Which caliber to get

[Deleted member 38069]

Their gas guns are... wait for it... being converted to 6.5 Creedmoor. Say it ain’t so!!!!

 

[feedback]

From your posts it sounds like you’re new to shooting. For what you’re wanting to start hunting, go with a 7mm-08, 308, or 30-06.
You’d be very hard presses to find a 45-70 in a bolt action configuration. They are almost all lever action. The rounded bullet design, like the 30-30, are made for tube magazines.
Good luck. As referenced above, there are already a ton of threads like this. Search is your friend.

Thank you very much for your time, I have been trying to get and do a lot of things done around home and reading as much as I can about hunting out West. That after I had written that I relished that I basically know the dam answer to my own question. I am new to this thread though and there is a lot of very informative information here. Also I need to take that thread down. But I want to thank you and everyone else who has helped me in things I never thought of. Thanks again and God Bless.

 

[AmericanLongrifle]

There a couple of things that will help you decide on a caliber. Distance you will be shooting, terrain that you will be hunting in, is the ammunition available if you dont reload, what are you comfortable using, etc.
I hunted with a Marlin JM 1895CB in 45-70 for a lot of years. And a 30-30 before that. That was in the northeast where heavy brush and short distances prevailed. Now that I live out west, the 30-06 has been my go-to round as there are some more open expanses here.

I know people say the "search" engine is your friend, but honestly, ask as many questions as you need. There are plenty of us here that are willing to help no matter how many times a question is asked.

 

[buffybr]

Thank you very much for your time, I have been trying to get and do a lot of things done around home and reading as much as I can about hunting out West. That after I had written that I relished that I basically know the dam answer to my own question. I am new to this thread though and there is a lot of very informative information here. Also I need to take that thread down. But I want to thank you and everyone else who has helped me in things I never thought of. Thanks again and God Bless.

I'm not sure from your last if you are still looking for a new rifle or not. Although the .45-70 will kill any animal in North America, it is basically a 150 yard or less hunting cartridge. It would not be my first choice for any open country hunting. The .308 Win is a much flatter shooting cartridge, and is adequate for elk, but even though I practice with mine out to 430 yards, I'm not sure that I would shoot an elk with it at that range.

My recommendation of a cartridge for a hunter who would primarily hunt Midwestern whitetails, but may someday hunt western elk would be a bolt action rifle chambered in .30-06 or 7 mm Rem mag topped with a 3-9x40 scope.

 

[BrentD]

I'm not sure from your last if you are still looking for a new rifle or not. Although the .45-70 will kill any animal in North America, it is basically a 150 yard or less hunting cartridge.

OUCH!!!! And NO NO NO! I don't know where such thinking comes from but it's just not true. End of story.

It would not be my first choice for any open country hunting. The .308 Win is a much flatter shooting cartridge, and is adequate for elk, but even though I practice with mine out to 430 yards, I'm not sure that I would shoot an elk with it at that range.

My recommendation of a cartridge for a hunter who would primarily hunt Midwestern whitetails, but may someday hunt western elk would be a bolt action rifle chambered in .30-06 or 7 mm Rem mag topped with a 3-9x40 scope.

@feedback123 is there any chance you would consider a rifle that is not a bolt action or semiauto?

Singleshots?

 

[buffybr]

OUCH!!!! And NO NO NO! I don't know where such thinking comes from but it's just not true. End of story.

My personal opinion, from many years of helping basically once a year shooters and new shooters/hunters sight in their rifles at our range's public sight-in days the week before hunting season opens. Most of these hunters know very little about the ballistics of their rifles, and even less about accurately judging distances, especially in the field when hunting. Very few of them use or even own a laser distance meter, and I have yet to see one with any kind of scope that simply helps the shooter to accurately measure distances.

So when feedback123 asked which bolt action rifle chambered in either .45-70 or .308 that he should buy for hunting in his "home state of Michigan and going out West" to hunt "anything from Pronghorn to Elk and everything in between," I figure that he doesn't know a lot about guns or the animals that he wants to hunt. First of all, I don't know of any bolt action rifles chambered in .45-70. Secondly, I have successfully hunted elk and pronghorn antelope most years since 1966.

Although I do not own a .45-70, I have a safe full of pistols, rifles, shotguns, and black powder guns that I have been shooting and reloading for since the mid '60s. I know enough about ballistics to see that a .45-70 has more of a rainbow trajectory than the more flat shooting .308 Win.
For example, a .45-70 350 grain bullet with a ballistic coefficient of 0.189 shot with a muzzle velocity of 2200 fps sighted with a 100 yard zero will drop 9" at 200 yards and 35" at 300 yards; sighted with a 200 yd zero it would be 5" high at 100 yds and 21" low at 300 yds. With a 500 grain bullet that has a bc of 0.295 and a muzzle velocity of 1800 fps sighted with a 100 yd zero it will drop 13" at 200 yds and 45" at 300 yds; or with a 200 yd zero it would hit 7" high at 100 yds and drop 26" at 300 yds.

