Which caliber to get

[AmericanLongrifle]

Apparently the sarcasm was lost on you.

Lol. Gotta love the internet and how things are portrayed. I knew you were being sarcastic.....as was I.

 

[EastTNHunter]

If I bought a 45/70 it would be an 1895. Find the bolt action rifle that fits you best. I really like Tikkas, and Weatherbys don’t fit me, Savages shoot well but are not very smooth and often are hard to match up aftermarket parts to, Bergaras provide great quality and value, and Howa is always good (their stock profiles fit me better than the Weatherbys, although they are very similar in most other ways due to being manufactured by the same company). 308 or 7-08 are great calibers, but I really love the 30-06

 

[AmericanLongrifle]

Gibbs or Navy Arms manufacture a 45-70 Enfield.....if you want a bolt action.

 

[feedback]

OUCH!!!! And NO NO NO! I don't know where such thinking comes from but it's just not true. End of story.




@feedback123 is there any chance you would consider a rifle that is not a bolt action or semiauto?

Singleshots?

I have really never thought about it. The reason I was going bolt action is because of the solidness of the bolt assembly, meaning no play compared to a semi automatic rifle that has some play in it. What were you thinking about??

 

[feedback]

I'm not sure from your last if you are still looking for a new rifle or not. Although the .45-70 will kill any animal in North America, it is basically a 150 yard or less hunting cartridge. It would not be my first choice for any open country hunting. The .308 Win is a much flatter shooting cartridge, and is adequate for elk, but even though I practice with mine out to 430 yards, I'm not sure that I would shoot an elk with it at that range.

My recommendation of a cartridge for a hunter who would primarily hunt Midwestern whitetails, but may someday hunt western elk would be a bolt action rifle chambered in .30-06 or 7 mm Rem mag topped with a 3-9x40 scope.

Thank you for your time and recommendations, I will definitely be checking these out.

 

[feedback]

My personal opinion, from many years of helping basically once a year shooters and new shooters/hunters sight in their rifles at our range's public sight-in days the week before hunting season opens. Most of these hunters know very little about the ballistics of their rifles, and even less about accurately judging distances, especially in the field when hunting. Very few of them use or even own a laser distance meter, and I have yet to see one with any kind of scope that simply helps the shooter to accurately measure distances.

So when feedback123 asked which bolt action rifle chambered in either .45-70 or .308 that he should buy for hunting in his "home state of Michigan and going out West" to hunt "anything from Pronghorn to Elk and everything in between," I figure that he doesn't know a lot about guns or the animals that he wants to hunt. First of all, I don't know of any bolt action rifles chambered in .45-70. Secondly, I have successfully hunted elk and pronghorn antelope most years since 1966.

Although I do not own a .45-70, I have a safe full of pistols, rifles, shotguns, and black powder guns that I have been shooting and reloading for since the mid '60s. I know enough about ballistics to see that a .45-70 has more of a rainbow trajectory than the more flat shooting .308 Win.
For example, a .45-70 350 grain bullet with a ballistic coefficient of 0.189 shot with a muzzle velocity of 2200 fps sighted with a 100 yard zero will drop 9" at 200 yards and 35" at 300 yards; sighted with a 200 yd zero it would be 5" high at 100 yds and 21" low at 300 yds. With a 500 grain bullet that has a bc of 0.295 and a muzzle velocity of 1800 fps sighted with a 100 yd zero it will drop 13" at 200 yds and 45" at 300 yds; or with a 200 yd zero it would hit 7" high at 100 yds and drop 26" at 300 yds.

So BrentD, you are obviously a .45-70 fan. What is the +/- 3" point blank range of a .45-70 and with what bullet? Also what bolt action .45-70 rifle can feedback123 buy to accomplish that?

I now have variable scopes with up to 14x and have CDS turrets on several of my hunting rifles that I practice shooting hundreds of rounds through every year, and I also carry and use a laser rangefinder with me when hunting. However, for many years I zeroed my hunting rifles so that I would have a point blank range of +/- 3" so could get a killing shot with a center hold on any deer, antelope, or elk out to the -3" distance that I range verified with that rifle. With my .300 Weatherby that maximum point blank distance was 330 yards.

I’m glad that you know all this information about shooting and sighting in and everything in between. But all I want to do is get back in the woods like when I was a kid and make great memories with my granddaughter.

 

[AmericanLongrifle]

But all I want to do is get back in the woods like when I was a kid and make great memories with my granddaughter.

Harvest or not, your hunts will always be a success making memories. And that is more important than anything else.

 

[FLS]

I watched an episode of Guns and Ammo a while back, and yes, some are going to a semi auto 6.5 PRC, not CM.

That’s not accurate. It’s a 6.5 CM.
The guys that heading up the development program are aquaintances. The PRC won’t work in the M110.

