Wild horses/BLM land

[Panda Bear]

We have some wild ones, but not as many as you folks do.

Horse meat is sold in a few markets as well as served in a few restaurants. The largest market is exporting.

When visiting the Calgary Stampede it is obvious that some view their horses the same way we view our dogs--they love them.

 

[ShootsManyBullets]

This national ammo shortage is going to be really good for the pony population

 

[Europe]

Update: We have been told that there is no interest in even discussing the problem until after the election.

But that, there are some who believe that the one time thinning of the herd could be sold as --providing low cost meat to low income families while helping other wildlife to prosper, by saving BLM land. And/or a one time sale of the horses to either Canada or Mexico and let 100% of the proceeds go toward helping low income families . Discontinue the 1000 dollar give away per adoption and maintain herd size moving forward via a sterilization program. ( mares-not stallions ). Maintain an adoption program but dont give any money away with the adoption of the horse.

Zero interest on having a "hunting season" on them after the reduction, instead of a sterilization program.

Just for "laughs" and/or "irritation" . During these conversations one fellow (in government), wanted to know why anything needed to be done. He said when he drove through Kansas recently he saw fields and fields of grass ? He is from New York City, so maybe we could put a few excess ponies in central park (-: I am told he was a very pleasant fellow, but just didn't/dosent understand the problem, never been to any western states, never seen a wild horse herd, etc etc. My point is sometimes we are not dealing with bad or dumb people, but people who should not be in the jobs they are in. but I digress

Appreciate every ones input, thank you

 

[antelopedundee]

"Cut 'em all Jack!!"

Wife's grandparents lived in rural western Wisconsin and were known to serve horse meat to their unsuspecting guests (who apparently loved it). They also hid gold and silver in milk jugs under the chicken coop.

Porterhorse steak?

 

[Zach]

Wasn't Jack in the Box accused of using horsemeat back in the 70's/80's, just saying.

As I horse person and hunter I'm torn. I do think the management of these feral horses needs to be upped, but getting that passed is steeper than The Incline at Manitou Springs. High level thoughts would be that the equine world needs to be engaged, they need to have some skin in the game, monetarily if not more. All the QH orgs should be donating in some form or fashion.

I've tried coyote, so horse isn't out of the question, just not one of my own.

 

[antelopedundee]

Wasn't Jack in the Box accused of using horsemeat back in the 70's/80's, just saying.

As I horse person and hunter I'm torn. I do think the management of these feral horses needs to be upped, but getting that passed is steeper than The Incline at Manitou Springs. High level thoughts would be that the equine world needs to be engaged, they need to have some skin in the game, monetarily if not more. All the QH orgs should be donating in some form or fashion.

I've tried coyote, so horse isn't out of the question, just not one of my own.

Do you have a copy of the Vietnamese cookbook "50 Ways To Wok Your Dog"?

 

[Durango Mike]

This. For whatever reason, the horse lovers are very effective at getting their way and for whatever reason the majority of people judge an animal's suitability for the dinner table based on perceived intelligence, which is high for horses.

All emotions aside though, the first step that would need to happen for effective management is for there to be a decision among the scientific community as to whether they really are "feral" or if they are a native species that was extirpated and then re-introduced by Europeans. There are potentially legitimate arguments that the horses have a right to be out there, in which case they should be managed like any other native species with a hunting season if appropriate. But if deemed a feral species, then should also be treated as such with open seasons and eradication efforts.

Science will not prevail on this one, in my opinion, the emotional ones will continue to control the management.

The horse or whatever was the north american equine disappeared 20,000 years ago, the indians of the west were on foot until the conquistadors appeared bringing horses with them. I raise horses and would be considered an avid horseman, but I get equally passionate about the "wild horse" folks because they are dealing with FERAL livestock as if Noah delivered them from the Ark. We had spanish barbs for many years (think high class mustang) that we had a top geneticist trace back to their origins in North Africa. What is interesting is that the Nature Conservancy was given the 18,000 acre ranch where the herd was and REQUIRED that non native species that were destructive be removed, the horses were rounded up and taken off. We were able to arrange 100% adoption because of the history of the Wilbur Cruce ranch and the number of younger animals, not possible today with the quantity of BLM animals. I will probably get flamed for this post, but horses spending their lives in BLM pens are better off being dead.

