Caribou Gear Tarp

Wyoming Game and Fish Commission Approves Chronic Wasting Disease Management Plan

You might be able to effectively implement a plan to kill older buck on a unit that is mostly public land but on a unit that has a good percentage of private the landowners are not going to give the access you would need to get the job done. Those older bucks are just too valuable. I guess you could bring in the helicopters. Sure that would be popular.
Is there solid science to back up the need to shoot older bucks or is it just a theory that older bucks travel more during the rut and there for spread CWD?

This is exactly some of the reasons I think the plan is going to be incredibly difficult, you need landowner buy-in in areas with lots of private land. Not having that, then the GF will have to look at the areas with good access and controlled harvest. That means increasing harvest rates in some of the better LQ areas...that should be real popular with Wyoming Sportsmen.

Nothing will raise opposition more than hammering on the mule deer you've been trying to protect via LQ management for 10+ years to see if you're theories work on controlling CWD.

What we're talking about doing could impact deer herds as much or more than CWD itself and unfortunately we wont know until long term management of CWD is given a chance. I'm willing to sacrifice a select few areas where we can give different management a try, but I'm not going to ever be in favor of sweeping population reductions unless I see damn convincing evidence that it will be a benefit long term.

Given the nature of CWD and what we know now, I'm not very convinced this plan will work...hope I'm wrong about that.
 
Meat has to be deboned and all brain/spinal column has to be removed prior to transport out of State.
Not exactly. You do not have to debone. However, you can not transport any portion of the spine or brain matter. Below is a cut and paste from G&F booklet:

(b) Except as provided in this subsection (a) of this section, only the following parts of any deer, elk or moose taken in Wyoming may be transported in Wyoming: edible portions with no part of the spinal column or head attached; cleaned hide without the head; skull or skull plate or antlers that have been cleaned of all meat and brain tissue; teeth; or, finished taxidermy mounts.

(c) Only the following parts of any deer, elk or moose taken in Wyoming may be transported to other states, provinces or countries: edible portions with no part of the spinal column or head; cleaned hide without the head; skull or skull plate or antlers that have been cleaned of all meat and brain tissue; teeth; or finished taxidermy mounts. Whole deer, elk and moose carcasses shall not be transported out of Wyoming.


Edible portions includes the bones, i.e., ribs for this definition. I personally do not debone until I get ready to process it because I do some bone in roasts and ribs. I also use marrow bones to make broth with the same way you make beef broth from beef bones. I sometimes quarter to get everything to fit in my coolers if it is on the warm side hunting but I do not debone for a couple days after the kill.

For specific questions, call:
307-777-4600
Monday-Friday 8:00 AM - 5:00 PM (Mountain Time), excluding holidays
Always get your advice direct from G&F where compliance is a concern
You can also submit your question online at below link. They have been really good to me answering my question and I can't find the old email they sent me but I asked this very question but the above is basically how they responded to me.
 
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Are you serious?

When was the last time you identified a 50-60-200 mile whitetail migration corridor?

Whitetail have a much easier life over-all, they live in soybean fields, alfalfa fields, corn fields.

They reproduce more rapidly than mule deer.

Do I need to go on?
Hey no need to be so mean about this....it was an honest question about how its different between the two species.

If mule deer migrate along the same corridors and in some cases use the exact same saddle or drainage, wouldn't that be an argument for it being worse than a local non-migrating whitetail herd? Those prions would build up year after year in the exact same location basically creating this super hot zone of CWD for all mule deer that migrate through the area for generations of deer.
 
If mule deer migrate along the same corridors and in some cases use the exact same saddle or drainage, wouldn't that be an argument for it being worse than a local non-migrating whitetail herd? Those prions would build up year after year in the exact same location basically creating this super hot zone of CWD for all mule deer that migrate through the area for generations of deer.
Not really. They have to spend 365 days a year somewhere. Having all of those days be on a tiny home range vs spread over some 10’s of thousands of acres or more would mean less focal hot areas and likely reduced environmental transmission because mule deer densities are generally far lower than what you guys see in white tails further East. And this is assuming environmental transmission is significant. We think so, and we know it happens, but no studies yet exist that elucidate the relative rates or importance of environmental vs animal-to-animal transmission.
 