 

[1_pointer]

If you are still set on getting a 308 Win, I'd highly suggest you take a hard look at the Barrett Fieldcraft in that chambering. Production has been suspended, due to a large military contract, but there are still some to be had. IMO, it'd make for a great rifle to meet your needs. They are about $1500. If that price point is too salty, I'd highly recommend a Tikka T3X. If that's still too expensive, a Ruger American.

 

[BrentD]

I have really never thought about it. The reason I was going bolt action is because of the solidness of the bolt assembly, meaning no play compared to a semi automatic rifle that has some play in it. What were you thinking about??

Does any sort of rifle have any attraction to you at all for historical reasons or simply appearances? If not, then whatever works works I guess. On the other hand, there are all sorts of nonbolt action, non semiauto actions that are superb rifles. And they can cost any amount of money you wish to spend.

Someone mentioned a Ruger #1. Not my personal favorite, but an extremely fine rifle that will do whatever you ask of it. For a little bit of historical bent, you could go to an 1874 Sharps in whatever configuration suites you and have one of the simplest, most easily serviced rifles of all time - and it has a great historical precedent if that appeals to you. For just pure sexy, an old Winchester 1885 singleshot can't be beat in my estimation. Of course there are Ballards, 1884 Springfields, Remington Rolling blocks, and many others, depending on how far into the weeds you enjoy going. For just plain economy an H&R Handyrifle.

You can scope any of them, of course. Or not. But you will find that they can all be a joy to hunt with because they are easy to carry, work with and shoot. All of them excel with rimmed cartridges (not the rule with bolt and semi auto rifles).

And if you want a repeater, there are pump action rifles that tore up the deer woods in their day and lever guns, of course. How about an 1895 Winchester in .30-06? Or stick with the good ol' Mr. Everything, .45-70 in a Marlin 1895 (either that cool old square bolt, original model or the modern round bolt option). Again, you can scope them, but don't consider a scope as a matter of course, unless you know for sure that's what you want. Iron sights carry easier, and probably more dependable, and make for a much easier to carry rifle (beyond just being lighter).

I don't know where you are, but if you were around here, I'd be happy to let you shoot a bunch of different rifles and see what "trips your trigger" so to speak. Today, I am going to shoot this one. If you were in Central Iowa, you would be welcome to come along.

 

[buffybr]

I’m glad that you know all this information about shooting and sighting in and everything in between. But all I want to do is get back in the woods like when I was a kid and make great memories with my granddaughter.

Great memories are one of the best parts of any hunt and one of the longest lasting. I love venison, and fed my family with it for many years, but after you eat it, it's gone. In 50 some years of hunting, I have shot so many deer, elk, and pronghorn antelope that most of their antlers and horns are now just hanging in the rafters of my garage and basically forgotten.

When I was younger, I had wildlife pictures all over my house. I grew up in Colorado and moved to Montana a few years after I graduated from college. I've had some tremendous hunting opportunities here in Montana and the last 20 years I've been able to do a bit of international hunting.

I've been lucky to have shot some great animals. I still have pictures of some of those hunts, but I don't think that a picture can compare to the actual animal, so partly to preserve the memories of those hunts, I have had quite a few of those animals mounted. These mounts have replaced many of the pictures that I used to have on the walls, and even with a 1,000 square foot Trophy Room addition to my house, I am running out of wall space.

I enjoy looking at those mounts every day, and looking at each one brings back the memories of that hunt.

And back to the original question of your first post, a .45-70 or .308?, as we get older, many of us don't enjoy getting pounded by recoil as we did when we were younger, and if your granddaughter would be hunting with you, a .308 Win would be much more pleasant for her to shoot than a .45-70. A couple of years ago I bought a Weatherby Vanguard in .308 Win and topped it with a Leupold scope. Total cost was under $1,000 and it weighs just over 8.5 pounds. I take that rifle to the range every week and enjoy laying down and ringing the 200, 300, and 430 yard gongs with itl

 

[buffybr]

Beautiful rifle there BrentB, but it wouldn't be my first choice to take into the woods for whitetail.

 

[BrentD]

No, it's not a whitetail rifle, but it could be.

The bottom one is a whitetail rifle (or mule deer, or antelope or elk or whatever). Same model, different configuration. ~ 4 lbs lighter

 

[AmericanLongrifle]

Another great caliber that nestles between the two calibers listed and would be a great compromise would be 30-30. Lighter recoiling than the .308, better trajectory than the 45-70, and can be had in single shot, lever and bolt actions. Ammo is available everywhere. Plenty of potency for anything in North America.

 

[feedback]

Great memories are one of the best parts of any hunt and one of the longest lasting. I love venison, and fed my family with it for many years, but after you eat it, it's gone. In 50 some years of hunting, I have shot so many deer, elk, and pronghorn antelope that most of their antlers and horns are now just hanging in the rafters of my garage and basically forgotten.

