Wolf relisting in a number of states

[MNElkNut]

I don't think they are solely to blame but they are the biggest cause of moose mortality. Let's say they kill x% of the moose and both species can have stable populations at that level. Then you add in brainworm at 1/5x and something else at 1/5 x and wolves increase 20% and that tips it over the edge and the moose population crashes. Do you blame the feather that broke the camels back or the main cause of moose mortality? You will have to decide that.

 

[jryoung]

If the wolves have always been in Minnesota, are they solely to blame for the declining moose population? Forgive me as I pay more attention to the wolf issue out West. Trying to learn. mtmuley

I did some digging a while back when MN announced they were going to close the moose season and found this.

Why did DNR suspend the northwest moose season in 1997?
The season was closed after 1996, when the population had declined from a peak point
estimate of 4,086 in 1985 down to 1,436 in 1996. This magnitude of decline is very similar to what has occurred in the northeast moose population in just the past seven years.

When was the moose population at its peak?
Aerial survey figures show that the northeast population peaked in 2006 at an estimated 8,840
moose.

I found it really interesting that there was a moose population low of 1,436 in 1996, but then rebounded at peaked to 8,840 in just 10 years (6x improvement) all while wolf population increased by 0.5x from roughly 2,000 to 3,000. Certainly these are just statistics and there are other factors at play, but I was surprised at the difference.

 

[gwhunter]

I found it really interesting that there was a moose population low of 1,436 in 1996, but then rebounded at peaked to 8,840 in just 10 years (6x improvement) all while wolf population increased by 0.5x from roughly 2,000 to 3,000. Certainly these are just statistics and there are other factors at play, but I was surprised at the difference.

Why did DNR suspend the northwest moose season in 1997?
The season was closed after 1996, when the population had declined from a peak point
estimate of 4,086 in 1985 down to 1,436 in 1996. This magnitude of decline is very similar to what has occurred in the northeast moose population in just the past seven years.

When was the moose population at its peak?
Aerial survey figures show that the northeast population peaked in 2006 at an estimated 8,840
moose.

I think you might have numbers that you are comparing across two different areas? The first number of 1,436 was in the northwest section while the 8,840 number was from the northeast section. I'm not sure if they are counting moose per section/location or if this is the statewide total?

 

[cascadehunter]

Death Spiral

Reading the bantering through all the posts. Bottom line guys, the wolf is a 'means to an end!' Bringing hunting to an END, is the goal. Wolf lover, environmentalist..core purpose? Antihunter, NO moose NO deer = NO hunting!! They really don't care about balance, sharing resources, healthy populations..whatever it is labeled. Don't let the argument separate us, our hunter resolve, band together for real conservation of our heritage & wild game resource. All needs true managed for a real healthy wild/ wilderness.

 

[cascadehunter]

Death Spiral

Reading the bantering through all the posts. Bottom line guys, the wolf is a 'means to an end!' Bringing hunting to an END, is the goal. Wolf lover, environmentalist..core purpose? Antihunter, NO moose NO deer = NO hunting!! They really don't care about balance, sharing resources, healthy populations..whatever it is labeled. Don't let the argument separate us, our hunter resolve, band together for real conservation of our heritage & wild game resource. All needs true managed for a real healthy wild/ wilderness.

 

[jryoung]

Reading the bantering through all the posts. Bottom line guys, the wolf is a 'means to an end!' Bringing hunting to an END, is the goal. Wolf lover, environmentalist..core purpose? Antihunter, NO moose NO deer = NO hunting!! They really don't care about balance, sharing resources, healthy populations..whatever it is labeled. Don't let the argument separate us, our hunter resolve, band together for real conservation of our heritage & wild game resource. All needs true managed for a real healthy wild/ wilderness.

I completely disagree, and your language is as divisive as the crap from the CBD. There are far greater threat to hunting as a whole including public land divestiture, manage wildlife social reasons as oppose to biological, landowner/outfitter tag allocation, oil/gas/mining in sensitive habitats.

This is a fight that needs to be dealt with and states need to develop sound management plans for wolves, but it is not the biggest threat to hunting.

 

[mtmuley]

jryoung,thanks for putting up that info. Interesting stuff. I see cascadehunter must get his information from the aforementioned barstool. mtmuley

 

[cascadehunter]

jryoung,thanks for putting up that info. Interesting stuff. I see cascadehunter must get his information from the aforementioned barstool. mtmuley

Amazing!! I talk about banding together and ALL inclusive management of all resources & you attack me like i'm an idiot. Making personal attacks of my inteligence.? What a couple of nice guys. Have a good day. No one can be as smart as you.

 

[cascadehunter]

I completely disagree, and your language is as divisive as the crap from the CBD. There are far greater threat to hunting as a whole including public land divestiture, manage wildlife social reasons as oppose to biological, landowner/outfitter tag allocation, oil/gas/mining in sensitive habitats.

This is a fight that needs to be dealt with and states need to develop sound management plans for wolves, but it is not the biggest threat to hunting.

Completely agree the states need to be allowed to make sound management plans. Where did I say they didn't? But without those plans human hunting as management will decline. So jr you & mtmuley have a nice beer together!

 

[mtmuley]

I apologize cascadehunter. I don't share your philosophy that the wolf is "a means to an end". I suppose I could have worded it differently. mtmuley

 

[jryoung]

Completely agree the states need to be allowed to make sound management plans. Where did I say they didn't? But without those plans human hunting as management will decline. So jr you & mtmuley have a nice beer together!

You said the introduction of wolves is an attempt to end hunting all together, I disagreed and noted more significant threats to hunting. To your point though about the decline in hunting when know for a fact lack of access is the number one reason people stop hunting and further hunting participation is on an uptick over the last 5 or so years due to many that would identify themselves as an "environmentalist".

I mentioned state management as a point to clarify my position that wolves should be managed by the states and that I am not against hunting or trapping them.

Hopefully that is a little clearer now.

 

[cascadehunter]

I apologize cascadehunter. I don't share your philosophy that the wolf is "a means to an end". I suppose I could have worded it differently. mtmuley

Thanks mtmuley, restored my faith that everyone opinion counts. I could be more clear too. Point was PETA, HSUSA..et al, see the wolf as I said, they have a single focus.
I don't believe they were re introduced as an 'end' hunting goal either. Reference spotted owl/logging in the west & one can see the parallel. That tactic is still being used to halt diverse management of public lands here in Oregon. The big game are suffering due to lack of open areas for feed.
Our goal as hunters true conservationists is for complete management, as jr references.
BTW hunting wolves is dang exhilerating, I want to hunt predators more, just havn't gotten out to do it. My wife already spends sept _november a widow..lol!

 

[jryoung]

The big game are suffering due to lack of open areas for feed.

I read this article yesterday and while the ideas are still very preliminary, I wonder how this idea could play out across the west? Can we expand select timber harvest, reduce fire load, create more diverse forests, and better habitat for wolves and ungulates...and bring groups that have been at loggerheads together for balanced solutions.

http://blog.nature.org/science/2015/02/23/can-cutting-trees-save-wolves/

 

[cascadehunter]

Have you or mtmuley read Carter Neidemaer book Wolfer? I may have not spelled last name right. Good book & info. That info on the archepeligo wolf is interesting, that they have a somewhat isolated population to study. Interesting they don't have game larger than deer too. As dense as forest on islands have those wolf always been there & in those numbers? Population probably spiked during logging days!