Why is it so complicated?

[81hntn]

I have been reading through some of the recent posts about the Wyoming elk draw and I just don't understand why the states have gone to such a complicated draw system. I've seen several post their hestitance for western hunting due to the jacked up systems and I'm starting to agree. I thought I had a good grasp on Wyoming but I guess I was wrong after watching the video about draw odds that Randy posted. I guess I'm just frustrated and confused about the western draw systems and really just don't understand what the states have to gain???

 

[publichunter1]

Its pretty clear what Wyoming is about, money and keeping the residents happy. You have to have a guide to access any wilderness so its all about money there. Even though they are one of the cheaper states for tags as of right now they are steadily increasing just like Colorado. Then they decided they still weren't making enough money so lets take 40% of the nonresidents tags and double the price even though this still might not increase the odds of drawing in some cases.

They want to keep the people that votes for them happy and make as much money as possible off anyone else. I'm in Colorado for the year and everyone is fussing because they are talking about doubling the resident license cost ($46 this year). This would increase their profits greatly but instead they on average raise the non resident $20/year ($641 this year) without a second thought.

I understand all of the cuts in federal funding and the need to generate more revenue but a increase in resident license is definitely a need throughout most of the west.

Not hating against the residents out here as they are mostly great guys. I just hate that I'm just now getting to hunt out this way and if it keeps going higher I won't be doing it much longer.

 

[npaden]

Money. That's what it is about and that's what they have to gain.

The demand is out there. The supply is limited.

By coming up with "schemes" like the "special" draw and preference points they really maximize the revenue from nonresidents. That's what makes up most western wildlife agencies budgets.

Do the math sometime on how many preference points are out there and multiply that by the cost of each point whether it be like Wyoming where they charge for each point or like Arizona and Nevada where they make you buy an expensive license to be able to build your points. It's several million dollars for each state. Most are bringing in several million dollars every year in preference points across all species.

 

[8andcounting]

Yeh the other states are starting to get as crazy on prices as Montana . Soon hunting out of state will no longer be a option for many average joes . And as for Randy's $1,000 elk hunt , kind of hard when a Montana NR elk tag is 900$ and the combo is over a grand

 

[HighDesertSage]

So we are all in agreement then: we want readily available, more efficient, less complicated access to quality western hunting opportunities, and we want to pay less for it...got it

 

[Topgun 30-06]

What a bunch of whiners! Wyoming has one of the easiest draw systems of any western state with NRs getting at least 16% of the elk tags and 20% or better of the deer and antelope tags. 75% of the NR tags go into the PP drawing and 25% to the Random draw. 60% of those tags then go into the PP Draw at the Regular price and 40% to the higher Special price, so it's pretty simple if you just read how they do it on their website. Wyoming also hasn't raised their license fees since 2008! If you want to do anything today whether it's eat out, play golf, hunt, etc., it costs money. If a guy plays one round of golf a week during the warm months you'll have more money wrapped up in fees and cart costs than any western hunting license other than probably the Special elk fee in Wyoming and the combo elk/deer license in Montana. Get over it and either pay to play or take up knitting!

 

[publichunter1]

Topgun, never meant it as whining although it probably was a little bit. I mentioned that Wyoming is still one of the cheapest options and I'm ok paying what it is right now. However, I hear more complaining out here about an increase in resident tags from 40 something to a max of 90 something than I do the increase of at least $20 a year from the NR(and yes i'm referring to CO). That kind of increase per year will eventually outgrow my check book. The system itself is easy to figure out. Its just hard scrounging the money together to come hunt the suckers. Not too many roaming the hills in Mississippi.

And by the way I don't golf. To busy saving for elk tags. Must be nice having that resident tag. Haha.

I'll hunt them as long as the good Lord and the pocket book allows.

 

[LCH]

I have a BIL that says he can't justify the cost of a nonresident hunting license. He just bought a new F150 though.

I have coworkers who say they can't afford to go out west and hunt, but they have $600 cell phones and smoke hundreds of dollars worth of cigarettes each month.

My wife's family think my hunting trips are too expensive (basically tags + fuel), but think nothing of dropping several grand on a beach vacation.


I stopped pointing these things out to people long ago. Sure, high prices make it difficult for some folks who genuinely want to go, but they also weed out people who were never serious about it in the first place.