 

[MarvB]

Had them all over our district when I was with the USFS in Gold Beach, they were definitely a pain in the ass (no burro pun intended). Most were ratty looking inbred swaybacks, Roman nosed and all head and no brain... they made for some excellent coyote shooting if you found a carcass though!

 

[Irrelevant]

The Wildlife Society calls to reduce wild horse and burro populations - The Wildlife Society

The Wildlife Society submitted written and oral testimony to the National Wild Horse and Burro Advisory Board, calling on the Bureau of Land Management to reduce wild horse and burro...

wildlife.org

 

[tzone]

I have been charged twice.

How did the steaks taste?

 

[belshawelk]

How did the steaks taste?

it was damn close to that. I had a tree nearby to hide behind, but rifle was up and ready to go. If no tree I would have shot him. I just have a hard time shooting anything I am not really interested in eating, but an exception is always in the back up plan.

Funny thing is there is a guy that lives up on the mountain and he does eat them. His comment to me "they eat the same thing as deer and elk. They eat them all over the world so why don't we?" For me because I can eat elk.

 

[rwc101]

There were tons of wild horses on my pronghorn hunt. I do want me a burro as a pack animal, though.

 

[Gumbo Hunter]

If I were king I'd kill 'em all! They, along with cats, hogs, and almost all other introduced/feral species shouldn't be allowed to exist. Many native species are having a hard enough time without the competition from non-natives. I'll make an exception for pheasants, they seem pretty innocuous.

 

[Durango Mike]

The horse crowd was wildly successful at closing down the horse slaughterhouses in the US and they've been vocal in their attempts to ban the exportation of horses for slaughter as well.

I've gone rounds with a close friend of my mother on this. She and her cohort believe in their hearts that there is no acceptable reason for any horse to be killed (short of euthanasia due to injury). On one hand they argue that feral horses are the reintroduced descendants of American wild horses (which to my biology training seems absurd), and on the other hand they argue that as long as cattle are on the landscape impacting ecosystems then horses deserve a spot. I've never been able to come to any middle ground with that crowd.

Until we have some brave legislators willing to stick their necks out to address the wild horse and burro act we'll be forced to follow Bob Barkers advice and stay and neuter those feral pets.

Unfortunately there appears to be no middle ground, I am a devoted horseman and have my own remuda, but very pro humane slaughter options. There is NO science that even suggests that wild horses (critters that resemble today's equines) were ever populating the west prior to the introduction from Europe and especially North Africa (another piece of equine history). What people see today as a horse is the result of extensive selective breeding with heavy human involvement. The closest thing that there has been trace fossil evidence for was a critter that looked vaguely horse like that was food for Sabre Tooth tigers and were gone from the scene 20,000 years ago. I have had the same discussion with horse friends and most are split 50-50 on slaughter and gathering issues. Locally we have feral horses destroying a national park and Indian burial sites and the debate on gathering them has been going on for 5 years with no resolution in sight. We are talking about 50-70 horses and generally full agreement by both sides that they do not belong where they are. I have seen where horses are being "warehoused" by the BLM and they would be better off dead. Most people do not understand the process that exists today where horses are sold at auction as "riding mounts" to qualify for export to Mexico and Canada for subsequent slaughter. Thankfully I have never been to a Mexican slaughter facility, but I have seen the inhumane shipping conditions the horses are subjected too. Kill pen prices are $500-600 a head, It could be far more humane and economically viable with a domestic slaughter facility that was supervised to guarantee humane conditions. I have been disgusted by the hypocrisy from so called horse lovers who do not step up to the reality of the problem and instead pretend that living like zombies in BLM pens is a better outcome than humane slaughter. The political will is unlikely to ever be there as it seems to be a "single issue" voter that is bi-partisan. Considering the heavy influence by urban/suburban voters who will never own a horse or even see a feral horse and the destruction of habitat in the drought stricken west it is unlikely to change.

