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fwagner
Guest
Exactly! Bottom line if you are acting as a mentor to child on their first hunt and you are carrying a gun as well you are a bad mentor and at that moment you are a bad parent government or no government
Basing the decision to hunt or not hunt on the physical makeup of a child is ridiculous (ie. strong enough to carry a rifle). The child's ability to comprehend what taking a life of an animal means and their ability to demonstrate weapon safety should be the litmus test.
bobbydean
Well-known member
Buckbull.
Most important comment in the thread. Complete clarity on the issue!
Most important comment in the thread. Complete clarity on the issue!
onpoint
Well-known member
I do not care for any of this "hunting" done by kids who are barely as tall as their firearm is long.
But as far as the "child's ability to comprehend what taking a life of an animal means" - that is a pretty vague thing. When I, and my peers a the time, all had to take hunter's ed before hunting - upon completion of the course we all still had no real sense of this. I really didn't until I was probably in my late 20's.
In fact, many adults my age (mid 50's) who hunt still do not.
This ethics stuff is a difficult thing. I know what I believe to be right, and know what I believe others do wrong.
But attempting to convince someone else that their idea of ethics is somehow lacking is a losing proposition - I say this from vast amounts of past experience......
I find myself hunting alone (with my dogs of course - they always think I'm right) more often than not, trying to avoid the chances of witnessing somebody else's violation of my ethics........
But as far as the "child's ability to comprehend what taking a life of an animal means" - that is a pretty vague thing. When I, and my peers a the time, all had to take hunter's ed before hunting - upon completion of the course we all still had no real sense of this. I really didn't until I was probably in my late 20's.
In fact, many adults my age (mid 50's) who hunt still do not.
This ethics stuff is a difficult thing. I know what I believe to be right, and know what I believe others do wrong.
But attempting to convince someone else that their idea of ethics is somehow lacking is a losing proposition - I say this from vast amounts of past experience......
I find myself hunting alone (with my dogs of course - they always think I'm right) more often than not, trying to avoid the chances of witnessing somebody else's violation of my ethics........
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WapitiBob
Well-known member
Pass hunters Ed and I have no problem with it. NM seems to do OK.
Gellar
Well-known member
It is obvious that there are strong feelings from those for the rule change and against the rule change with valid arguments on both sides. For any of you who are wondering, it was passed 21-12 and presented to the governor on 11/9/2017.
MJE2083
Well-known member
Here in PA they recently started a youth mentor program, basically any age kid can hunt with a mentor. The kid does not however get his own tags. Anything the kid shoots counts for the mentor's tag/limit. At age 12, and after hunters safety, a kid can get a junior license with their own tags, but they still have to hunt with direct adult supervision for a few years.
I don't see much of a problem with it, but I do sort of cringe when I've heard some of these stories of guys taking like 5 year olds.
I don't see much of a problem with it, but I do sort of cringe when I've heard some of these stories of guys taking like 5 year olds.
Topgun 30-06
Active member
Many states have similar laws on the books now and it's funny how people hate government intervention in their lives and when so many states have gone the route they have for young kids to hunt that many people are griping. All I can say is that my Dad started me when I was 5 night hunting with him and our two coon hounds. I carried the unloaded guns and started carrying a loaded one when I was about 7 while hunting for rabbits and squirrels after passing one of the first Hunters Ed courses in the country that the NRA started. That was way back in the early 50s when we used carbide lamps attached to our hats and Dad carried a big battery in a shoulder carrying case to plug the big spotlight into when the dogs treed. Ah, the good old days!
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j_burkWI
Member
I live in Wisconsin and at first glance most hunters I've spoken with so far aren't very keen on this. For the most part I think everyone's main objection is to the portion allowing the youth & mentor to both carry guns. I think that just like everything else that comes with raising a child, the parent needs to teach them safety and responsibility and use the proper discretion when allowing them a new privilege.
j_burkWI
Member
Also maxx, what exactly is so "shitty" and "ass backwards" about Wisconsin's deer hunting culture? I am genuinely curious as to whether I'm naive to it or an active participant.
