Wild-ness, does it matter, or how much does it matter?

[Jcs271]

Well my local wolf population was "planted" 20yrs ago but they are now quite habituated and more than a little challenging to hunt.

 

[elkduds]

The topic of mountain goats coincidentally came up for me a couple of days ago when a friend sent me the following message:

​

Years ago when there was a heated controversy over whether Rocky​

Mountain goats were native to Colorado, and the Rocky Mountain National Park​

Service killed them out of the Park because they weren't native animals, I​

produced some evidence that Goats were in fact native to Colorado. The​

original owner of the Mt. Princeton Ranch had killed a goat just above his​

ranch in the early 1900's. When Bierstadt first came into Estes Park area in​

the late 1800's he stated he saw goats. Course no one would believe that info-​

including the Game and Fish. I just read George Bird Grinnell's book written​

in 1913 titled HUNTING AT HIGH ALTITUDES, THE BOOK OF THE BOONE AND CROCKETT​

CLUB. On page 290 he states:​

"On the other hand there are two perfectly good records for the white goat far​

south of this region (Montana), in Colorado, as I pointed out in a paper​

published many years ago in FOREST AND STREAM. One of these was killed by John​

Willis, a former hunting part ner of Colonel Roosevelt".​

Pretty compelling evidence that there were Rocky Mountain goats here before​

the turn of the century. Thought you might find this interesting.​

So I did some digging and found the referenced paper from the June 24, 1905 issue of Forest and Stream. It's a bit difficult to read but is legible.

Sorry for the digression. I agree with the OP that there's nothing like chasing mule deer.

"Those were different times." Beyond being a fascinating reference, the article is a dramatic illustration of Neffa's view in his OP: How far from wildness humans have dragged the West, and how little time it has taken. What kind of progress is that?

Appreciate the post, Oak. History holds every lesson; sadly and chronically disregarded.

 

[Gr8bawana]

Enthusiasm is created through rewarding effort. Bird dogs, new hunters, kids, all benefit from a positive experience.

Some people don't move beyond the easy success. It takes a degree of desiring growth to challenge yourself and compete at a higher level. In life, as well as in the field.

Don't begrudge the folks picking the low hanging fruit. Some people gotta know how good the apple tastes before they buy a ladder for the ones higher up. Some peoples family already had a ladder, and some only have a step stool. Some folks built their Ladder. Let's help people build their own ladder...

I agree 100%.
Just think how much less opportunity there would be for everyone if there were only native, wild populations of game and fish to pursue.

 

[nontyp]

In the majority of our country you can take kids and new hunters out to harvest wild, native squirrels. High success rate, lots of fun, no pen raised critters required. That’s the low hanging fruit we should be introducing new hunters to in my opinion.

 

[Duck-Slayer]

Were pretty lucky here in Idaho, I believe most of the pronghorn we harvest don’t know what a row crop is, I’m assuming that the places I hunt mule deer don’t either, in general the elk I hunt hit the alfalfa fields in the winter hopefully after most of the summer lots of the excess crap has went into the soil or downstream somewhere lol..... I was born 150 years to late lol of coarse I’d probably be dead already at age 36

High country and desert mulies will always stay wild hopefully
Matt

Ps I try to hunt “wilderness” exclusively, I like that feeling of “littleness” in a wild place and trying to match wits with all that’s wild..... if that makes sense

 

[Hunting Wife]

The GMO stuff does bother me long term, but what really scares me is RoundUp short term.

It doesn’t end at Roundup.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-40994-9

Samples of liver and spleen organs were collected from white-tailed deer brought to the NDGF Wildlife Health Laboratory for a variety of reasons (e.g., illegal harvest investigations, disease, deer-vehicle collisions) from 2009–2017 throughout North Dakota.; imidacloprid concentrations were evaluated in 367 samples using the same ELISA methods as in our captive experiment. Results indicated that levels of imidacloprid in liver samples were 2.8 times higher in free-ranging deer in North Dakota [average 1.32 (0.10)] than in livers of our captive deer [average 0.46 (0.03)], Table 6. Furthermore, concentrations of imidacloprid in spleen samples from free-ranging deer in North Dakota [0.60 (0.06)] were 3.5 times higher than those in spleens of captive deer [0.17 (0.02), Table 6] in our experiment. Deer exposure to imidacloprid averaged 52.3 ± 4.6% over the years 2009 to 2017. For those free-ranging deer in North Dakota exposed to imidacloprid, average concentrations in spleens increased (r = 0.22, p = 0.002) an average of 0.11 ng/g per year from 2009 to 2017. Furthermore, 77.5% of these deer had imidacloprid levels in spleens equal to or above 0.33 ng/g (i.e., mean level of imidacloprid in spleens of fawns in captivity that died in our experiment). These results indicate that wild populations of deer exposed to imidacloprid are potentially experiencing effects similar to those seen in our captive facility experiment; i.e., reduced activity in adult females and fawns, and specifically in fawns, decreased survival, size, and health. Consequently, additional research is needed to confirm these relationships in free-ranging deer in agricultural landscapes where imidacloprid and other neonicotinoid insecticides are utilized.

