Ithaca 37
New member
Scout came from Dave Holley, another Pudelpointer breeder here in Boise. One of Bob's dogs sired Scout's puppies three years ago. She had seven daughters! 
What breed of dog?
- Thread starter 1_pointer
- Start date
Calif. Hunter
Active member
I would second Ithaca's suggestion that you check out NAVHDA breeders. Other questions I would ask are about you and your living conditions. Do you own or rent? Do you have a house or an apartment? How patient are you? What kind of temperament do YOU and your wife have? Does a hardheaded, macho, charge through anything type of dog appeal to you, or a more sensitive, cooperative, "where do we go now, Boss?" kind of dog appeal to you? I bred shorthairs for a number of years, and worked with some GWPs, Vizlas and Brittanies. All my dogs were NAVHDA tested and so were most of the pups I sold. (A NAVHDA membership was paid for with each pup out of the $$$ I received.)
"Most" bird dogs will require a lot of attention and exercise, and I heartily recommend that they live in the house with you. That is the best training and bonding you can give them. Then, get them exposed to lots of birds. There is nothing like seeing a dog running all out and going into point mid-stride. Good luck!
"Most" bird dogs will require a lot of attention and exercise, and I heartily recommend that they live in the house with you. That is the best training and bonding you can give them. Then, get them exposed to lots of birds. There is nothing like seeing a dog running all out and going into point mid-stride.
Good luck!Cali-
My wife and I just bought a house in Aug. Though the yard is not huge, it is fenced in. Plus, having the committment of exercising the dog will help me get into shape! I'm relatively patient, especially with dogs. I helped put myself through college by raising mini pins. A little yappy house dog will teach a person patience. My wife and I are relatively laid back people, not too much excitement outside of the bedroom that is! Beings the dog will be in the house, I'd prefer not to have a macho dog.
You must me psychic (or is that psycho?) as I was gonna ask about the difference between getting a dog from an NAVHDA breeder or just one from the paper? Also, we already have a house dog, how do many of these breeds do around other dogs? Thank you guys for all the insite and help. I'm not gonna rush this, as I want to do it right and am not looking to get the dog until summer to give ME time to get ready and more knowledgable.
My wife and I just bought a house in Aug. Though the yard is not huge, it is fenced in. Plus, having the committment of exercising the dog will help me get into shape! I'm relatively patient, especially with dogs. I helped put myself through college by raising mini pins. A little yappy house dog will teach a person patience. My wife and I are relatively laid back people, not too much excitement outside of the bedroom that is!
Beings the dog will be in the house, I'd prefer not to have a macho dog. You must me psychic (or is that psycho?
) as I was gonna ask about the difference between getting a dog from an NAVHDA breeder or just one from the paper? Also, we already have a house dog, how do many of these breeds do around other dogs? Thank you guys for all the insite and help. I'm not gonna rush this, as I want to do it right and am not looking to get the dog until summer to give ME time to get ready and more knowledgable.Ithaca 37
New member
1 pointer, I'd recommend getting ahold of Val out at the Ogden refuge and watching & helping him do some dog training for a NAVHDA test. They'll probably have one in the Spring. He can be telling you all about the benefits of dealing with reputable breeders. Stay away from the back yard breeders who claim they have great dogs and puppies but don't have any credentials to prove it!
Calif. Hunter
Active member
A lot of the whole point of NAVHDA, as you can read from Ithaca's post, is to promote good breeding among the various versatile breeds. They push testing pups for natural ability as well as trained dogs. They also look for effective hunting dogs as opposed to wide-running field trial dogs. My next dog will probably end up being a Brittany spaniel, as they are usually a "softer" dog, temperamentally, and a little smaller than most other versatile breeds. They do have longer hair which can shed.
By effective hunting dogs, I mean dogs that really want to please you, and are cooperative hunters rather than solo atheletes like field trialers. You want a dog that will check back in once in while, range out far enough but not too far, change directions when you do, etc. I think that a "NAVHDA bred" pup has the best chance of doing that, especially if it is repeat breeding of a successful previous match between sire and dam.
By effective hunting dogs, I mean dogs that really want to please you, and are cooperative hunters rather than solo atheletes like field trialers. You want a dog that will check back in once in while, range out far enough but not too far, change directions when you do, etc. I think that a "NAVHDA bred" pup has the best chance of doing that, especially if it is repeat breeding of a successful previous match between sire and dam.
Ithaca 37
New member
I was just visiting the Versatile Dogs site for the first time in a few months. They have some interesting topics going!
http://www.versatiledogs.com/
http://www.versatiledogs.com/
Ithaca 37
New member
That's what you usually have to pay for a dog from parents that have proven their hunting ability in a series of tests. Sometimes you can find NAVHDA dogs for less. Sometimes you can get a dog from the pound that will turn into a good hunter. It all comes down to how much you're willing to pay to increase your odds of getting a good dog. Look at it this way---how much a year is it going to cost you if the dog lives 12 years?
