Wolves increase antelope population!!

[Ithaca 37]

"pronghorn numbers are actually increasing since the wolf was reintroduced."

If coyotes are responsible for low mulie numbers because they kill mulie fawns maybe wolves will increase the mule deer populations, just as they have for pronghorns. Wouldn't that be great!

What do all you wolf haters have to say about this news?

Notice the part about no effect on bighorns? Didn't somebody here in SI tell us the wolves were killing all the bighorns? Was that you, Paul?

http://www.casperstartribune.net/articles/2003/04/23/news/wyoming/12861f2dbfdeffdc865e03aaf52c2045.txt

 

[BigHornyRam]

Ithaca,

I can easily believe that the increased presense of wolves in Y. P. have lowered the coyote populations, and thus have had a positive short term impact on the Antelope. Only time will tell what the long term impact will be. Montana FWP has recently stopped a hunt for antelope just outside the North Enterance. Maybe this has had an impact on the Antelope populations as well?

From personal experience I can tell you that the Bighorn populations in and around the park are on a slow decline. A band of rams that used to migrate to and from Mount Everts, now stays there year round. The ram count continues to dwindle. I would like to see the data from the past several years that supports this article. Can you post a link?

Paul

 

[Ithaca 37]

So now you want supporting data? I offered to give you plenty when you called me a liar on the Idaho FNAWS controversy rumor you promulgated but you preferred to remain ignorant. You could have talked directly to the falsely accused.

I don't know where the Casper Tribune got the info. And don't expect me to track down the supporting data for everything some newspaper mentions in an editorial. Maybe you can do a search yourself, as I did (Real easily). Here's more info about pronghorn survival where wolves are. Can't be copied, so scroll down 'til you find it.

http://www.uidaho.edu/herewehaveidaho/PDF/WINTER02Magazine.pdf

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 05-05-2003 08:27: Message edited by: Ithaca 37 ]</font>

 

[Muledeer4me]

"And don't expect me to track down the supporting data for everything some newspaper mentions in an editorial. Maybe you can do a search yourself, as I did (Real easily). "

ROFLMAO,No Paul ,that isn't his job to supply supporting data

That rule can only be demanded by Ithaca of all the other poster's.

Don't forget we play by two sets of rule's when posting here

Please refer to the rule's again,
Rule # 1
WE ARE TO TAKE ANYTHING HE POST'S AS THE ONLY TRUTH AND NOT QUESTION IT "EVER"
HE SHOULD NEVER BE ASKED TO SUPPLY ANY FACT'S OR EXTRA DATA .

Rule # 2
ALL OTHER POSTER'S MUST SUPPLY any and ALL INFO. HE REQUEST'S AT ANYTIME or RISK THE RATH OF ITHACA.
LOL

 

[Ithaca 37]

MD4M, Can't you ever contribute anything to these discussions besides your diatribes? I gave the link to the origional article in my first post. More backup in my second. If Paul wants more he can look for it as easily as I can.

 

[BigHornyRam]

Ithaca,

I think I'll do search as well from Ralph Maughan's web-site so I can get the "facts". Thanks.

Paul

 

[Ten Bears]

Don't kid yourself. The goats are on the edge of the wolfs dinner plate. when the elk and deer populations are thinned, antelope will be on the menu too (fawns are easy to catch when your in a pack).

 

[Ithaca 37]

Ten, Do you have any facts/data/studies to prove that?

 

[Ten Bears]

To prove what, wolfs will eat antelope??? All you have is an "educated guess" that wolves are the reason for the increase in antelope through coyote decline. Were are your facts? That article is nothing more then an observation.

Time will tell.

 

[BuzzH]

Ten bears, you dont know a damn thing about wildlife...it shows big time.

Where to start...even though I'm probably wasting my time.

Wolves kill the shit out of coyotes...undisputed fact. Do you agree? Do I have to provide a couple dozen peer-reviewed articles for you to grasp what every first year wildlife major knows?

I'll assume you agree.

Do you also agree that a vast majority of ungulate off-spring are born within a 2-3 week period of time? Again, do I have to provide proof or do you agree.

I'll assume you agree.

Coyotes normally hunt alone or in small groups and they spread out and cover one hell of a lot of country. In a given land unit, you'll have a higher density of coyotes than wolves, because of the wolves instinct to defend a much larger home range. Ever seen a coyote hunting, they dont miss much, I tell you what.

Wolves normally hunt in a pack and that will be the ONLY group of wolves in that area. I guarantee that in the few critical weeks after ungululates have their off-spring a bunch of coyotes will kill, and find, a higher percentage of the fawns than one pack of wolves. Thats one of the reasons why ungulates have all their off-spring in a short period of time...after a few weeks, they have a better chance of getting away than being taken by a wolf or coyote...and predators can only kill so many in that critical couple three weeks.

Its intuatively obvious that if you reduce a more abundant wide-spread predator (coyotes) from an area and replace it with fewer predators (wolves) that predation on the fawns will decrease...and the science supports that.

 

[Ithaca 37]

Buzz, Don't be too hard on Ten. He gives us lots of opportunities to educate people about these issues when he comes up with his loony tune theories.

Without Ten and a few others here in SI we'd have a hard time keeping a discussion going because the rest of us know the facts already.

 

[JoseCuervo]

Ithica,

I can always argue the other side if you need. Hell, I was the only one who put a plausible defense about Welfare Ranching improving the rangeland by keeping the Cheet Grass mowed down...

 

[Ten Bears]

BUZZ & IT, I see that you have both smuggly outwitted yourselves again. Oh, to have so much intellectual want, but no ability. You have not even grasped the time will tell portion of my statement.
The antelope population will not continue to boom because of the presence of wolfs. Wolfs do eat antelope. Show me they don't BUZZ. I watched wolfs hunt antelope one day. Tell me I'm wrong again BUZZ.

This article that you putting such faith in is nothing more then an observation, and "educated guess". That is all, nothing more to it then that.

Yes, wolfs kill coyotes. No wolfs do not always hunt in a group pack, as much as members will kill and then the pack will feed. It aint african lions we're talkin' about here. You guys need to learn more about wolf pack behavior. Maybe more firsthand personal observations, and a little less reading.

 

[Oak]

I guess I missed the place where Buzz said wolves wouldn't kill antelope.

Oak

 

[BuzzH]

Oak, yeah, I must have missed that part too.

What Ten doesnt realize is that wolves, coyotes, etc. dont kill many adult antelope. About the only real mortality they suffer is the first few weeks of their lives.

Its pretty apparent to biologists everywhere that coyote densities exceed wolf densities. Therefore coyotes will kill more fawns than wolves...simply because of the number and style of hunting differences between wolves and coyotes.

Ten, go take a couple wildlife courses, you dont know what you're mumbling about.

 

[Ten Bears]

Sorry, CO, I guess I missed the part were I said wolfs would kill coyotes.
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> All you have is an "educated guess" that wolves are the reason for the increase in antelope through coyote decline. Yes, wolfs kill coyotes. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> They also kill bear, mt lions, fox......
Wolfs will not be the sole reason for population crashes or increases, but they will play a role as a major predator.