Is it bad when wild deer are almost 4 times more contaminated than the captive ones you were forcing to drink insecticides?

 

[Irrelevant]

It doesn’t end at Roundup.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-40994-9



Is it bad when wild deer are almost 4 times more contaminated than the captive ones you were forcing to drink insecticides?

And to think some people think we're done making monumental F-ups as a population.

 

[Oak]

Never understood why some people eat the filter.

 

[Pucky Freak]

It all exists on a spectrum of how wild the habitat is and how "natural" the game is. Do I get less enjoyment out of fishing a glacial lake that was stocked by native Americans 4000 years ago? No. But if the animal was raised in a pen or a tank, then released that year, and can't reproduce in the wild, I'll pass.

 

[2rocky]

Neffa I appreciate that you like to pursue your game in a more wild fashion, as do I. I hope for our sake there will always be wild roadless places we can do that. The thing is we have an infrastructure of equipment suppliers, and service providers that relies on enough people doing what we like to do (hunt) to support their business. If that means some yokel in the Rocky mountain front wants to road hunt the national forest while obeying all the laws and spends his money, then i have access to what I need, and he isn't forced to come up into my drainage and set up camp by the elk wallow and screw up my hunt.

 

[88man]

And to think some people think we're done making monumental F-ups as a population.

Nope we will continue to sin. Humans the problem and solution creators.

 

[88man]

Gotta go way north to get away from it all. Can't use airplanes either or your part of the problem. The search for the perfect utopia will leave you never satisfied where you stop or start.

 

[GASoline71]

Being on the west side of Washington State, the pheasant release sites are even worse. When you buy your license, you pick "odd or even", and can only hunt the sites on odd or even days. The birds look like hen pecked Foster Farms rejects. I haven't pheasant hunted in 20+ years.

Gary

 

[Irrelevant]

Being on the west side of Washington State, the pheasant release sites are even worse. When you buy your license, you pick "odd or even", and can only hunt the sites on odd or even days. The birds look like hen pecked Foster Farms rejects. I haven't pheasant hunted in 20+ years.

Gary

It's the exact same birds. But side note, the only place I've ever been shot was at the Scatter Creek release site over there at least a decade ago. It was a war zone.

 

[Deleted member 18333]

Am I the only one that see's the irony in folks being unhappy hunting pen-raised, artificially planted, non-native pheasants that are meant to bolster faltering populations of earlier pen-raised, non-native, artificially planted pheasants?

 

[Irrelevant]

Am I the only one that see's the irony in folks being unhappy hunting pen-raised, artificially planted, non-native pheasants that are meant to bolster faltering populations of earlier pen-raised, non-native, artificially planted pheasants?

No. I'm trying to sort that out.

 

[Gerald Martin]

Am I the only one that see's the irony in folks being unhappy hunting pen-raised, artificially planted, non-native pheasants that are meant to bolster faltering populations of earlier pen-raised, non-native, artificially planted pheasants?
It’s the aesthetic appeal of survival of the fittest allowing them to procreate and multiply before we shoot them.

 

[marshman]

I like to use "hooch coochy" as a tempurature unit of measure. My wife does not approve.

I do get enjoyment in a different way when I catch a native cutt rather than a rainbow or brookie.
I absolutely love chasing elk "not native to NV."
Mule deer have an almost mystical allure to them, I dont know if it's because of their "wild-Ness" or just because as far back as I can remember, I've been hunting deer.
I like to keep my pronghorn hunting away from civilization, although you're never far from some kind of stock tank here.

I think wild-ness comes more from where you find it rather than how it got there.

P.s. stocked rainbows taste like monkey butt.

Yep, muddy monkey butt!

 

[GASoline71]

It's the exact same birds. But side note, the only place I've ever been shot was at the Scatter Creek release site over there at least a decade ago. It was a war zone.

I live on Whidbey Island, about 3 miles from one of the release sites. Drive by it every single day, at least twice. There will be 30 rigs parked there, and a sea of orange vests out there... and about 80% of the birds are across the road on the neighbors private property. You'll see at least 20 birds a day on the private property when you drive by... lol