So BrentD, you are obviously a .45-70 fan. What is the +/- 3" point blank range of a .45-70 and with what bullet? Also what bolt action .45-70 rifle can feedback123 buy to accomplish that?

I now have variable scopes with up to 14x and have CDS turrets on several of my hunting rifles that I practice shooting hundreds of rounds through every year, and I also carry and use a laser rangefinder with me when hunting. However, for many years I zeroed my hunting rifles so that I would have a point blank range of +/- 3" so could get a killing shot with a center hold on any deer, antelope, or elk out to the -3" distance that I range verified with that rifle. With my .300 Weatherby that maximum point blank distance was 330 yards.

 

[BrentD]

My personal opinion, from many years of helping basically once a year shooters and new shooters/hunters sight in their rifles at our range's public sight-in days the week before hunting season opens. Most of these hunters know very little about the ballistics of their rifles, and even less about accurately judging distances, especially in the field when hunting. Very few of them use or even own a laser distance meter, and I have yet to see one with any kind of scope that simply helps the shooter to accurately measure distances.

So when feedback123 asked which bolt action rifle chambered in either .45-70 or .308 that he should buy for hunting in his "home state of Michigan and going out West" to hunt "anything from Pronghorn to Elk and everything in between," I figure that he doesn't know a lot about guns or the animals that he wants to hunt. First of all, I don't know of any bolt action rifles chambered in .45-70. Secondly, I have successfully hunted elk and pronghorn antelope most years since 1966.

Although I do not own a .45-70, I have a safe full of pistols, rifles, shotguns, and black powder guns that I have been shooting and reloading for since the mid '60s. I know enough about ballistics to see that a .45-70 has more of a rainbow trajectory than the more flat shooting .308 Win.
For example, a .45-70 350 grain bullet with a ballistic coefficient of 0.189 shot with a muzzle velocity of 2200 fps sighted with a 100 yard zero will drop 9" at 200 yards and 35" at 300 yards; sighted with a 200 yd zero it would be 5" high at 100 yds and 21" low at 300 yds. With a 500 grain bullet that has a bc of 0.295 and a muzzle velocity of 1800 fps sighted with a 100 yd zero it will drop 13" at 200 yds and 45" at 300 yds; or with a 200 yd zero it would hit 7" high at 100 yds and drop 26" at 300 yds.

So BrentD, you are obviously a .45-70 fan. What is the +/- 3" point blank range of a .45-70 and with what bullet? Also what bolt action .45-70 rifle can feedback123 buy to accomplish that?

I now have variable scopes with up to 14x and have CDS turrets on several of my hunting rifles that I practice shooting hundreds of rounds through every year, and I also carry and use a laser rangefinder with me when hunting. However, for many years I zeroed my hunting rifles so that I would have a point blank range of +/- 3" so could get a killing shot with a center hold on any deer, antelope, or elk out to the -3" distance that I range verified with that rifle. With my .300 Weatherby that maximum point blank distance was 330 yards.

There is at least one .45-70 bolt rifle made relatively recently but probably not in current production. There are several others that are "often" converted to .45-70. I have never owned one and I tend to have a dim view of bolt action rifles in general. It is just a personal thing. You can google them easily.

As for 3" pbr (that's a short beer to me), I don't know and could not possibly care less. So, to paraphrase from your message above, when someone starts talking about .45-70s and use the words "rainbow" and PBRs (that aren't from Milwaukee), I figure you are another one of those guys that don't know a lot about the histories and traditions of hunting or firearms and are entranced by the word "flat" and are more about words like "rifle" than "riflery". You might ask what is the point blank range of +/- 3" for a bow? Yet, bowyers know how to shoot, which is something that is often lost on people who live under the spell of the "flat". They even do it Out West. Amazing? No. Interesting and challenging and fun and traditional, and just all and out perfect? You bet.

I'm happy for you and your Weatherby. The two of you were made for each other. If, some day, you want to learn how to shoot and use a .45-70, let me know. 'til then I'll happily help feedback123 pick out a .45-70, while you do whatever with that Weatherby.

 

[2ski]

I know people say the "search" engine is your friend, but honestly, ask as many questions as you need. There are plenty of us here that are willing to help no matter how many times a question is asked.

Exactly. Honestly I've always wondered how many of the search engine is your friend police would've answered the question in the first place. Or do they think they are sticking up for the guys that know more than them that are just fine answering the question. I've always felt if you dont want to answer the question don't answer it. In any way. Let the people that are cool answering it answer it.

