident of Wyoming I think this is very poorly written legislation. Ultimately, it does not appear to benefit wildlife or habitat anymore than at current levels and is mostly a greed power move. I have always admired Wyoming's system and the thought/effort they put into their wildlife management. This seems to be an unnecessary move to fix something that is not broken.

 

[npaden]

I'm surprised no one is complaining about the "if there are less than 10 tags for a unit, zero go to the NR side". That is going to knock out a lot of the units with smaller quotas (sheep, goat, moose) and effectively drive the resident % even higher than the 90%.

The rounding can really get you when you are dealing with small quotas. Doing a very quick glance at it, Bighorn Sheep tags would go from 43 Nonresident tags in 2019 if I counted it right to 9 or 10 for 2021 depending on the final quota numbers. Those $150 a pop points are going to be worth about 15 cents when that happens. (The odds for people just a few points under the max are already pretty much impossible in the preference point round, if you go from 40ish drawn each year to 10, it will take centuries to churn through the guys ahead of you if you are under 10 points). Of course with the pressures being put on wild sheep through domestic grazing allotments right now the quotas may be going down instead of up.

Moose is a little better as there are several units with pretty decent quotas, Mountain goats will only have 1 unit available to nonresidents, I think the way the quotas would be set the nonresident tags available would go from 10 to 1 if you exclude the unlimited type units they added last year for the Teton area.

 

[406dn]

I think hanging your hat on the economic benefit non resident hunters offer a state is a mixed bag, at best.

More than a few residents who vote, show up at meetings, pay local taxes, want a chance to hunt for a bighorn, mountain goat, moose, etc ,would in their ideal world, totally exclude non resident hunters. That is not a fair view, but it is held by a portion of resident hunters in every state that draws significant interest from non residents.

Figuring out how to fairly divide a pie that is insufficient to meet the demand is difficult. Since residents vote and no residents don't,, it isn't likely that non residents will get a very large slice.

Montana has long had a 90/10 split on licenses that require a drawing. I don't ever recall hearing from a resident hunter that it should be changed to offer more tags to non residents.

 

[npaden]

I just checked, there are 3,970 people sitting with 11+ points for sheep in Wyoming. So if the quotas go to 10 per year that will take 397 years to churn through them to get to the guy sitting with 10 points right now. Wyoming currently makes the purchase of a point mandatory for sheep at $150. Something seems broken with that. (Even at 40ish tags we are talking 100 years so it is still broken even without this change).

 

[npaden]

Back to mountain goats. Right now the split is 75/25. Very generous, probably too generous, but that is what is is. In 2019 there were 30 tags that went to residents and 10 that went to nonresidents.

With the way wording of the "less than 10 quota in a unit, none go to nonresidents" that split would end up with 39 tags going to residents and 1 tag going to nonresidents. Thats 97.5% of the tags, not 90%. That seems a little excessive.

 

[huntabsarokee]

I know I'm alone here but I really hate the rich guy argument or it will price me out rhetoric. Many of my friends that are always complaining what a tag costs or what the hunt expenses are gonna be are the ones that own $2500 of Sitka or Kuiu clothing. Heck I have a friend he's gonna see this, he got a closet hanging full of sitka & Kuiu and first lite jackets hell he hasn't even wore yet! I am totally serious. You will spend you money on whats important to you and thank god you can in this free country we live in.
Its your choice. If your not hunting or fishing in your back yard it becomes expensive and everyone has a different budget or idea what they wanna spend their money on. Just go Tuna fishing OYO with friends and put $1000 to $1500 of fuel in the boat for a overnighter run 120 miles offshore in the dark and holy crap there are 500 boats in a few square miles! Things are not what they used to be so we just gotta make the best of what we got. To many dam people

Thats not true I don't have any First Lite jackets.

 

[gburk]

For elk: how does the proposed change to 23-1-703(e) "at least ninety percent (90%) of big game animal, bison and grizzly bear licenses to be issued in any one (1) year for resident hunters" not contradict the 7250 total elk tags promised to NRs elsewhere in statute? (Actually I looked on wyoleg.gov but couldn't find the 7250 clause, happy to get a pointer to that too)

Do Wyoming hunters feel that Rob Shaul accurately represents their interests? probably a whole separate thread there

 

[npaden]

For elk: how does the proposed change to 23-1-703(e) "at least ninety percent (90%) of big game animal, bison and grizzly bear licenses to be issued in any one (1) year for resident hunters" not contradict the 7250 total elk tags promised to NRs elsewhere in statute? (Actually I looked on wyoleg.gov but couldn't find the 7250 clause, happy to get a pointer to that too)

I think the word "issued" is a whole nuther can of worms. Not allocated to, but "issued". That would seem to mean that the leftover antelope licenses would not be available for nonresidents to purchase if it got the number of licenses issued to fall below 90%.