 

[hank4elk]

Some good posts here.
I hear the I can't afford it from too many guys w/60k pu trucks & a gizmo growing out their ear....
I do think NM res. tags should go up & the NR tags go to 10-20% w/no outfitter pool.
I found time & $ to go for years even with a relationship going,and I got the bonus of scouting while she went to visit weavers,etc...
I have a brother who hunts & fishes.Has a whole rental house for his decoys,bows,guns,rods,reloading,backpacking,bikes,kayaks & gear in general. Big truck & a boat or 2. Whines every year about the cost of tags & hunts,comes to NM to visit SIL ,has never even called to ask if I want to get together when he is here,never been to my ranch,and I get the post draw blues story every year hinting at getting a LO elk tag from me....lol Yeah right. If I have an extra one this year I will give it to someone else.
I have priorities.

 

[2ski]

Budget money has to come from somewhere. So let's see. Western states making a ton of money from NR fees. So lets drop the fees and make up those budget shortfalls from the residents through fee increases. Sure. That'll happen sometime soon.

 

[Flatland Crusoe]

I have a BIL that says he can't justify the cost of a nonresident hunting license. He just bought a new F150 though.

I have coworkers who say they can't afford to go out west and hunt, but they have $600 cell phones and smoke hundreds of dollars worth of cigarettes each month.

My wife's family think my hunting trips are too expensive (basically tags + fuel), but think nothing of dropping several grand on a beach vacation.


I stopped pointing these things out to people long ago. Sure, high prices make it difficult for some folks who genuinely want to go, but they also weed out people who were never serious about it in the first place.

This 100%.

People have priorities regardless of what they want to pursue. I know plenty of people who at least for a couple of years have been ____(insert any recreational activity) bums almost full time by living a very minimal lifestyle. I know people who managed to take leaves of absences from 6 figure jobs to thru hike the Appalachian trail. The point is there are people who find ways to do what they are passionate about and those that are happy enough not to change.

Western hunting is not an activity whose cost is out of line with most middle class recreation activity costs if you are doing it DIY. According to the NSSF there are 10 million hunters pursuing whitetails and only 300,000 pursuing all other big game animals in North America. That tells me right there that by default western big game hunters are a tiny minority of the hunters in this country and even more so those who travel out of state to do so might only represent a few percent of people hunting in the US. I'd guess the percent of guys who do it nearly annually is even lower as a lot of guys tag along with more experienced hunters.

While western hunting is within the means of a lot of people its not something a lot chose to do.

 

[Flatrock]

I have a BIL that says he can't justify the cost of a nonresident hunting license. He just bought a new F150 though.

I have coworkers who say they can't afford to go out west and hunt, but they have $600 cell phones and smoke hundreds of dollars worth of cigarettes each month.

My wife's family think my hunting trips are too expensive (basically tags + fuel), but think nothing of dropping several grand on a beach vacation.


I stopped pointing these things out to people long ago. Sure, high prices make it difficult for some folks who genuinely want to go, but they also weed out people who were never serious about it in the first place.

Nailed it. As did ishootdasmallones.

It takes awhile to figure out all the draw systems but it isn't that bad and once you learn them, you're good to go. People just like to complain.

 

[noharleyyet]

Money. That's what it is about and that's what they have to gain.

The demand is out there. The supply is limited.

By coming up with "schemes" like the "special" draw and preference points they really maximize the revenue from nonresidents. That's what makes up most western wildlife agencies budgets.

Do the math sometime on how many preference points are out there and multiply that by the cost of each point whether it be like Wyoming where they charge for each point or like Arizona and Nevada where they make you buy an expensive license to be able to build your points. It's several million dollars for each state. Most are bringing in several million dollars every year in preference points across all species.

Yep...and the price of your truck doesn't have a thing to do with having a valid, aka, whiney, opinion.

 

[publichunter1]

Y'all are making some good points on a lot of guys but don't forget that there are a few of us that do save everything available and don't smoke, golf , go on beach vacations, have a high dollar truck, or blow money on other things. I barely have enough money to make it half the time. I can promise the years I can't afford it I will still come out to scout and explore. However bills and family are always the priority. I won't ever hurt my family to do this no matter how much I love it.

And I'm not even mentioning lowering the NR tag. Just increasing the Res tags at the same rate. When they increase NR $20, increase Res $20. That will put a lot more money in the pot. As most residents say, "You have to pay to play. "

 

[bigdonniebrasco]

I have a BIL that says he can't justify the cost of a nonresident hunting license. He just bought a new F150 though.

I have coworkers who say they can't afford to go out west and hunt, but they have $600 cell phones and smoke hundreds of dollars worth of cigarettes each month.

My wife's family think my hunting trips are too expensive (basically tags + fuel), but think nothing of dropping several grand on a beach vacation.