 

[Irrelevant]

There were tons of wild horses on my pronghorn hunt. I do want me a burro as a pack animal, though.

you and me both homey.

 

[davinski]

In case it wasn't posted before, Rinella did a good podcast on feral horses:

Ep. 126: Wild Horses | MeatEater Podcasts

Tempe, AZ- Steven Rinella talks with Wild Horse and Burro Coordinator Dr. Tolani Francisco, along with wildlife ecologist Dr. Karl Malcolm, and Janis Putelis of the MeatEater crew.Subjects discussed: kids and the fundamentals of bow shooting; the Pueblo Revolt; the brief and glorious lifespan of...

www.themeateater.com

The Navajo Nation tried a hunt but cancelled it after all the teeth-gnashing and garment-renting:

Navajo Nation cancels plans for wild horse hunt

The Navajo Nation Division of Natural Resources rescinded a proclamation declaring the 2018 feral horse management hunt.

www.daily-times.com

Unless people are starving in great numbers, I don't think the idea of hunting them will ever fly. Personally, I agree with many others and consider them feral and very problematic for the landscape but the Wild Horse and Burro act really tied land managers' hands.

 

[slamdmini]

i think horses like all other animals need to be properly managed. if people want to eat them, so be it. i would be willing to try it but i honestly dont kno if i would like it. im not a horse person at all, but theres just a mental block there and im not sure i could get past it

 

[peterk1234]

Basically elk without antlers. All kidding aside, it is just like any other animal. If the population gets out of check it needs to be controlled. Ort intrusion (people) are what throws things out of balance, therefore we have a responsibility to manage it properly. I would eat horse meat in a second.

I guess the other option is to introduce more wolves into the picture. Not sure that one would go over too well with ranchers and hunters though

 

[RobertD]

Bumping this instead of starting my own thread.

I am interested in learning more about these BLM "holding pens" and what that situation entails. I think shining a light on the fact that our current management practices (or lack thereof) makes more horses suffer than the humane killing of excess horses has got to be the only thing that can move the needle of horse opinions towards doing something about it.

On my NM mule deer hunt a few years ago we saw several different feral horses. There was a larger, lone stallion we elected to avoid and a few small mare/foal groups hanging around too. I didn't mind seeing them out and about and frankly, though I don't buy the "native" argument, I wouldn't mind knowing some exist if they could just be managed in return.

I'm going to re-listen to the ME episode about feral horses and do a little bit more research.

 

[Europe]

Bumping this instead of starting my own thread.

I am interested in learning more about these BLM "holding pens" and what that situation entails. I think shining a light on the fact that our current management practices (or lack thereof) makes more horses suffer than the humane killing of excess horses has got to be the only thing that can move the needle of horse opinions towards doing something about it.

On my NM mule deer hunt a few years ago we saw several different feral horses. There was a larger, lone stallion we elected to avoid and a few small mare/foal groups hanging around too. I didn't mind seeing them out and about and frankly, though I don't buy the "native" argument, I wouldn't mind knowing some exist if they could just be managed in return.

I'm going to re-listen to the ME episode about feral horses and do a little bit more research.

I received a note asking me to respond to your post sir. I am unable to type for long but will give you a bit of information, albeit, limited.

The argument about them being "native" continues to rage on and in my humble opinion the answer is yes, no , maybe. Supposedly they were here first and then spread to Europe but were wiped out during the Ice age. Then the reverse happened. The Spanish brought them to N.A.

The "pens" are full and the adoption program is still in effect, but does not come anywhere close to solving the problem, BLM has had to lease long term pasture for them and a lot, supposedly 2/3rds of their budget is used taking care of them.

The Salt River project in Arizona seems to be working fairly well and for the most part more folks like it than not, but there are dissenters. I have not kept up to date on the specific situation regarding the wild horses in other states.

My personal view is they need to be controlled or they are going to endanger or further endanger deer, elk and antelope herds throughout the western U.S.