 

[Don Fischer]

I suspect the 45-70 will kill a game animal just as dead at 500yds as any cartridge. Wanta be's keep talking about long range shooting like it's a common occurrence and easy just depending on the "rifle" you select. Well if you lack the skills, it really isn't gonna make a tinkers dam what "rifle" you select. "Rifle" I'm pretty sure they mean cartridge, no rifle every killed much of anything! So the next magic phrase to come up is, "out west". People seem to envision this as a huge flat waste land full of opportunity at 500yds. Ever wonder how indians made a living out here with just a bow? They knew how to hunt!

 

[AmericanLongrifle]

I suspect the 45-70 will kill a game animal just as dead at 500yds as any cartridge. Wanta be's keep talking about long range shooting like it's a common occurrence and easy just depending on the "rifle" you select. Well if you lack the skills, it really isn't gonna make a tinkers dam what "rifle" you select. "Rifle" I'm pretty sure they mean cartridge, no rifle every killed much of anything! So the next magic phrase to come up is, "out west". People seem to envision this as a huge flat waste land full of opportunity at 500yds. Ever wonder how indians made a living out here with just a bow? They knew how to hunt!

Exactly.

 

[slatebuilder]

As much as I love 308’s, living in the Midwest would make it hard to discount a 45-70 as some midwestern states allow a straight wall rifle cartridge for deer in their firearms season. A 45-70 with some Hornady Lever Evolution ammo would be pretty swell. While not bolt actions, a Browning High Wall or Ruger #1 in 45-70 topped with a VX3 would be really really sweet.

 

[rjthehunter]

There's a reason the military still uses .308 for sniper rifles. As for manufacturer, I love my Howa 1500. It's hard to beat the value for the price point. I also have a Ruger American in .308 and I can cloverleaf holes at 100 yards with Federal Fusions.

308 is still being used due to the fact that it's what the military uses. It was more because there is more readily available 308 ammo on the battlefield than 338 or 6.5. A 338 WM or Lapua, or 300WM is a better shooting bullet.

I'd buy a 338 WM if I got to buy one rifle for hunting. Not too big, not too small, can efficiently take any big game animal on the earth.

 

[elkantlers]

308 is still being used due to the fact that it's what the military uses. It was more because there is more readily available 308 ammo on the battlefield than 338 or 6.5. A 338 WM or Lapua, or 300WM is a better shooting bullet.

I'd buy a 338 WM if I got to buy one rifle for hunting. Not too big, not too small, can efficiently take any big game animal on the earth.

Ya, 338WM is a good caliber. But it doesn't hold a candle to the Manbun. Ther have the best MOA by far.

 

[rjthehunter]

Ya, 338WM is a good caliber. But it doesn't hold a candle to the Manbun. That have the best MOA by far.

Correct, but can the manbun harvest any animal on the globe as effectively?

 

[elkantlers]

Correct, but can the manbun harvest any animal on the globe as effectively?

Gopher to Grizzly, it can do it all.

 

[AmericanLongrifle]

Gopher to Grizzly, it can do it all.

So can a 22lr. Your 6.5 manbun argument is invalid. Please try again.

 

[Don Fischer]

308 is still being used due to the fact that it's what the military uses. It was more because there is more readily available 308 ammo on the battlefield than 338 or 6.5. A 338 WM or Lapua, or 300WM is a better shooting bullet.

I'd buy a 338 WM if I got to buy one rifle for hunting. Not too big, not too small, can efficiently take any big game animal on the earth.

I was under the impression, probably wrong, that the military went to 300 win mag for sniper rifle's?

 

[AmericanLongrifle]

I was under the impression, probably wrong, that the military went to 300 win mag for sniper rifle's?

As stated, the Army did. And I also believe the Corp did also. The only 7.62x51 rifles that are still in active service for regular troops are the M110 and the EBR14.

The M24 is a rem700 long action that was fitted with a bolt stop. When they rechambered to 300wm, they eliminated the bolt stop and put the action into a chassis as the XM2010.

I have seen posts and heard that certain SF units have gone to 6.5 in their gassers for sniping applications. I cannot confirm that info.

 

[elkantlers]

So can a 22lr. Your 6.5 manbun argument is invalid. Please try again.

Apparently the sarcasm was lost on you.

 

[JohnCushman]

As stated, the Army did. And I also believe the Corp did also. The only 7.62x51 rifles that are still in active service for regular troops are the M110 and the EBR14.

The M24 is a rem700 long action that was fitted with a bolt stop. When they rechambered to 300wm, they eliminated the bolt stop and put the action into a chassis as the XM2010.

I have seen posts and heard that certain SF units have gone to 6.5 in their gassers for sniping applications. I cannot confirm that info.

I watched an episode of Guns and Ammo a while back, and yes, some are going to a semi auto 6.5 PRC, not CM.