You really should spend some time around as many knowledgeable hunting dog people as you can before making such a big decision about what to get and what to pay. You should try to hunt over a few dogs, too. Any chance you can get to Boise before January? Even if you don't want to buy a bird license you can walk along with me and watch some hunting.
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 12-03-2002 22:14: Message edited by: Ithaca 37 ]</font>
You really should spend some time around as many knowledgeable hunting dog people as you can before making such a big decision about what to get and what to pay. You should try to hunt over a few dogs, too. Any chance you can get to Boise before January? Even if you don't want to buy a bird license you can walk along with me and watch some hunting.
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 12-03-2002 22:14: Message edited by: Ithaca 37 ]</font>
I may have to take you up on that! There's a few here I'm going to try to go out with and watch their GSPs. I didn't realize how much was involved in a bird dog. I'm extending my time table, so I can be a bit higher on the learning curve when I take the plunge.
You're right, $600 is nothing over 10-12years, plus I'll have more than a student job soon so it won't seem like that much.
You're right, $600 is nothing over 10-12years, plus I'll have more than a student job soon so it won't seem like that much.
Calif. Hunter
Active member
$600 seems high to me, but I haven't been selling pups for over 10 years now. Back then, I got $250 for GSP pups from proven Utility-tested parents and repeat breedings where the previous pups had been Natural Ability tested. Sometimes the more "exotic" breeds like Pudelpointers, Griffons, Vizlas, etc. go for more than "normal" Shorthairs.
Carnivore
New member
You're still in the right ballpark CH,
Shorthairs will normally go for $250-$500 depending on bloodline. Like you said, it's the fancy named one's that get pricey but that sure don't make them better hunters.
It's just like paying more for brand names.
I've hunted with so called 'high dollar' champions and I was'nt impresssed at all. I've also hunted with a well trained half breed that was the best dog I've hunted behind. It's all in the handling and training. I'm not sure if my dog is full blooded, I rescued her from an abusive home, but she has a great nose on her and points like the best of them. She don't have faults, I do for not spending more time on training, be we still have a great time in the field.
Find a breeder, and ask if the parents hunt. If so have them take you out and watch/hunt with him. If he's a man of his words, he should'nt mind showing of his dogs.
Shorthairs will normally go for $250-$500 depending on bloodline. Like you said, it's the fancy named one's that get pricey but that sure don't make them better hunters.
It's just like paying more for brand names.
I've hunted with so called 'high dollar' champions and I was'nt impresssed at all. I've also hunted with a well trained half breed that was the best dog I've hunted behind. It's all in the handling and training. I'm not sure if my dog is full blooded, I rescued her from an abusive home, but she has a great nose on her and points like the best of them. She don't have faults, I do for not spending more time on training, be we still have a great time in the field.
Find a breeder, and ask if the parents hunt. If so have them take you out and watch/hunt with him. If he's a man of his words, he should'nt mind showing of his dogs.
Ithaca 37
New member
If you have two parents that have proven hunting ability, intelligence, and willingness to cooperate you have a better chance of having those traits in the pups. That's what testing or field trialing can show.
Other than that, if you just take some guy's word for it that he has a great dog and his hunting buddy's dog he bred it to is a great dog, too, you're taking your chances.
You have to decide what you want in a dog and then look for those kinds of parents. Not everybody should have a dog that has field trial ability---it might not match his hunting style. That's why I favor the NAVHDA testing for my style of hunting.
All you're doing when you do all that research is learning about dogs, breeders, hunting styles, and increasing your chance of getting a good pup, but there's no guarentee. Most dogs with any ability can be turned into a decent hunter if you spend lots of time at it. And I mean LOTS. Hundreds of hours of training and exposure to birds over the first two years.
Other than that, if you just take some guy's word for it that he has a great dog and his hunting buddy's dog he bred it to is a great dog, too, you're taking your chances.
You have to decide what you want in a dog and then look for those kinds of parents. Not everybody should have a dog that has field trial ability---it might not match his hunting style. That's why I favor the NAVHDA testing for my style of hunting.
All you're doing when you do all that research is learning about dogs, breeders, hunting styles, and increasing your chance of getting a good pup, but there's no guarentee. Most dogs with any ability can be turned into a decent hunter if you spend lots of time at it. And I mean LOTS. Hundreds of hours of training and exposure to birds over the first two years.
Carnivore
New member
I think it shows you can add $250-$500 to the price of a dog for having a certification, but it wont gauruntee your dog will be a good hunter.
I believe the dogs upbringing(training) will determine it's ability in the field. But hey, if people want to keep spending big dollars for proven(?)dogs, more power to them. But int he past 2 months, I've seen three dogs(all having high pedigrees/certifications) end up being complete busts. The best one was a big dollar Vizla. The owner got the dog back from the trainer and now he's gun shy, of course they did'nt know if he was gun shy before hand. The dog does'nt have a clue whats going on in the field even after three months at a pro trainer.
