What has changed in the last 80 years

[BrentD]

This is an interesting question and one that I have pondered a lot today when I should have been doing other things.

Sure certain, a number of ungulate species are doing a whole bunch better than they were 80 yrs ago. None more spectacularly so than Whitetails, but I think Elk, bison, and maybe antelope could be included.

Add turkeys and alligators, maybe black bears in many areas (esp. the East), and I just accidentally typed and erased beers before realizing that they have definitely changed for the better too.

I think technology has changed dramatically, and for the worse, almost without exception. I know I'm going to be in the minority on that opinion, but I fear for hunting because of the technology. Better boots, tents and jackets are one thing but cartridges, bullets, rifles, range finders, ballistics software, and glassware are another and I do not share the popular opinion that they are for the better if one looks at the biggest picture of hunting. There are, however, lots of advances in fireproof suits, so I will be putting mine on right now.

While hunting populations may be better in many areas for many species, there might also be far fewer populations due to habitat loss. That would make for an interesting analysis.

One thing that as definitely changed is the number of people hunting and with more time and money and capability to be successful in hunting. When I look at the threads on what tags and points people apply for, I am stunned. That certainly was not common 80 yrs ago.

 

[danr55]

What's changed? My first hunt was a park in camp and hike out a couple of miles and sit and watch the bear, elk, and various critters wander around the bush. Now it's drive and park, hike a ways and sit and watch the other vehicles driving and looking or parking and hiking and looking back at you through their binos as you watch them through your binos. There are roads and folk everywhere. There are as many applications submitted to AZGFD each year as there were folk living in Arizona back then.

 

[Europe]

deven deer---Africa first Richard and then if everything in Spain has been sold I will be headed back AND I agree with you about German Glass (-:

Brian in Montana--If you noticed in my opening, I also dont understand the desire to "try" a shot, for the reasons you stated and because, to me it seems like "shooting", not "hunting"

BrentD---I still prefer to use the 300 H & H with a fixed scope and walnut stock----I am seriouslyl stuck, in the past. . I do feel bullet construction has improved, and glass, but my needs have always been pretty basic and all the new gadgets and technology never interested me, but this may be a good time for me to also invest in one of those fireproof suites you speak of LOL

danr55-----AMEN !

 

[DIY HUNTER]

the way hunting industry has become all about the money (majorly commercialized) ...
access to land as well....

 

[vanish]

I love this thread. I wasn't sure if it was supposed to be only about firearms or all hunting.

I can't go back 80 years, but I sure have seen some changes in my 20+ years of hunting.

LEASES - When I was first starting hunting back in NY, I could walk anywhere within in range of our property and as long as I wasn't visible from their houses, nobody cared. In my last season before I moved to Colorado 10 years ago, you didn't set foot anywhere that wasn't your property because those farmers / landowners were making $1000 from a couple of guys who leased every piece of property on the block and who might show up or might not.

ETHICS - I think it is probably more dependent on who you grew up hunting with, but when I was a kid, many of the older generation I knew would say things like "its easier to track them if they're bleeding" or "I took a whack at 'em". My grandfather used to take trips to the West back in the 70s, and he told me plenty of stories of road hunting, including a time when their guide for pronghorn in WY had them shooting from the back of a truck going 50mph. The people I hunt with now and in general hear stories about are much more conscious of making a good, clean shot.

 

[Losing_Sanity]

I had this very conversation with my adult son just the other day. We talked about a some of the same things that have already been mentioned. Some good and some not so good. One thing that has changed, not just in the outdoors world but everywhere, is attitude. Attitude, mainly in the "lack of respect" for others category. There seems to be a cultural shift in every aspect of life and in hunting public land as well. Seems to me that when I was a young guy, there was a lot more respect for others. For example, if you saw someone hunting a ravine or specific area, you would respect that person and go to the next one. If you saw a person walking down the road to camp, you offered a ride. Now people just hunt on top of each other and dust people out without even slowing down.

A few years ago, as my daughter and I were glassing a small hill and watching a buck, a pickup came rattling up past us. The driver looked at what we were looking at and then proceeded up and shot that deer right out from under us. One antelope archery season, as I was stalking some bedded antelope, one of two drivers (adult) riding in side by sides with a bunch of kids saw me. Both side by sides drove right up to about 100 yards to where I was and spooked the whole herd. I guess they thought they were going to watch me. These are just a few examples and I'm sure there are many others but you get the point. Randy even touched on this subject in a couple of his videos. I think one was an antelope hunt.

