tufferthandug
New member
Hahahahaha!
Wolves attack and kill hounds....
- Thread starter Hiker
- Start date
T Bone
Well-known member
LOL, that's funny green.
Sad story for sure. Dramatized IMO.
Are wolves potentially dangerous to life and property? I think so. So are bears and lions. If I want to walk in the woods, I accept the risk of large predators and will take a pea shooter with me (which may or may not help).
The wolves are here to stay. Hopefully they can be managed by the state, providing a hunting opportunity.
Sad story for sure. Dramatized IMO.
Are wolves potentially dangerous to life and property? I think so. So are bears and lions. If I want to walk in the woods, I accept the risk of large predators and will take a pea shooter with me (which may or may not help).
The wolves are here to stay. Hopefully they can be managed by the state, providing a hunting opportunity.
fowladdict
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2005
- Messages
- 2,560
For some weird reason I don't think the anti-hunters would really do this.
I feel bad for the dog owners, but I hope hunting season gets here soon. I've read a lot about wolves lately.
Buckshot
New member
Jose,
In order to restore my faith in hunters in general I hope there's some reason other than the obvious that you asked why this story was sad. Like maybe you're just playing dumb. If that's the case, congratulations!...you win the stupid contest! Or maybe it was a poor attempt at humor...sorry, no prize awarded in the humor department. Or maybe you like to stir the shit. Or maybe you're just a drunken monkey randomly typing words that have no meaning to you.
Any of those answers would seem a lot more acceptable to me than the possibility that another hunter could read a story like that and not feel a bit of empathy or pain for the guy that just had his hounds killed by wolves. I'd expect it from an anti-hunter but since you hang out here at Moosie's I'm guessing you're not one of those. There's no question that the story was over-emotional and the guy went a little overboard on some of his points, but I guess I'm willing to cut him just a bit of slack given what he'd recently been through. Bottom line is, most normal folks wouldn't have much difficulty seeing what's sad about a guy's dogs getting killed.
In order to restore my faith in hunters in general I hope there's some reason other than the obvious that you asked why this story was sad. Like maybe you're just playing dumb. If that's the case, congratulations!...you win the stupid contest! Or maybe it was a poor attempt at humor...sorry, no prize awarded in the humor department. Or maybe you like to stir the shit. Or maybe you're just a drunken monkey randomly typing words that have no meaning to you.
Any of those answers would seem a lot more acceptable to me than the possibility that another hunter could read a story like that and not feel a bit of empathy or pain for the guy that just had his hounds killed by wolves. I'd expect it from an anti-hunter but since you hang out here at Moosie's I'm guessing you're not one of those. There's no question that the story was over-emotional and the guy went a little overboard on some of his points, but I guess I'm willing to cut him just a bit of slack given what he'd recently been through. Bottom line is, most normal folks wouldn't have much difficulty seeing what's sad about a guy's dogs getting killed.
JoseCuervo
New member
Buckshot said:
It is not even an "emotional" response. It is clearly calculated and choreographed by Ron Gillette and his anti wolf stances. There are numerous things about this letter that raise my suspicions however...constant reference to "Canadian wolves"...the elk, moose herds being decimated....the number of times "children" are brought up
...sounds like all of Gilette's talking points.....be that as it may, if you bring your dogs into wolf territory you take your chances...blame the wolves if you like, but the owner bears responsibilty as well....
The guy has ran hounds for 34 years, and the day he loses two hounds, he quits hunting? Are you serious? If you were sad about the loss of your dog, would you pose with it, holding it by the ear??? Sorry, not me.
I have had to make more emergency trips to the Vet with a hunting dog than I care to remember and, unfortunately, have had to put down hunting dogs. It has always been some sort of consolation to me that they were able to do what they were bred to do. I have had to put down a horse that was hurt hunting. Was it sad? Sure, but I am not going to hold up its head for pictures.