I stopped pointing these things out to people long ago. Sure, high prices make it difficult for some folks who genuinely want to go, but they also weed out people who were never serious about it in the first place.

Some good posts here.
I hear the I can't afford it from too many guys w/60k pu trucks & a gizmo growing out their ear....
I do think NM res. tags should go up & the NR tags go to 10-20% w/no outfitter pool.
I found time & $ to go for years even with a relationship going,and I got the bonus of scouting while she went to visit weavers,etc...
I have a brother who hunts & fishes.Has a whole rental house for his decoys,bows,guns,rods,reloading,backpacking,bikes,kayaks & gear in general. Big truck & a boat or 2. Whines every year about the cost of tags & hunts,comes to NM to visit SIL ,has never even called to ask if I want to get together when he is here,never been to my ranch,and I get the post draw blues story every year hinting at getting a LO elk tag from me....lol Yeah right. If I have an extra one this year I will give it to someone else.
I have priorities.

Last year was my first Western hunt (Pronghorn) and it was something that I decided that I REALLY wanted to do before I died! So last spring:

I SOLD my F150, and paid cash for a cheap old 4runner.
I BORROWED, an old .270 from a neighbor.
I STOPPED drinking beer.
Started taking my lunch every day!
Made all my meals for the trip.
Got in shape for a SOLO, backpack hunt.

I had one of the most amazing experiences of my life, because I made it a priority. I'm not saying it's CHEAP, but as a society we are a bunch of self-entitled, spoiled brats! Most people now days will SAY they want something, but aren't willing to make sacrifices for it....MOST (NOT US HUNT TALKERS)

* Hank... I'll drive to NM, mow your grass, clean your house, and process your game, for a chance to shoot ANYTHING!

Just my 0.02

Don

 

[bigdonniebrasco]

Hey my friend... If you are East of Kansas, swing by here, and hop in the truck, I'd be happy to split the cost if that helps! Or if you're on the way, I could grab you as I head West!

Don

Y'all are making some good points on a lot of guys but don't forget that there are a few of us that do save everything available and don't smoke, golf , go on beach vacations, have a high dollar truck, or blow money on other things. I barely have enough money to make it half the time. I can promise the years I can't afford it I will still come out to scout and explore. However bills and family are always the priority. I won't ever hurt my family to do this no matter how much I love it.

And I'm not even mentioning lowering the NR tag. Just increasing the Res tags at the same rate. When they increase NR $20, increase Res $20. That will put a lot more money in the pot. As most residents say, "You have to pay to play. "

 

[hank4elk]

The elk mow my lawn Don.
But PM me & we'll see what we can do. A Kansas deer would be a good addition to the memories & I could stop by my sis in Longmont,CO. lol
I do know Randy would like to get some more HTers on film here so maybe next year a couple guys can put their heads together. Still time before deadline this yr.
I have worked my ass off for what I have and appreciate it. I am by no means as well off as I was 10 yrs ago working. Working most every holiday & all summer long to get a week to hunt just near home for yrs. That turned into the usual 2 deer tags filled. And later a cabin in the Sierras'.
Never taking anytime off building for 20 yrs .I went to BC hunting & fishing for 4 mos after that.
In between I slipped up to MT twice and hunted elk & deer over the counter cheap. Pulled tags for deer a few times in UT .
And four vacations with the lady turned into 8 yrs of drawn tags in NM for elk & deer,which brings me here.

I just gave up the trips to Europe,weekends with family&friends and new vehicles ever. I still have a friendship tho different with the lady too.

 

[publichunter1]

Don,

I might have to take you up on that and yes I am East of you over here in MS. I could use a good hunting partner out west as a good one is hard to find.

I'm pretty much limited to one trip out West a year but plan on hunting something (elk, mule deer, or pronghorn) every year the good Lord lets me. I fell like I'm catching on quick to this western thing and am always looking for those hunts that takes enough effort to scare most away and gives me somewhat of an advantage. Took my first mule deer this past season and come close on archery elk but no cigar. I've been lucky enough to get resident tags for this year (and probably only time) in Colorado so I'm planning on having a bull and cow elk tag and deer tag this year, probably third season.

We might have to team up sometime.

 

[publichunter1]

hank4elk

That is definitely an amazing view and sounds like you definitely earned it. You ever need any help up that way on the wildlife side give me a shout. Until then God bless and happy hunting.

 

[bigdonniebrasco]

I have never even been on an hunt for Muley, or elk. Hell I would be happy just going along as a "SHERPA" to help out, and enjoy the experience!! I can hike, butcher and pack!