This is a really good thread and I enjoy reading about about everyone's thoughts.

 

[oleefish2]

When I started hunting in the early 1960s, it was a much more personal. You would contact a land owner in person to ask about hunting on their land face to face. If they were working on a projects you jumped in and started helping. You just planned on it being that way and planned your day to be their all day if needed. You were expected to go in the house and have a meal, cup of coffee, and talk about what ever. Some expected you to stop at the house before going hunting and they would explain were to go, not go and remind you about which gates were to be closed or left open. You were expected to stop at the house and tell your story and tell them if you had seen anything that was out of the ordinary. No money ever changed hands but gifts, like a new pare of gloves, case of beer, bottles of whiskey or something of need were given.

 

[std7mag]

In the grand scheme of things, i feel a lot has changed.
1) With the advent of CNC machining there are more accurate out of the box rifles.
2) Advances in composites have seen lighter/stiffer stocks with different forms.
3) Again with advances in computers, and CNC machining we are seeing closer tolerances. Computer CAD/CAM is allowing lighter rifles.
4) Advances in metalurgy is seeing more of different types of metals, and different heat treat.
5) Optics!! Huge advancements have been made in this field!
6) Again computers. Allowing distance reading, wind meters, altimeters, ballistic calculators, chronographs, pressure trace, CAD/CAM, the very forum we are on.
6) Bullets. Monolith bullets, tipped bullets, bonding methods for core and jacket, the very design themselves, uniformity. Once not in the too distant past, you would be told flat out that you could not get match accuracy out of a hunting bullet. I feel those days are gone!
7) Attitude of hunting in and of itself.
We are no longer looking at just putting food on the table to survive. We have hopefully become more aware of how hunting impacts our enviornment. "Stewards of the land."

 

[scubohuntr]

Changes in hunting, as opposed to changes in shooting.

My first deer license, 45 years ago in Minnesota, cost $6 and was good for "deer or bear or both". It was the first or second year of having a deer season around home, one day, bucks only. Shotguns with slugs or muzzleloaders. When I was only a lad, my father hunted the "big woods" up north with his old Krag. I suspect it was more an excuse to get away from the family for a week or so, as he rarely killed a deer. There just weren't many deer around. Sometimes he would bring home a grouse or two. I remember two deer before my brother and I started hunting; we hit it pretty hard and generally came home with at least one between the two of us. As the years went on the seasons got a little longer, the bag limits a little more liberal. There were no turkeys around. Last time I was up at the farm, I watched a flock feeding across the creek from the kitchen window. There are bear and wolves around now, unheard of back then. When we took the .22s out for squirrels, it was mostly gray squirrels. Now the fox squirrels have pretty much taken over. Moose used to be common, now they are rarely seen since the Leptospirosis in the 80's.

Dad had one hunting rifle, an old DCM Krag his brother bought in the 30s. He had a 16 gauge shotgun. One box of ammo for each lasted for years. When we started hunting, he added a Marlin .22 and a cheap bolt-action .410. In high school, I bought a Remington 870 slug gun and a Bear Kodiak recurve. Eventually I built up a few more, lost the 870 to a burglary and the Kodiak to a bad trade, and life went on. I quit hunting for years after my first wife passed away, and have just gotten back into it in the last few years. I'm hunting in the mountains now, trying to figure out elk. That's a change, but just for me. I don't walk as far or as fast as I once did, and I spend as much time figuring out how I am going to get back out as I do figuring out how to get in.

Media has made a difference too. The one thing that would bring the little savages in from the fields and woods was when American Sportsman came on Saturday afternoon (the old one with Curt Gowdy- not the travesty it became in later years). We'd watch Fred Bear, Howard Hill, Joe Foss, and others hunting places we could only dream of. That was pretty much it, one hour a week, and there wasn't always hunting on. Sometimes it was gymnastics or skiing. Now I can watch Youtube videos for hours any time I want. I have DVDs of old hunts. There are forums.

Jose Ortega y Gassett made some comments about the way we remember the "good old days". We compress memories until we only retain the high points. After a few decades, we have a line of memories of the good times of dozens and dozens of hunting trips. They all run together until it seems that back then there was a lot more game, because we don't remember the days we saw nothing, or the seasons we hunted hard and never even cut a fresh track. I hunted bears in northern Minnesota for years, and never killed one. I don't really remember the seasons I sat for hours over a bait with only mosquitoes for company. I remember a 500+ pound bear coming in and cruising around the bait and right out again, never giving me a shot. I remember coming out of the cattails with a flashlight after dark to a groundshaking snort, and looking way, way up into the reflecting eyes of a monster bull moose. I remember the bear that came into camp at 2 am and wouldn't leave until I put a second warning shot between its front paws. If I went back there and did it again, I would probably be disappointed, and think, "We used to see bears all the time. There certainly are a lot fewer than there used to be", forgetting that it took over a dozen seasons to collect the memories I'm looking back on.