If the guy's goal was to evoke pity and sorrow for himself, his writing sure has a funny way of attempting to manipulate the reader.
FAIRCHASEBEN
New member
You nailed it Buckshot!Buckshot said:
Wouldn't it be great if Queervo wasn't just some spineless little gelding hiding behind a computer and actually had the stones to confront someone face to face who's had their dogs ripped apart by wolves and say to him "why is that sad"?
We'd see that guy holding Queervo up by the ear after he'd beat him like a Sunday morning boner!
Hunterman
New member
Lets see now ,,,,man runs dogs out in the WILD after bears...He's been running dogs quite sometime and has never lost one before this ???
How many of y'all have seen wolves in the wild?? And how many have been attacked?? How many of you hound hunters out there have had your dogs eaten by wolves???
I have had a few encounters with wolves..In Montana one year I came up on 6 of them while out elk hunting...2 of them were about 10 yards when I came over this hill and walked up on them..Every one of them ran away, not one attacked...Another time was when I lived in Alaska and ran acrossed some wolves,,again they ran away...
The only thing really missing in this guys story was a chick in a red hooded cape hump
Hunterman(Tony)
,,,,man runs dogs out in the WILD after bears...He's been running dogs quite sometime and has never lost one before this ???How many of y'all have seen wolves in the wild?? And how many have been attacked?? How many of you hound hunters out there have had your dogs eaten by wolves???
I have had a few encounters with wolves..In Montana one year I came up on 6 of them while out elk hunting...2 of them were about 10 yards when I came over this hill and walked up on them..Every one of them ran away, not one attacked...Another time was when I lived in Alaska and ran acrossed some wolves,,again they ran away...
The only thing really missing in this guys story was a chick in a red hooded cape hump
Hunterman(Tony)
Cathunt MT
New member
I have seen them in the wild. I have not been attacked but I did see two guys in Alaska get surrounded by them one time. Intel the one of them shot the biggest male and the rest ran off. And there are hound dogs killed in MT every year. I dont turn my dogs out on a track if I know there are wolves in the area. So it has not happed to me.
BuzzH
Well-known member
Houndsmen lose dogs from time to time, if they cant accept it, I suggest they quit and take up golf.
That article is nothing more than sensationalism at its finest.
If I ran hounds, I wouldnt think twice about sending them out on a cat/bear track...wolves or not. They're a tool like a crescent wrench, break one, buy another.
That article is nothing more than sensationalism at its finest.
If I ran hounds, I wouldnt think twice about sending them out on a cat/bear track...wolves or not. They're a tool like a crescent wrench, break one, buy another.
wsmslinger
New member
i agree with that Jose... if he was sad about the whole thing i really dont thik he woulda taken that pic .
Calif. Hunter
Active member
The picture is to add emotional impact to the guy's story. If I was pissed off enough, I'd take a picture like that to rile folks up.
I only chased hounds a few times as a kid, with my Dad's friend from work who chased cats and coons. I've owned a few bird dogs, but they were pets as much as they were tools. Since I don't know this man, I can't claim to know what he is thinking or what his relationship with his dogs was.
I only chased hounds a few times as a kid, with my Dad's friend from work who chased cats and coons. I've owned a few bird dogs, but they were pets as much as they were tools. Since I don't know this man, I can't claim to know what he is thinking or what his relationship with his dogs was.
Bambistew
Well-known member
I agree 100% with Buzz and Jose.
Hound dogs are tools for hunting. I'll put $100 on the table that says that guy has shot at least one of his own hound dogs in the 34 years... Hell I'd put $200 on it that he's shot more than one! Thats part of hound life, especially if he's been around it for that long, I'll garentee you that this isn't the first hound dog he's seen dead nor will it be the last. Get real, this guy isn't going to give up what he obviously loves to do because he lost half his 'pack' to wolves. The picture of him holding up whats left of his beloved Blackie by the ear proves how much respect he has for them!