I am from WI and I love the state go badgers hell of a weekend.
If the state was to give every hunter 4 doe tags to shoot a majority of the WI hunters view that as a open book to kill every deer they see there is very little self control and the over harvest of deer has put the state in a situation that you just don't see many deer. Ya the gov says its ok but there is no self control via the hunters.
Over 600k people get out in the woods and hunt the 9 day season. I am not sure the numbers but I would guess it is over 50% of them that don't think about hunting, touch a gun, or do anything to prepare for the season. Hell lot of my family is this way. (IE there is some of this going on in Iowa also but our total number of hunters is so much less so it is essentially less of a problem).
A lot of shoot first ask questions later mentality also. I have seen a lot of guys wound deer, take some bad running shots etc.
There is very little respect on the public ground. Guys will hunt right on top of you even if you were there first. I don't get this at all. If I walk in on a guy I don't want to be anywhere near him. I had a spot that I have hunted 20 out of the last 25 opening days. I got there an hour before light last year and 30 minutes into shooting a guy walked in and sat 100 yards in front of me. I am not sure where he was going to shoot but I wasn't sitting around waiting for him to shoot at me.
There is a lot more to it and some of it is good. I go back to spend time with my family and I get to enjoy Deer Camp. That is the single thing I miss the most is the BS shit talking the night after. Killing a deer anymore in WI is secondary to me. I will normally take a doe or a nice buck given the chance but the meat is giving to one of my family members.
As far as having the mentors carry a gun I would be ok getting rid of that. Like I said I have carried one with me here in Iowa but for very different reasons, none of which were for me to actually shoot one.
The age requirement removal I think is a good one. Again no one addressed the fact that 34 other states don't have age requirements. I think you guys should be arguing to add it for those 34 states instead of arguing WI is wrong for opening it up.
Topgun 30-06
Active member
maxx---A number of members, including myself, addressed the fact that 34 other states have no age restrictions and there have been very few problems because of it!
j_burkWI
Member
Maxx, thank you for your response. I agree with many of your points. I haven't hunted outside of Wisconsin so I can't say for certain, but I don't believe that I'm going out on a limb when I say that, unfortunately, a lot of these issues are all too common in a lot of places.
This always ends up being a heated topic. My thoughts, worth what you paid for them:
1) If a kid can pass hunter safety, they should be allowed to hunt. This includes a basic understanding of conservation and ethics.
2) Parental influence will dictate the likelihood of the kid breaking game laws, regardless of whether they are allowed to hunt at age 8 or age 14.
3) Based on hunting accident statistics, we should not allow males in their early to mid-20's to hunt.
1) If a kid can pass hunter safety, they should be allowed to hunt. This includes a basic understanding of conservation and ethics.
2) Parental influence will dictate the likelihood of the kid breaking game laws, regardless of whether they are allowed to hunt at age 8 or age 14.
3) Based on hunting accident statistics, we should not allow males in their early to mid-20's to hunt.
pointingdogsrule
Well-known member
like, like
Pfffft! None of my friends would dream of calling me a conservative but I sure as heck don't need the state telling me when my kid is old enough to hunt. Age is just a number. It has nothing to do with how prepared someone is to hunt. My 2 boys both killed their first deer at 8 with me by their side. They carry the gun, unloaded or uncapped. They help set up. If they're not willing to do that they don't hunt. Simple as that. I know "adults" that have less business in the woods with a gun then many 10 year olds.
airlocksniffer
Member
Don't have a problem with it per se, however, I think some form of hunter's safety should be required.
TimeOnTarget
Well-known member
A kid should learn more from their mentor out in the field than any hunters Ed will ever teach them.
That and in Iowa Hunters ed cannot be taken until you are within 6 months of being 12. I put together a class last summer for my son and all his buddies that hunt.
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