 

[Northwoods Labs]

Very interesting thread to read through. I am too young to add much, but a couple things I have noticed in my neck of the woods:

1. Whitetail hunting has changed dramatically. The deer camp tradition is dying. The year round scouting and strategies regarding whitetails has become a major thing, with the popularity of running many trail cameras, naming deer, shed hunting, etc. Also, deer hunting has almost gotten kind of an agricultural aspect to it. "Managing" via food plots on private lands have become a major thing. I think some have the impression that deer would starve without food plots. Whitetail hunting has become a year round industry.

2. The number of absentee land owners and cottages in my area. Lots of land owned by out of town/state people that is only used a few times a year. Our lakes have also become so much more developed, even in my life. It is sad. Lakes that used to have a few, small shacks on them now have shorelines with "cottages" that are more like mansions stacked on top of each other.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Very interesting thread to read through. I am too young to add much, but a couple things I have noticed in my neck of the woods:

1. Whitetail hunting has changed dramatically. The deer camp tradition is dying. The year round scouting and strategies regarding whitetails has become a major thing, with the popularity of running many trail cameras, naming deer, shed hunting, etc. Also, deer hunting has almost gotten kind of an agricultural aspect to it. "Managing" via food plots on private lands have become a major thing. I think some have the impression that deer would starve without food plots. Whitetail hunting has become a year round industry.

2. The number of absentee land owners and cottages in my area. Lots of land owned by out of town/state people that is only used a few times a year. Our lakes have also become so much more developed, even in my life. It is sad. Lakes that used to have a few, small shacks on them now have shorelines with "cottages" that are more like mansions stacked on top of each other.

Seems like both of these, "growing" bucks and over building the woods, are kinda taking the adventure out of life. I'd rather shoot a rag horn on the top of a mountain than a 375 bull my backyard...

 

[bobbydean]

My two thoughts.

Used to come home from college and my brother and I would be bored and buy a tag and go hunting. Usually successful. ( Sorry about the long sentence,)

Second thought. There a lot more women out there hunting. There has always been a few. Now there are much more abundant (thank those women).

 

[Wyohunt]

Idiots wearing led headlamps at first light. Fewer smokers. The ATV plague. Long distance wounding. Steel shot........

 

[David58]

More deer in my home state - in the '70s it was rare to see one, and hunting seasons for deer were almost nonexistent. ATVs - demon spawn. Inline muzzleloaders - the seasons were established because of the handicaps of a front stuffer, not for rifles loading from the breach and bragging on 200 yard and more kills. Camo - only vets back from Viet Nam wore camo back in the day...

 

[BrentD]

Compound bows and now. Crossbows. More or less the end of archery.

 

[elkhnter]

“Hunters” for the worse. It seems to me that inches rule the hunt around here. Very few guys are happy with a buck or a deer anymore. What I hear is “He’s only a 120 class buck” or “ He was a 170” 10 point”. People are paying huge amounts of money to lease trash ground around here thinking that because it’s Illinois, there’s a P&Y buck behind every other tree. Trespassing and road hunting with crossbows have become a every day occurrence.
Being able to post your big animal on here, Facebook and other forums has become the highlight of the hunt. Pound your chest for the crowd and show what a mighty shooter you are. Doesn’t matter how you got him.
Don’t get me wrong, a big rack gets my heart pounding and I don’t mind sharing harvest pictures. Inches are not what drives me, it’s the hunt. It’s not worth it to me to bend or break the laws to shoot a big animal. You’d probably never know it if I did, but I would.
I take my hat off to the hunters, I shun the shooters.