Hound dogs are tools for hunting. I'll put $100 on the table that says that guy has shot at least one of his own hound dogs in the 34 years... Hell I'd put $200 on it that he's shot more than one! Thats part of hound life, especially if he's been around it for that long, I'll garentee you that this isn't the first hound dog he's seen dead nor will it be the last. Get real, this guy isn't going to give up what he obviously loves to do because he lost half his 'pack' to wolves. The picture of him holding up whats left of his beloved Blackie by the ear proves how much respect he has for them!
wsmslinger
New member
Bambistew said:
You got it bambi! No need to drop hunting f**k it get more dogs and get even! I dont know about respect for the dog if he had respect for that dog it would be that wolves head!
Buckshot
New member
Wow, the range of responses to this amazes me. I was feeling kinda bad about calling out Jose because I assumed just about any hunter would feel empathy for what that guy went through with his dogs…but now it’s looking like that’s not necessarily the case at all. So I apologize Jose. I guess there’s just vastly more of a gulf between hound-hunters and other hunters than I ever realized.
That becomes painfully obvious when someone suggests that a hound is just a tool that’s as easy to replace as a crescent wrench. Personally I’ve never fed, watered, trained, and vetted a crescent wrench for 2 years only to have it not work out and have to take it out and shoot it…despite a strong personal attachment to it. Nor have I ever had a crescent wrench show much affection, learn to do its job better over time, or train young crescent wrenches how to do their job. My kids haven’t named any of my wrenches nor have the wrenches shown any inclination to want to play with my kids. We don’t have to plan family vacations around times when someone else is available to care for our crescent wrenches while we’re away. Fortunately or unfortunately, depending upon your perspective, you can’t just go down to the hound dog store and pick up a pack of good dogs that will do it all.
I agree that fella probably has had to cull a few dogs that wouldn’t work out in his time but I doubt if he enjoyed it or was even indifferent about it. That’s part of what makes his situation sad to someone experienced with hounds, there’s so much a houndsman has to go through to get a good pack of dogs. There’s been a fair bit of criticism of him for claiming to quit after this but I think I can see his point. If wolves got to the point where a guy was losing dogs to them on a real regular basis then I reckon that would just take most of the fun right out of it and I’d be inclined to throw in the towel too. I’m not trying to say it has gotten to that point, but he clearly feels that way and I don’t blame him for not wanting to feed more dogs to the wolves.
There’s obviously an incredible difference in perspective on this between the guys that have had hounds and those that haven’t and I hope this will help somebody see our side of it a bit more.
That becomes painfully obvious when someone suggests that a hound is just a tool that’s as easy to replace as a crescent wrench. Personally I’ve never fed, watered, trained, and vetted a crescent wrench for 2 years only to have it not work out and have to take it out and shoot it…despite a strong personal attachment to it. Nor have I ever had a crescent wrench show much affection, learn to do its job better over time, or train young crescent wrenches how to do their job. My kids haven’t named any of my wrenches nor have the wrenches shown any inclination to want to play with my kids. We don’t have to plan family vacations around times when someone else is available to care for our crescent wrenches while we’re away. Fortunately or unfortunately, depending upon your perspective, you can’t just go down to the hound dog store and pick up a pack of good dogs that will do it all.
I agree that fella probably has had to cull a few dogs that wouldn’t work out in his time but I doubt if he enjoyed it or was even indifferent about it. That’s part of what makes his situation sad to someone experienced with hounds, there’s so much a houndsman has to go through to get a good pack of dogs. There’s been a fair bit of criticism of him for claiming to quit after this but I think I can see his point. If wolves got to the point where a guy was losing dogs to them on a real regular basis then I reckon that would just take most of the fun right out of it and I’d be inclined to throw in the towel too. I’m not trying to say it has gotten to that point, but he clearly feels that way and I don’t blame him for not wanting to feed more dogs to the wolves.