My experience in Wyoming with mule is a little limited but I have observed mule deer in huge numbers in two locations. They are shown here on this CWD map from the article, one spot Northeast of Buffalo along the Powder River and one East of Saratoga.

1598799917560.png

Both of these areas, the time of year was October. Around Saratoga, we observed probably 50-100 mule deer and probably 75% of them were along the creek drainage around Elk mountain. They were out feeding on agricultural fields or bedded in brush adjacent to them. Further north along the Powder River northeast of Buffalo and it was ridiculous how many mule deer existed up there along that river corridor. A lush green alfalfa field would have 50 mule and whitetail deer out in it. One field we counted 19 4x4 bucks out in it. Seems to me given these hot spots on the map above being right where we observed these mule deer that the river corridors and adjacent agricultural fields are a problem just like it is with the whitetails we have here in Wisconsin. I'm really struggling to see the difference in transmission in these locations based on my limited first hand knowledge of these areas.
 
I'm going to add this link into this thread for food for thought. The UP is somewhat different from the vast majority of Wisconsin white-tailed deer migration vs not. This CWD strategic study looks to have placement along the northern Wisconsin border. For the biologists or concerned people that are trying to feel out what this Wyoming CWD plan is, this might be worth contacting the Michigan DNR Biologists listed for some initial information on migration distance and determining a formula that might be used for or against future CWD plans in Wyoming. There is a lot of complexity to the seasonal deer movements in this study area.

 
Not exactly. You do not have to debone. However, you can not transport any portion of the spine or brain matter. Below is a cut and paste from G&F booklet:

(b) Except as provided in this subsection (a) of this section, only the following parts of any deer, elk or moose taken in Wyoming may be transported in Wyoming: edible portions with no part of the spinal column or head attached; cleaned hide without the head; skull or skull plate or antlers that have been cleaned of all meat and brain tissue; teeth; or, finished taxidermy mounts.

(c) Only the following parts of any deer, elk or moose taken in Wyoming may be transported to other states, provinces or countries: edible portions with no part of the spinal column or head; cleaned hide without the head; skull or skull plate or antlers that have been cleaned of all meat and brain tissue; teeth; or finished taxidermy mounts. Whole deer, elk and moose carcasses shall not be transported out of Wyoming.


Edible portions includes the bones, i.e., ribs for this definition. I personally do not debone until I get ready to process it because I do some bone in roasts and ribs. I also use marrow bones to make broth with the same way you make beef broth from beef bones. I sometimes quarter to get everything to fit in my coolers if it is on the warm side hunting but I do not debone for a couple days after the kill.

For specific questions, call:
307-777-4600
Monday-Friday 8:00 AM - 5:00 PM (Mountain Time), excluding holidays
Always get your advice direct from G&F where compliance is a concern
You can also submit your question online at below link. They have been really good to me answering my question and I can't find the old email they sent me but I asked this very question but the above is basically how they responded to me.


For me to get it home, I have to debone.
 
It's important to know the export restrictions for the state you're hunting, and the import restrictions for where you're taking it.

Some people may have to debone to bring it into their state. But you do not have to debone to remove from the state of Wyoming.
 
For me to get it home, I have to debone.
Call and check. You do not have to debone. Seriously. You do have to remove the spine and all brain tissue. You can quarter it out, cut the ribs off and take them or use the gutless method and be perfectly legal. Some do like to debone. But the fact is, you do not have to debone as far as Wyoming's CWD requirements go. That does not speak for other states though. Some states have stricter requirements for you to import the meat into that state.
 
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Call and check. You do not have to debone. Seriously. You do have to remove the spine and all brain tissue. You can quarter it out, cut the ribs off and take them or use the gutless method and be perfectly legal. Some do like to debone. But the fact is, you do not have to debone as far as Wyoming's CWD requirements go.
I think what they’re saying Doug is that to import into their home states they must remove the bones, regardless of what Wyoming’s law is. For most people, the import requirements of their home states or transit states are more impactful than the regs for moving animals within the state they are hunting.
 