 

[Mlgrace]

I am 59 and from AZ. Elk frequent my front yard. Lived in many other places over the years but I am back home.

elk elk elk everywhere. Deer are few and far between. Elk are nonetheless hard to draw. Guides are on big bulls and bucks for months before the hunt and then use spotters with radios to get the hunter into the killing some.

bears and lions are also everywhere but nowdays pretty much hunted as an extra tag or with a guide.

plenty of turkeys around but the season is not during the calling season. It is pretty well over by that point. So road hunters rule.

hunters. Too many and they are chasing trophies. Locals are still meat hunters but have a hard time drawing. so many hunters want to shoot their trophy from 800 yards and then state as much in their opening comment on their success. I do not get that. That becomes shooting or simply killing. I try to get as close as possible.

ethics. When hunting becomes a competition then we are losing. I detest predator contests and big buck contests. I also think that the shed hunters are out of control. So much of the range has poor feed potential and when they are at their weakest the woods are full of hunters, dogs and diesel trucks.

another forum that I am on has a thread about hunting deer bear and elk with the 223. Anyone who comments that they think it is not ethical to shoot an elk at 400 yards with a 223 is castigated. So far I have kept my tongue.

so I do not have answers to our problems but I know that a ton has changed. I am still a meat hunter though.

 

[RaiderRich]

Compared to some I am young and to others older. I hit 55 this year so officially in food establishments I can get the senior citizen discount. As I have lived most of my life in NY and never traveled to hunt until I actually moved out west in 2012 my perspective is a bit more on the narrow side, but as far as changes I have seen?

1. NY has some draconian gun laws and they are worse than even CA when it comes to AR style weapons. Things legal in CA are not legal in NY. That was not the case 39 years ago when I killed my first deer. That is one of those negative things.

2. On the positive side in NY. They legalized the use of rifles where I lived and saved my shoulder the fun side of sighting in the old slug gun. People discuss recoil on here and fearing a flinch, well after NY legalized rifles I went out and bought my first ever centerfire rifle, a Marlin XL7 30-06. Felt like a 22 compared to 12 gauge slugs.

3. Technology, well duh. Used to be I would use walkie talkie style radios when in the woods to communicate with my hunting friends. Now just have the cell phone handy. Obviously technology has brought us better ammo and equipment (in general). I love OnX and other hunting apps. Makes it easier to not cross into private land here in Nevada.

4. Me personally, I don't bow hunt as often as I used to. My professional life eats into my time and I use time off to go back to NY to see my kids and grandkids, though my trips often take place around NYs deer season, but that is only a bizarre coincidence So when I do hunt out west I prefer to use my rifle as I simply am as stealthy as a bull in a glass shop with red curtains. I can creep to within 300 yards easy enough but 30 yards in the open terrain of Nevada, I would be watching to many deer running and not waiting for me to stalk up on them. A man has to know his limits.

5. Again me and maybe people in general, I do find myself wanting to use less lead in my firearms and look at lead free options when I can. I still will look to see what works best in the particular firearm I am using and if it is a lead product I will use it but I will give Barnes, Hornady and Nosler lead free products a try.

Lots of interesting posts in this thread. I avoided the social issues and peoples perceptions on the sport as I wanted to keep myself in a light hearted mood as I am getting older and do need to watch my blood pressure.

 

[2rocky]

Even in my childhood in the 80's, kids learned to hunt with their parents teaching them to shoot targets or cans, and then turned them loose with .22's. Often times it was with other kids to hunt what ever small game they could find. Now kids first "dead animals" are deer when they turn 12. It's a big first step for kids versus shooting rats in the barnyard, or possums and coons in the creek when they are 9.

You never saw or heard coyotes. Northern CA bay area.

Jump shooting a buck was considered as sporting as flushing a gamebird.

Everyone had a hunting dog.

Fixed blade skinning knives that were a hand me down from Grandpa

Hunting pants were blue jeans

Cartridge pouches on your belt, and you never carried a pack.

 

[Bigbucky]

“Hunters” for the worse. It seems to me that inches rule the hunt around here. Very few guys are happy with a buck or a deer anymore. What I hear is “He’s only a 120 class buck” or “ He was a 170” 10 point”. People are paying huge amounts of money to lease trash ground around here thinking that because it’s Illinois, there’s a P&Y buck behind every other tree. Trespassing and road hunting with crossbows have become a every day occurrence.
Being able to post your big animal on here, Facebook and other forums has become the highlight of the hunt. Pound your chest for the crowd and show what a mighty shooter you are. Doesn’t matter how you got him.
Don’t get me wrong, a big rack gets my heart pounding and I don’t mind sharing harvest pictures. Inches are not what drives me, it’s the hunt. It’s not worth it to me to bend or break the laws to shoot a big animal. You’d probably never know it if I did, but I would.
I take my hat off to the hunters, I shun the shooters.

Very true!