There’s obviously an incredible difference in perspective on this between the guys that have had hounds and those that haven’t and I hope this will help somebody see our side of it a bit more.
JoseCuervo
New member
Buckshot said:
Buckshot,
If you want to have sympathy toward a hunter that lost his dogs, check out this thread.
http://www.hunttalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27364
As far as the Crescent Wrenches, I have given profane names to most of mine, and I will call them by those names when I bust my knuckles....
If the guy from Grangville is writing this to garner sympathy for the loss of his dog, he did a lousy job of it. It is clear, at least to me, that he wrote his sad tale of woe in order to exploit the loss of his two eared, zero legged dog Blackie. Why else would he work in the "Canadian Wolves" comment, the reference to the kid in Canada that got ate by the county landfill (the only known human death caused by wolves), the fear for children, the decimated moose and elk heards, etc.... Can you think of a single one of Gillettes "points" that the guy doesn't hit in his story about the loss of Blackie?
And you are right, I have never owned hounds, but I have owned bird dogs and horses, and I have always known that there was a risk that I might lose one doing what I love to do, and what the animal loves to do. In fact, when I borrow horses, when needed, I agree on a price with the owner before taking them, as I want all parties to know that there is a risk and there might not be a horse brought back. Is that cold? Perhaps, but, as Buzz put it, they are "tools".
Do I feel bad when somebody loses a pet? Yep. Do I feel bad when somebody loses a tool? Nahhh... Do I have sympathy for someone who exploits the loss of a dog to make political statements about "Canadian wolves" that decimate Elk and Moose herds? Nahhh....
Buckshot, would you quit hunting with hounds if a Cat turned two of your dogs into something similar to what Blackie looks like?
Cathunt MT
New member
I think the big thing is it was Wolves. I think he got into it a little on the story. But it is hard to replace a good dog and takes some $$$$$ to. The thing that would have been diff. if it was me is I would have shot every wolf I could. I dont think it was a good idea to go to a tree with out a gun or a bow.
We where doing fine with out wolves why bring them back. And do you think he got Money for wolves killing his TOOLS?
We where doing fine with out wolves why bring them back. And do you think he got Money for wolves killing his TOOLS?
BuzzH
Well-known member
No he didnt get money for them...and rightfully so. The law is clear that dogs are not something you get compensated for when wolves turn them into swiss cheese.
The Hedgehog
Well-known member
Any houndsman would be bummed out about loosing some good dogs. But hey, I'm betting NO WAY is this guy giving up the sport. I hope the competing houndsmen in his area read it and can give him a little guff about it in the years to come.
Clint do you know the guy? If so, when you run into him in the field in the next few years, here's some conversation starters...
"I thought you were hanging it up?"
"Out again, eh? Even with all these scary wolves?"
"You aren't going lion hunting are you?? With all them wolves?? Are you crazy?"
Taking your dogs to the slaughter again, eh? You should be ashamed!"
"Is that your son? You're not taking him out in the hills with all those man-eating wolves are you?"
"Damn wolves, when was the last time YOU saw an elk?"
Clint do you know the guy? If so, when you run into him in the field in the next few years, here's some conversation starters...
"I thought you were hanging it up?"
"Out again, eh? Even with all these scary wolves?"
"You aren't going lion hunting are you?? With all them wolves?? Are you crazy?"
Taking your dogs to the slaughter again, eh? You should be ashamed!"
"Is that your son? You're not taking him out in the hills with all those man-eating wolves are you?"
"Damn wolves, when was the last time YOU saw an elk?"
Ten Bears
New member
I'm feel sorry for the guy if he truly did lose his hounds that way, but truthfully, I think there is/was more to the story then he is saying.
I ask all our Idaho houndsmen here; why wasn't he pack'n a pistol or other firearm?
I must have missed the article about the guy in Canadia. DOes anybody have a link to it?