When I was younger, I had wildlife pictures all over my house. I grew up in Colorado and moved to Montana a few years after I graduated from college. I've had some tremendous hunting opportunities here in Montana and the last 20 years I've been able to do a bit of international hunting.

I've been lucky to have shot some great animals. I still have pictures of some of those hunts, but I don't think that a picture can compare to the actual animal, so partly to preserve the memories of those hunts, I have had quite a few of those animals mounted. These mounts have replaced many of the pictures that I used to have on the walls, and even with a 1,000 square foot Trophy Room addition to my house, I am running out of wall space.

I enjoy looking at those mounts every day, and looking at each one brings back the memories of that hunt.

And back to the original question of your first post, a .45-70 or .308?, as we get older, many of us don't enjoy getting pounded by recoil as we did when we were younger, and if your granddaughter would be hunting with you, a .308 Win would be much more pleasant for her to shoot than a .45-70. A couple of years ago I bought a Weatherby Vanguard in .308 Win and topped it with a Leupold scope. Total cost was under $1,000 and it weighs just over 8.5 pounds. I take that rifle to the range every week and enjoy laying down and ringing the 200, 300, and 430 yard gongs with itl

That’s what I am looking forward to making memories with my granddaughter and hopefully in time I can get my wife to finally get out there with us.

 

[feedback]

Does any sort of rifle have any attraction to you at all for historical reasons or simply appearances? If not, then whatever works works I guess. On the other hand, there are all sorts of nonbolt action, non semiauto actions that are superb rifles. And they can cost any amount of money you wish to spend.

Someone mentioned a Ruger #1. Not my personal favorite, but an extremely fine rifle that will do whatever you ask of it. For a little bit of historical bent, you could go to an 1874 Sharps in whatever configuration suites you and have one of the simplest, most easily serviced rifles of all time - and it has a great historical precedent if that appeals to you. For just pure sexy, an old Winchester 1885 singleshot can't be beat in my estimation. Of course there are Ballards, 1884 Springfields, Remington Rolling blocks, and many others, depending on how far into the weeds you enjoy going. For just plain economy an H&R Handyrifle.

You can scope any of them, of course. Or not. But you will find that they can all be a joy to hunt with because they are easy to carry, work with and shoot. All of them excel with rimmed cartridges (not the rule with bolt and semi auto rifles).

And if you want a repeater, there are pump action rifles that tore up the deer woods in their day and lever guns, of course. How about an 1895 Winchester in .30-06? Or stick with the good ol' Mr. Everything, .45-70 in a Marlin 1895 (either that cool old square bolt, original model or the modern round bolt option). Again, you can scope them, but don't consider a scope as a matter of course, unless you know for sure that's what you want. Iron sights carry easier, and probably more dependable, and make for a much easier to carry rifle (beyond just being lighter).

I don't know where you are, but if you were around here, I'd be happy to let you shoot a bunch of different rifles and see what "trips your trigger" so to speak. Today, I am going to shoot this one. If you were in Central Iowa, you would be welcome to come along.

Thank you for the invitation if I was in the area I definitely would love to get to know some different firearms that are out there and how they shoot and handle. God Bless and have a great night.

 

[feedback]

Harvest or not, your hunts will always be a success making memories. And that is more important than anything else.

That is the way I believe and teaching my granddaughter the same thing. It’s all about getting away and killing an animal is a bonus.

 

[buffybr]

All very nice looking rifles there BrentB. In the right hands and circumstances, I have no doubt that any one of them would not have any trouble killing a deer, antelope, or elk. How's that rear tang Vernier peep sight for quick shots in brush or thick timber?

I have a friend that gets his deer, antelope, elk, and black bear almost every year with his .22-250. I've also killed deer and antelope with my .22-250, but it wouldn't be my first choice for hunting any of those animals.

 

[diamond hitch]

Years ago one of the gun writers wrote" shoot the gun that you shoot well". If you are primarily deer and close the 45-70 isn't bad; if far the 308 is a good gun. From my view the 308 will kill elk but may not cover you in under less than optimum conditions. A partner of mine killed an elk one year with a 45-70 but it took a couple of shots.

Of the local hunters I know, the main menu has been 30-06, 7 mag, and 300 win mag. There have been a number of other rifles that cover a broad spectrum of calibers. One year my partner showed up and killed a bull with a 30-40 Krag. It did a very respectable job. Every bit as good as an 06 given the conditions.

My recommendation is go to the local gun range and see if you can shoot some of the guns. Ask some of your friends to try out theirs. Pick out some that you like. Don't narrow your choices too tight.

 

[VikingsGuy]

OUCH!!!! And NO NO NO! I don't know where such thinking comes from but it's just not true. End of story.

Doesn't really feel like end of story - depends on what you are hunting and how much drop you are comfortable dealing with.