 

[mariano742]

is it generally the feeling in Wyoming that this bill will not pass? this bill would wreck three DIY hunts over the next 3-4 years just for me.

 

[88man]

Thats not true I don't have any First Lite jackets.

Is the $2500 low or high??

 

[Deleted member 18333]

I agree completely that the rising cost is shifting the hunting demographic to the right of the curve. But, additionally, this bill cuts nr tags in half, from 20 to 10% of the quota. That results in less nr hunters visiting wyo; buying fuel, food, logging, beer, propane, etc.

As a resident, I buy all of those things when I hunt in Wyoming.

For elk: how does the proposed change to 23-1-703(e) "at least ninety percent (90%) of big game animal, bison and grizzly bear licenses to be issued in any one (1) year for resident hunters" not contradict the 7250 total elk tags promised to NRs elsewhere in statute? (Actually I looked on wyoleg.gov but couldn't find the 7250 clause, happy to get a pointer to that too)

Do Wyoming hunters feel that Rob Shaul accurately represents their interests? probably a whole separate thread there

The 7250 is just used to figure out how many NR gen tags to issue. Take Full price NR elk tags issued, whether 16% or 10% doesn't matter. Subtract that number from 7250 and you have how many gen tags are issued. Currently NR's get around 13,000 total elk tags once LQ tags, gen tags, red price cow tags and leftovers are factored in.

I am not sure if Rob Shaul speaks for the majority of Wyo residents. I suspect that he does. After attending the last set of Comm meetings regarding NR elk tag distribution I would say his view is shared by about 90% of the res hunters in attendance. That being said I dont think most of that 90% have given it much thought other than it takes them too long to draw a Little Mnt elk tag.

 

[SticksMcKinley]

As a resident, I buy all of those things when I hunt in Wyoming.

Just as NRs do in their own home states, but this does not factor into tourism/visitor funding in the any state's economy. Non-resident hunting dollars add up very quickly in Wyoming (hundreds of millions) as they do in any state with large and accessible big game populations, e.g. Colorado.

 

[Fremont15]

I like the idea of the 90/10 allocation, but the outfitter allotment is ridiculous.

 

[Trial153]

I'm surprised no one is complaining about the "if there are less than 10 tags for a unit, zero go to the NR side". That is going to knock out a lot of the units with smaller quotas (sheep, goat, moose) and effectively drive the resident % even higher than the 90%.

plenty of NR are worried and complaining especially higher point holders. It will force them to make some unpleasant considerations and possible changes.

When I left 13 moose and sheep point on the table in WY when they raised point fee went to 150 I did so knowing i needed to make that decision had to be based on the here and now. It was obvious that it was the right decision based on the cost versus expectation. however I knew full well that’s changes in tag allocations or the system may either validate my prior choice or prove it wrong. historically I haven’t seen tag numbers appreciate anywhere near the rate of Hunter participation. I also seen a push from many in a Hunting community to continue to monetize these tags. I think there no small portion of sportsman in prominent organizations that feel like all these tags should garner what the market can bear. Many are resentful of the amount of tags that still in public draw systems. The rabbit hole we have created with governors auction tags and governors tags was mistake we won’t soon come back from.
All these thought lead me to conclude that I was throwing Good money after bad in WY for moose and sheep.

 

[88man]

Isn't Hicks the Senator who wanted to remove Bighorn sheep from the Snowy Range???

 

[406dn]

The rabbit hole we have created with governors auction tags and governors tags was mistake we won’t soon come back from.

Amen.

 

[Oak]

Isn't Hicks the Senator who wanted to remove Bighorn sheep from the Snowy Range???

Sort of. The bill said that if federal agencies plan to reduce domestic sheep grazing because of potential impacts to bighorn sheep, then Wyoming will remove the bighorn sheep. I believe it passed, but not certain.

 

[JM77]

I think the word "issued" is a whole nuther can of worms. Not allocated to, but "issued". That would seem to mean that the leftover antelope licenses would not be available for nonresidents to purchase if it got the number of licenses issued to fall below 90%.

I don't agree here. You need to look at the words "initial drawing" in regulation.