I ask all our Idaho houndsmen here; why wasn't he pack'n a pistol or other firearm?
I must have missed the article about the guy in Canadia. DOes anybody have a link to it?
Buckshot
New member
Jose-
For some reason it says I'm unauthorized to look at that link...guess I'm just not important enough. As for the names you call your crescent wrench...I guarantee they pale in comparison to the names we call our dogs when they're screwing up!
I think putting a price on a horse or a dog is smart when they're borrowed as there certainly is no guarantee they'll come back every time you use them. But just because you've put a price on them doesn't mean the owner isn't sentimentally attached to them, or that he'll be able to go out the next day and replace them for the price agreed upon. Hounds are at least part pets to even the most callous houndsman.
The fact that this has even become a debate on a hunting site is both amazing and depressing to me. Although this guy isn't even involved in the discussion he's being drug over the coals for bitching about wolves immediately after a good part of his pack has been killed by them. I could certainly see it happening if the story came up at a Sierra Club dinner...but among a bunch of hunters...I just don't get it. Yeah, he's clearly emotional and has brought up every marginally possible argument against wolves...probably wouldn't be my first choice for spokesman on the wolf management board...but I'm willing to cut him a little slack and I'm surprised at those of you on this board that aren't.
A lion did once kill one of my dogs and seriously injured the other dog I had at the time. It also fed on the dog it killed before I found it. When I found the dog it was one of the saddest moments in my life. Despite that, I did consider taking a picture of the dog but in my case decided not to. If I'd come back the next day maybe I would have (I did take pictures of the surviving dog after his head was all stitched up and he was looking like Frankenstein). It's hard to explain why I considered taking a picture but I guess as close as I can come is that it was an extremely unusual and significant event in my life and a picture would have documented it and possibly helped others understand. I'll admit it also briefly crossed my mind to get out of hound-hunting but was never a serious consideration on my part. But I knew what a fluke deal that was and the odds of it happening again were slim and none. If wolves got to the point that this was happening to me every year or two or three...I'm pretty sure I'd be done, despite loving it as much as I do.
I agree that this guy probably won't quit hound-hunting, but I believe he planned to at the time he wrote it. According to the dates the dogs must have been killed very shortly before he wrote his story so he may not have completely thought it all through yet.
So, I don't really see the whole thing as exploiting the situation like you do. I see it more as venting. If a person's wife were raped and killed by a gang of Mexicans (no offense, Jose ;-)), most people would probably cut him some slack if he were ranting, raving and saying some stuff about Mexicans in general that weren't really true. I doubt if he would be accused of exploiting his situation to make political statements about illegal immigration!
Buzz-
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that Defenders of Wildlife would compensate for dogs that were "turned into swiss cheese" as long as they were herding or livestock dogs. And I'm quite sure that they do compensate for horses. So if I'm right about those things it seems only logical that hounds killed by wolves should also qualify. I understand that they are not at this time but it seems to me they should be.
Greenie-
No, I don't know the guy but I know other guys that have lost dogs the same way. It's becoming not uncommon. I agree that he'll probably be back at it soon and maybe I'll print off your suggestions just in case I happen to run into him. Do your suggestions come with life insurance?....because I'm pretty sure he'll be packing iron on any future hunts.
Ten Bears-
I'm guessing he wasn't packing a firearm because lots of houndsmen commonly don't. For most houndsmen the success or failure of a hunt is dictated by whether or not the game was treed and how well the dogs performed, the killing is a very minor part of it and there are lots of days we just go out for fun with no intention of killing something even if it is treed. It's a pretty common predicament for a group of houndsmen to walk a mile or so into a tree, discover that there's a particularly trophy critter in the tree that really should be taken, and only then learn that not one of the 4 or 5 hunters bothered to pack in a shooter! When the dogs do have conflicts with whatever they're chasing, bear, lion, sasquatch, etc., the hunter is usually too far away to do anything about it so it's easy to get in the habit of never carrying a firearm. With wolves around it might be a good idea to start packing I guess.