1st I would question the trainer, and than fault the owners for not spending the quality time with their dog. I know the dogs first year in the field is for his learning purposes only; to get him into as many birds as possible. But it does'nt change the fact that know they're stuck with a dog they can't use, a so-called proven dog.
I believe the dogs upbringing(training) will determine it's ability in the field. But hey, if people want to keep spending big dollars for proven(?)dogs, more power to them. But int he past 2 months, I've seen three dogs(all having high pedigrees/certifications) end up being complete busts. The best one was a big dollar Vizla. The owner got the dog back from the trainer and now he's gun shy, of course they did'nt know if he was gun shy before hand. The dog does'nt have a clue whats going on in the field even after three months at a pro trainer.
1st I would question the trainer, and than fault the owners for not spending the quality time with their dog. I know the dogs first year in the field is for his learning purposes only; to get him into as many birds as possible. But it does'nt change the fact that know they're stuck with a dog they can't use, a so-called proven dog.
Ithaca 37
New member
You mean they never shot a gun around the dog before they sent it to a trainer?! They should have been teaching the dog not to be gun shy long before it went to a trainer.
Not all dogs have good enough noses to be good hunters, no matter how much time they spend in the field. Ability to smell is an inherited trait. Field trials and tests weed out dogs that don't have a good sense of smell. They weed out dogs without other desirable traits, too. They weed out dogs that don't have the intelligence to go thru advanced training. They weed out dogs that don't have the natural drive needed to be the best hunters. They weed out dogs that don't like to retrieve. They weed out dogs that don't like water. They weed out dogs that don't have athletic ability. That's what field trials and tests are for---to find out which dogs are the best ones to breed.
Take a dog from proven parents and a dog from unproven parents and put the same amount of training and field time into them both. Which one has a better chance of being the best of the two?
Many hunters have never even seen a good hunting dog, by field trial or test standards. A lot of it comes down to what your definition of "good" is.
I've seen many guys who claim they have a great dog go to a test or a field trial and be amazed at what they see dogs there doing. They had no idea what a good dog was! All they really knew was that their dog found more birds than they could have without it.
And everybody loves their dog, so unbiased opinions are hard to come by. Test and field trial judges try to give educated opinions of dogs.
Any dog will eventually flush a bird if it runs around and sniffs enough bushes.
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 12-05-2002 02:11: Message edited by: Ithaca 37 ]</font>
Not all dogs have good enough noses to be good hunters, no matter how much time they spend in the field. Ability to smell is an inherited trait. Field trials and tests weed out dogs that don't have a good sense of smell. They weed out dogs without other desirable traits, too. They weed out dogs that don't have the intelligence to go thru advanced training. They weed out dogs that don't have the natural drive needed to be the best hunters. They weed out dogs that don't like to retrieve. They weed out dogs that don't like water. They weed out dogs that don't have athletic ability. That's what field trials and tests are for---to find out which dogs are the best ones to breed.
Take a dog from proven parents and a dog from unproven parents and put the same amount of training and field time into them both. Which one has a better chance of being the best of the two?
Many hunters have never even seen a good hunting dog, by field trial or test standards. A lot of it comes down to what your definition of "good" is.
I've seen many guys who claim they have a great dog go to a test or a field trial and be amazed at what they see dogs there doing. They had no idea what a good dog was! All they really knew was that their dog found more birds than they could have without it.
And everybody loves their dog, so unbiased opinions are hard to come by. Test and field trial judges try to give educated opinions of dogs.
Any dog will eventually flush a bird if it runs around and sniffs enough bushes.
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 12-05-2002 02:11: Message edited by: Ithaca 37 ]</font>
Carnivore
New member
Damn Ith,
You're up pretty late were'nt you. Having a problem sleeping old man!
You're up pretty late were'nt you. Having a problem sleeping old man!
Wally Dog
Well-known member
No matter what the breed, (I happen to run shorthairs), there is absolutely no substitute for blood. It all begins with good genetics, just like humans.
Ithaca 37
New member
Wally, Idaho Ron, who posts here often (look at his topic on his combo bird hunt in this section) is looking for a GSP puppy. He'd like to get one real early in 2003. I've put the word out to the Idaho GSP club, but no results yet. If you can help him please email him.
Wally Dog
Well-known member
37,
I'm starting to look as well as my "young dog" is 8 coming 9. I need to run down those who I sold pups from my old bitch to see if they have anything in the works. I can tell you right now mine will be a white with liver shorthair with a strong "whitesmoke" background. I'll keep you advised of my findings.
WD
I'm starting to look as well as my "young dog" is 8 coming 9. I need to run down those who I sold pups from my old bitch to see if they have anything in the works. I can tell you right now mine will be a white with liver shorthair with a strong "whitesmoke" background. I'll keep you advised of my findings.
WD
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