Why did my new muzzy fail to fire?

[harleymc]

I am a true greenhorn when it comes to muzzleloaders, and I just returned from my first weekend hunt. After two days of hunting I tried to fire the gun to clear it, and 4 musket caps later it still didn't go bang. What did I do wrong?

I have a Traditions Vortek NW edition with exposed nipple (I live in WA). I am using two 50 grain pellets of Pyrodex, CCI Four Wing Musket Caps, and T/C 245 grain sabots.

At the range Friday I cleaned the gun pretty good after getting zeroed, then fired one more shot to leave the gun 'fouled' before the hunt. That night I drove into the mountains with the gun in a soft case under the truck canopy, and it rained off and on all night. Saturday morning no more rain, so I loaded it up and went hunting. I put tape over the muzzle to prevent moisture from getting in the barrel, and basically hiked around all day. The opening to the nipple I did not cover due to legal requirements of WA (it must be exposed to the elements). I did get into the brush which was still moist from the rain, but nothing substantial, and I really don't think any obvious moisture got into the nipple/breech plug area.

Saturday night there was no rain, but since I was camped away from the truck I brought the gun inside the tent with me just in case. Hunted Sunday morning then started for home about noon. Before leaving I went to an area far from other hunters and tried to fire the gun into a tree stump. The musket cap snapped, but the gun did not fire. I tried this 3 more times with the same result.

Now that I'm home I pulled the nipple out and it is clear of anything. I haven't pulled the breech plug yet pending any suggestions I receive here. My guess is the that the powder got damp, but how? Should I put in a fresh charge each day of hunting? I guess that would entail pulling the breech plug after each day and pushing out the charge with the rod. And perhaps run a couple dry patches down in the morning before loading up?

I'd appreciate any insight. This was just a spike-only hunt with no opportunities, but when I finally draw that big bull tag I don't want to have the bull of my dreams out front only to have the gun not go off! Maybe that means I have to apply for archery or modern firearm instead.

Harley

 

[tarheel]

Difficult to tell what might have been the culprit, but to get it out you might pull the nipple and work as much loose powder as possible down the touch hole, re-nipple, cap it and fire unless pulling the plug is easier. I've had to do that a time or two in years past with cap and ball guns.

 

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

pellets are best used with 209 primers, read the instructions on the box, it will state to use 209 primers only.

Moisture and pellets is asking for trouble. Moisture also likes to work its way into the nipple end and deaden the nearest the pellet.

I certainly would get a can of loose powder ( pyrodex - T7 ) and you'll be better off.

 

[sbhooper]

I HATE Pyrodex! The only mis-fires that I ever had with a muzzle loader, were Pyrodex. On top of that, it is almost as corrosive as black powder. I would bet that those pellets absorbed some moisture. Pyrodex is hard to ignite anyway.

Switch the nipple to 209 primers and go to a different, non-corrosive powder. I like Alliant Black MZ, but there are other good ones, too, such as 777, Blackhorn 209 etc.

 

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

If you think pyrodex is hard to ignite, I suggest you try triple 7 and you'll find out how nice that pyrodex pellets with real black powder igniters at the end, really is compared to T7 pellets. Blackhorn209 is by far impossible to use with #11 or musket caps.

 

[Paul in Idaho]

You said you took the gun into your tent one night. Was the tent heated? Moving the loaded gun between warm and cold can cause condensation and ruin the powder.

 

[harleymc]

Thanks for the feedback guys. In WA we are not allowed to use 209 primers, they are illegal. 777 you need to use a 209, so that is out. So it sounds like my next option is to try loose powder instead of pellets? In my research I also saw where a guy put a little loose powder in first and then stacked the pellets on top of that in order to help ignite. Would that also be a better approach?

 

[harleymc]

OK, well I warned you I was a greenhorn. I have been loading the pellets with the igniter on the wrong side. I was told there was 'shiny' side, and another guy shooting a muzzleloader at the range told me it was probably the flat side because that looked shinier. But he was from a different state and shooting 209 primers. Anyway, it was still enough to go off at the range, but not enough for the field with maybe a little moisture absorbed due to the humid air after all the rain. Putting the igniter side toward the musket cap will have to help. I'm still a little worried about when I finally draw a tag with my 15+ years of preference points and then have to hope that my gun doesn't misfire. But I should put a lot more rounds through it before then so I should be able to get the system dialed in better.

 

[sbhooper]

Thanks for the feedback guys. In WA we are not allowed to use 209 primers, they are illegal. 777 you need to use a 209, so that is out. So it sounds like my next option is to try loose powder instead of pellets? In my research I also saw where a guy put a little loose powder in first and then stacked the pellets on top of that in order to help ignite. Would that also be a better approach?

I shot loose 777 with musket caps for several years and never had anything but good results. Alliant Black MZ ignites fine with musket caps, also. 777 pellets are difficult to ignite. I also found that they get inconsistent when they get old.

 

[6speed]

I can't hunt with pellets so I've never tried them but 110 grains of loose 777 shoots great out of my Traditions inline with musket caps.

 

[JColony]

Hey Harleymc, as an ex-WA muzzy hunter, I can relate to your restrictions. From what you're saying, my guess is your main culprit is moisture. A few things I learned over the years (some the hard way) never leave your gun in its case, mine NEVER stayed in its case longer than it took for me to travel from point A to B. Those things are just giant sponges and will hold moisture even when you think there is none. As far as fowling the barrel goes, I always just pop a cap before I load it which has seemed to work just fine for me. As for protecting the nipple, I've never had any issues with that, if its bad, I just carry it with the breach facing down. With the musket caps, you might try loose powder, I started with the pellets and honestly never had any issues, but still switched to the loose stuff and have had no issues. I just liked to be able to fine tune my charge a little more. It was amazing how much better it shot with 90gr of loose over 100gr of pellets.

I can say this, once I went muzzy there was no going back. In my opinion, the early muzzy elk season is the best in Washington. I've hunted both the archery and muzzy seasons and have found the rutting activity to be much better that first week in Oct.

 

[harleymc]

Just an update for everyone. I went back to the range a week later and popped the exact same pellets down the barrel, only this time facing the right direction. Went off like a charm. Granted, they had been indoors for 5 days since the hunt, so maybe they dried out a bit too. But obviously they put an ignition side on there for a reason. Still, I think I'm going to start looking at loose powder for the future.

JColony - thanks for the WA information. In the last couple years they moved the bow season back a week from the 10th - 22nd, which has helped quite a bit. But there is still plenty of rutting activity that first week of Oct, and it's nice to be able to reach out about twice as far with a muzzy when you finally burn through 15+ years of points! I just keep imagining the bull of my dreams at 75 yards and me with a bow in my hand...

 

[Muskeez]

Good to hear that you got it going again. I totally agree with the poster above that mentioned the change in temp of the gun in your tent. I have had that happen many times here in the MW where our ML season is in Dec./Jan. If a gun is brought into a warmish garage or pickup cab after a cold hunt it will build up condensation in the barrel and dampen the powder. Since then once a gun is loaded we always keep it in the back of the truck and at the same temps. Never have had a problem doing it that way.