What's Wrong With Elk Farms

[Washington Hunter]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Is there any reason for them not to raise elk in captivity?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I really can't believe you said that, Dan. Haven't you read any of the articles I posted that listed all the reasons? Apparently not.

Buzz I know it's a waste of time trying to change the minds of people who have no respect for wildlife or wild places, but I'm doing it for the benefit of other people who may read these posts. I know I'm probably not going to change anything, but at least it makes me feel better!

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 02-28-2003 15:41: Message edited by: Washington Hunter ]</font>

 

[Ten Bears]

I still stand with DANR, on this issue. I have read what you had to say, but I feel WH & BUZZ haven't grasped the underlying topic. You call me shallow.

 

[danr55]

WH, I really can't believe that you feel that critters are more important than the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

 

[BuzzH]

Danr, you dont understand either the BOR or the Constitution. Passing a law like 143 IS NOT against either, if it was Len Wallace and his legal team would have prevailed. The courts, which INTERPRET the law under our legal system, upheld 143. Do you get that?

If you think elk are dumb, what does that say for people like you who cant seem to out-smart one? Wheres the pics of the dumb-assed meaningless good for nothing cow elk you got this year up at Jackson? Why even hunt the stupid bastards? Being the philanthropist you are, I would think you'd be donating your effort, time, and money to something more worthwhile...like starving kids in Ethiopia, defense fund for the BOR's or some other cause.

I disagree, 99 percent of the human population wouldnt be as hard to kill as your average elk, and they'd make a damn pathetic trophy.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 02-28-2003 16:34: Message edited by: BuzzH ]</font>

 

[Bullhound]

Danr & Calihunter,

Just one Dumbass country boy here that has absolutely no knowledge about nothin. Got my head in the sand soes I can't see nothing. Well, ceptin the part about the courts ruling that I143 is as legal as it gets and, by the way, doesn't infringe upon any "humans" right.

You seem to keep hammering the opinion that none of us poor dumb country folk can figure out these big legal issues. When did you guys get the court ruling reversed? Just want to ask you guys one direct question.

Would you give a shit if the only hunting to be done anymore was on a game farm/ranch where the animals are held in by a fence?

 

[Calif. Hunter]

When did you stop beating your wife?

 

[Ithaca 37]

Dan and Calif.,Keep up the good work being the bad guys.

How long do ya think you can take the heat?

There are those who respect and revere elk as a great wild trophy and those who would domesticate them (hard for me to believe, but true). I personally abhor the privatization and domestication of elk. I find it very disturbing that it was ever started and I don't think it should be allowed to spread. Keep it all in Texas, where it seems to be a tradition and keep it out of everywhere else.

 

[Nut]

Sorry Ithaca, But I disagree with you. Dan and Cali are not the bad guys. I resent you LABELING them as such. It is a matter of opinion and I have learned from this forum that the only opinion that counts is MINE!

So I can be like the rest of y'all now.

 

[danr55]

Since this discussion began, I have been trying to make everyone understand that it isn't about elk farming, or not farming or how anyone voted in Wyoming. My problem with what's been done is much more basic than that. It goes to the basic freedoms that this country was founded on and the basic princinples of the doctorine of the Constitution.

The only reason that this law was perptrated was because of the protections provided by the Constitution. The Constitution of the United States is the foundation for the only government in the world that would permit it's own suppression by a majority vote of the populace. That is it's strenght as well as it's weakness. If the Constitution is ever done away with, it will be from within, not from a foreign enemy. Every time some little piddly assed bill is passed that destroys someones individual rights, a small piece of why this country was founded, dies. The fact that it happens is both the glory and the danger of such a system.

So I applaud what you've done in Wyoming by applying the precepts of majority rule and running those damn elk farmers out of the country. As a Constitutionalist, I condemn what you've done for using the system to destroy the personal freedom of a fellow American. The difference between what you've done in Wyoming and what the governments of the State of California or New York or the City of Chicago would do with your right to own firearms is slight. The largest difference is that, at least for the time being, you've won. Or perhaps the Outfitters lobby has won.

So I will not belabor this point any farther. You have won your battle, I hope you are as fortunate with the war... This discussion is beginning to degrade into a personal pissing contest so I see no reason to continue with it.

Oh, and Bullhound, thank you for your splendid, intelligent commentary. You speak very well for your peers.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 02-28-2003 19:20: Message edited by: danr55 ]</font>

 

[Washington Hunter]

So Dan...I take it that since you're into everybody having the right to do whatever they want because it's their property and the constitution says they can do whatever they want, that it would ok with you if somebody polluted the water that provides you and your family with water? It's fine as long as the polluting of the water is being done while the water is on their property. Doesn't matter that you happen to live downstream from where that pollution is entering the water and so it contaminates your water?

 

[BuzzH]

Ok Danr, lets just do away with the initiative process...there now your freedoms are intact and secure

You bellow about freedoms, but slam the processes that are assured under the Constitution...you know states rights and all that other meaningless stuff.