For some reason it says I'm unauthorized to look at that link...guess I'm just not important enough. As for the names you call your crescent wrench...I guarantee they pale in comparison to the names we call our dogs when they're screwing up!
I think putting a price on a horse or a dog is smart when they're borrowed as there certainly is no guarantee they'll come back every time you use them. But just because you've put a price on them doesn't mean the owner isn't sentimentally attached to them, or that he'll be able to go out the next day and replace them for the price agreed upon. Hounds are at least part pets to even the most callous houndsman.
The fact that this has even become a debate on a hunting site is both amazing and depressing to me. Although this guy isn't even involved in the discussion he's being drug over the coals for bitching about wolves immediately after a good part of his pack has been killed by them. I could certainly see it happening if the story came up at a Sierra Club dinner...but among a bunch of hunters...I just don't get it. Yeah, he's clearly emotional and has brought up every marginally possible argument against wolves...probably wouldn't be my first choice for spokesman on the wolf management board...but I'm willing to cut him a little slack and I'm surprised at those of you on this board that aren't.
A lion did once kill one of my dogs and seriously injured the other dog I had at the time. It also fed on the dog it killed before I found it. When I found the dog it was one of the saddest moments in my life. Despite that, I did consider taking a picture of the dog but in my case decided not to. If I'd come back the next day maybe I would have (I did take pictures of the surviving dog after his head was all stitched up and he was looking like Frankenstein). It's hard to explain why I considered taking a picture but I guess as close as I can come is that it was an extremely unusual and significant event in my life and a picture would have documented it and possibly helped others understand. I'll admit it also briefly crossed my mind to get out of hound-hunting but was never a serious consideration on my part. But I knew what a fluke deal that was and the odds of it happening again were slim and none. If wolves got to the point that this was happening to me every year or two or three...I'm pretty sure I'd be done, despite loving it as much as I do.
I agree that this guy probably won't quit hound-hunting, but I believe he planned to at the time he wrote it. According to the dates the dogs must have been killed very shortly before he wrote his story so he may not have completely thought it all through yet.
So, I don't really see the whole thing as exploiting the situation like you do. I see it more as venting. If a person's wife were raped and killed by a gang of Mexicans (no offense, Jose ;-)), most people would probably cut him some slack if he were ranting, raving and saying some stuff about Mexicans in general that weren't really true. I doubt if he would be accused of exploiting his situation to make political statements about illegal immigration!
Buzz-
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that Defenders of Wildlife would compensate for dogs that were "turned into swiss cheese" as long as they were herding or livestock dogs. And I'm quite sure that they do compensate for horses. So if I'm right about those things it seems only logical that hounds killed by wolves should also qualify. I understand that they are not at this time but it seems to me they should be.
Greenie-
No, I don't know the guy but I know other guys that have lost dogs the same way. It's becoming not uncommon. I agree that he'll probably be back at it soon and maybe I'll print off your suggestions just in case I happen to run into him. Do your suggestions come with life insurance?....because I'm pretty sure he'll be packing iron on any future hunts.
Ten Bears-
I'm guessing he wasn't packing a firearm because lots of houndsmen commonly don't. For most houndsmen the success or failure of a hunt is dictated by whether or not the game was treed and how well the dogs performed, the killing is a very minor part of it and there are lots of days we just go out for fun with no intention of killing something even if it is treed. It's a pretty common predicament for a group of houndsmen to walk a mile or so into a tree, discover that there's a particularly trophy critter in the tree that really should be taken, and only then learn that not one of the 4 or 5 hunters bothered to pack in a shooter! When the dogs do have conflicts with whatever they're chasing, bear, lion, sasquatch, etc., the hunter is usually too far away to do anything about it so it's easy to get in the habit of never carrying a firearm. With wolves around it might be a good idea to start packing I guess.