Not only are older bucks infected at a higher rate, they are also more nomadic. That raises an interesting question as to whether they are more prone to infection because they come in contact with more smaller subsets of the population, or is it because of other factors? And do they then pose a greater threat of transferring the disease amongst those subsets of the population?

I think the biggest point here @Hunting Wife and @BuzzH have raised is this must be a LONG term study in order to get meaningful data, and it's unlikely to be followed through to the extent it needs to be in order to glean any hard management data from it.
 
I think what they’re saying Doug is that to import into their home states they must remove the bones, regardless of what Wyoming’s law is. For most people, the import requirements of their home states or transit states are more impactful than the regs for moving animals within the state they are hunting.
I understand that. Colorado for example recommends deboning but nothing in their regs specifically requires it. They do require removal of spinal column, brain tissue, lymph nodes and fatty tissue and most of the organs. You have to verify the laws both of your home state where you intend to import the meat or carcass to AND the state you are hunting and moving it from.

What LCH posts in #29 is what I am trying to say. Just that it is not a Wyoming requirement.
 
My experience in Wyoming with mule is a little limited but I have observed mule deer in huge numbers in two locations. They are shown here on this CWD map from the article, one spot Northeast of Buffalo along the Powder River and one East of Saratoga.

View attachment 152310

Both of these areas, the time of year was October. Around Saratoga, we observed probably 50-100 mule deer and probably 75% of them were along the creek drainage around Elk mountain. They were out feeding on agricultural fields or bedded in brush adjacent to them. Further north along the Powder River northeast of Buffalo and it was ridiculous how many mule deer existed up there along that river corridor. A lush green alfalfa field would have 50 mule and whitetail deer out in it. One field we counted 19 4x4 bucks out in it. Seems to me given these hot spots on the map above being right where we observed these mule deer that the river corridors and adjacent agricultural fields are a problem just like it is with the whitetails we have here in Wisconsin. I'm really struggling to see the difference in transmission in these locations based on my limited first hand knowledge of these areas.
Comparing Wisconsin to Wyoming for anything concerning wildlife is laughable . Your not looking at it from right angle . Listen to buzz on this one
 
Comparing Wisconsin to Wyoming for anything concerning wildlife is laughable . Your not looking at it from right angle . Listen to buzz on this one
You're right. Wyoming is probably worse in the areas I saw. Every yard along the river looked like this where they were eating the owners plants and drinking out of his bird feeder. CWD fast spreading in that scenario...and we aren't talking about just a few select farms. This was 50 miles of us driving the powder river watching in awe at the amount of mulies along this river. Probably saw 5 to 10 bucks per mile of road or so.

1010191715b.jpg
 
You're right. Wyoming is probably worse in the areas I saw. Every yard along the river looked like this where they were eating the owners plants and drinking out of his bird feeder. CWD fast spreading in that scenario...and we aren't talking about just a few select farms. This was 50 miles of us driving the powder river watching in awe at the amount of mulies along this river. Probably saw 5 to 10 bucks per mile of road or so.

View attachment 152383

Your sample size is suspect. Deer densities in NE Wyoming around the black hills are wayyyyy higher than the areas near Saratoga and Sheridan that you're referencing. That area has lots of ag and is just great deer habitat, yet, despite higher deer density, prevalence is lower. Also, prevalence is way higher in the Laramie range than either Saratoga or Sheridan, yet deer densities in the Laramie Range are very low.

You're too quick to be "right" and end up breaking your leg jumping to unfounded conclusions...

Bottom line, I don't think high prevalence is tied to high deer density or at the very least there is a pretty distinct lack of evidence to that in areas of Wyoming. I also don't believe that low deer densities means lower prevalence either, again due to the evidence of that in some other areas of Wyoming.

If someone had the answers, the Biologists in Wyoming wouldn't be asking Wyoming sportsmen to begin experimenting away their mule deer populations looking for a solution.
 
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