 

[Moosie]

Why have it one way or another.. Why not have some Elk captive, Some wild ? Require a Double fence around the fence operations and a secure Parimiter. Let people shoot an Elk in a pen if they want to !!

I think it's wrong to lable people "FAT", "NON HUNTER" , "LOOSER", "RICH BASTERD" jsut because They hunt a ranch. I'll go toe to toe with anyone of you (Including our healthy Buzz boy) in the hills. I can Hunt with the best of them, or pretend to do such

Yet I have hunted a ranch 3 times now. Does it make me any less of a hunter becasue I choose to hunt a ranch as well...

For those against Ranching Elk, Whats your Take on hunting DRIVES, Hunting deer with DOGS, BAITING BEAR, FISHING with live bait.....

And how many own a picture that you didn't paint ? thats the same logic that some of you bring to the table.

I agree in montana that the laws said no to elk ranching.. but in places it's legal, Go for it !!!

Ithica, Cali me and Danr Can take the heat

 

[Ithaca 37]

"Ithica, Cali me and Danr Can take the heat"

Prove it!!

I'll check on you in six months!

 

[Washington Hunter]

Moosie, I don't think anybody ever doubted your abilities as a hunter, and we've seen pictures so we know you don't have a fat ass. But a guy has to wonder why a physically fit guy like you living in the middle of awesome elk country, would have to resort to shooting an elk in a pen just for the fun of killing it and for bragging rights to some antlers on the wall. Like I said before, I really don't have anything personal against somebody who goes on a canned hunt, other than the fact that they are supporting the scumbag game farmer. Seriously, if you need the meat, or just feel the need to kill something, why not go to Texas? Seems canned hunting is a way of life there. And what happens there, I don't really care. It's just like if you want to get laid, and feel the need to pay for it, you go to Nevada. What I think is absolutely wrong, is elk farming in any of the western states that have wild populations of elk. There is just no need for it. Have you read any of the articles I posted, like the one by Valerius Geist? If you have, and you still think game farming is ok, then I give up.

 

[Ten Bears]

Sound of Applause for DANR's (to the sound of the national anthem) well said. You gave a great presentation, but I an sure were not heard. Refer to my signature.

 

[Moosie]

Washington Hunter... Just for a bit of Clarification.. I have never nor Never will hunt an ELK in a ranch.. When I said I hunted 3 ranches, I meant for Texas Dahl, Russian Pigs, Corsican Rams, Angora Sheep, Black HAwiiaan.. Ect ...

Every Elk I shot has been on a do it yourself Guided hunt, Besides my Montana Hunt were I relied on my Montana Conections to help me out.. I just don't put doen people that Choose to hunt Elk on a penned hunt. But like Buzz says,that my Constitutional Right to think How I want

Thats the Point I'm making.. I don't need to Hunt Elk on a Ranch to let other people hunt elk there...

You said that "would have to resort to shooting an elk in a pen just for the fun of killing it and for bragging rights to some antlers on the wall."

First off.. I'm still in the Hunting stage that i like the Killing... Nothing wrong with that. If you don't like the Killing then don't go hunting I say.

ASLO...So what if A guy wants some Bonage on his wall ? I bring to the table the Example of a Painting I own.. I sure as HEll don't brag to others that I painted it,. I bought the Sun of a gun and Hang it proudly cuz It looks cool !!! To many people think that becasue YOU shoot a 400 class bull and HAng it you got a little PAckage and A big Belley and Checkbook.... If I hadn't been fortunate enough to hunt the Elusive Elk and Shoot a few Nice ones before I wsa 40-50.. Then I'd surely go Wack one or Mount one jsut to look at it, AMybe I wouldn't enjoy it as much as someone "HUNTING" for it, But who's to say ? I would look at it like I do My elk painting I didn't draw..... Becasue It's a Beautiful thing.... JSut like my Wife is.. And speaking of, I need to get off this Dam Computer and Wake her up for some.. Uhhh Errrr... Uhhhh I meant to get this Baby off my lap

Ithica.. You're right, I won' be down here in 6 months.. let alone 6 weeks or even 6 hours Maybe.. I'm not the Debating Political Type... I'm here more to meet people that like to do What I like and Share fun stories and Hunts with them.... I leave the Argueing.. Errr... I mean Wasted typing.. Errr I mean Discussing to you ecxperts !!!

BUT, then Again ya never Know, Becasue I sure come down here and Read what you guys type all the time !!! Keep up the good work !! (PS, Saw DON Clowers tonight,,, Said you saw him yesterday)

 

[The Hedgehog]

What's wrong with elk farms??

Dunno, other than the fact that they attract a lot of gay men.

 

[danr55]

I would think, given the way you talk, you would find that an asset rather than a detriment, Greenknees.

 

[Washington Hunter]

Greenhorn, LMAO!!!

 

[Ithaca 37]

Wash. Hunter, Thanks for the Geist article you linked to on 02-28-2003 12:31. I can't imagine how anyone could try to defend game farming after reading it.