West coast salmon recovery

[Irrelevant]

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/faf.12514

I wanted to throw this out there and see what people think about this new study. The conclusion is that while we can readily identify part of the freshwater ecosystem that salmon use that are in poor condition, we can't show that improving them actually leads to salmon restoration. Salmon (this study was looking at chinook) are declining everywhere, including basins with relatively pristine habitat. The millions upon millions spent to, say, place logs in rivers, isn't going to offset to worsening ocean conditions. The real take away for me was that we need to spend more effort evaluating things that actually restore salmon populations and not things that we think restore salmon, or that just feel good.

 

[Bambistew]

A start to save king salmon would be to stop killing them in the ocean by the 10s of thousands and dumping them overboard as by-catch. As you eluded to, we can have the best habitat and no fish in it... The trawl fishery in the Bering Sea kills more salmon dumps them overboard, than are harvested in Alaska by other means. Same goes for many other species. Its sickening... They dump nearly and equal value of fish over as they keep. All so we can eat those cheap McFish sandwiches.

 

[Rainer]

I know in BC the fish farms are doing a tremendous damage to the Coho and Sockeye fisheries. The amount of sea lice the congregates around these farms is killing the fry that are coming out of these rivers. Almost all of the indigenous tribes on the BC coast have tried to remove the farms from their waters but the Federal Government ignores them and allows it to continue. I fear native Salmon and Steelhead will become extinct in under a decade

 

[Bambistew]

I know in BC the fish farms are doing a tremendous damage to the Coho and Sockeye fisheries. The amount of sea lice the congregates around these farms is killing the fry that are coming out of these rivers. Almost all of the indigenous tribes on the BC coast have tried to remove the farms from their waters but the Federal Government ignores them and allows it to continue. I fear native Salmon and Steelhead will become extinct in under a decade

I hadn't heard about that being an issue. Interesting.

Between the US/Canada/Russia/Asia, we are artificially inflating pink and chum salmon populations 2x or more over natural levels. This has an effect on the ocean as well.

 

[Irrelevant]

I know in BC the fish farms are doing a tremendous damage to the Coho and Sockeye fisheries. The amount of sea lice the congregates around these farms is killing the fry that are coming out of these rivers. Almost all of the indigenous tribes on the BC coast have tried to remove the farms from their waters but the Federal Government ignores them and allows it to continue. I fear native Salmon and Steelhead will become extinct in under a decade

Here in WA banded fish farms with artificial species after the large Atlantic salmon release last year. So they switched to farming "steelhead". I hope we can get all open ocean farming banned from Puget sound soon.

A start to save king salmon would be to stop killing them in the ocean by the 10s of thousands and dumping them overboard as by-catch. As you eluded to, we can have the best habitat and no fish in it... The trawl fishery in the Bering Sea kills more salmon dumps them overboard, than are harvested in Alaska by other means. Same goes for many other species. Its sickening... They dump nearly and equal value of fish over as they keep. All so we can eat those cheap McFish sandwiches.

Do you know of any reports on bycatch? I knew it was a thing but not nearly to the degree you describe. I've advocated for a ban on salmon fishing entirely for many years. I love salmon more than I love catching salmon, and I LOVE catching salmon.

 

[mountainhawks]

The threats to wild salmon/steelhead populations are numerous and broad:
Declining ocean conditions
Commercial bycatch
Open ocean farming
Exploding populations of sea lions
Governors in western states ordering hatcheries to grow chinook to "feed" killer whales (that are not in jeopardy anyway)
Dams
Changing weather patterns in the short term
Unchecked tribal practices

It's hard not to be a pessimist when talking about anadromous fish runs.

 

[Irrelevant]

Alaska harvests BC salmon while BC fishers tied to dock | Watershed Watch Salmon Society

As salmon runs in BC hit record lows, Alaskan fisheries are catching a growing share of salmon bound for B.C. rivers, according to a new technical report.

watershedwatch.ca

I anticipate this issue is going to heat up pretty dramatically in the coming years. BC (and by default WA/OR/CA) vs AK

 

[Hydrophilic]

Alaska harvests BC salmon while BC fishers tied to dock | Watershed Watch Salmon Society

As salmon runs in BC hit record lows, Alaskan fisheries are catching a growing share of salmon bound for B.C. rivers, according to a new technical report.

watershedwatch.ca

I anticipate this issue is going to heat up pretty dramatically in the coming years. BC (and by default WA/OR/CA) vs AK

It's been heating up dramatically since March '20! SE Alaska has been "low holing" PNW salmon for decades. Hard to rebuild runs when you don't know how much of the run is being harvested.

WFC filed suit against NOAA, Dept of Commerce, etc and it's picked up traction. U.S. Magistrate Judge Michelle Peterson issued a report and recommendation finding NOAA is violating the ESA (Southern Resident Orcas). The district judge will rule sometime this year.

Federal Court Finds NOAA’s Harvest Mitigation Proposal Violated Endangered Species Act Protections for Wild Chinook and Southern Resident Killer Whales – Wild Fish Conservancy Northwest

A groundbreaking new ruling from the federal court in Seattle is calling into question the continuation of decades of unsustainable commercial salmon harvest in Southeast Alaska.

wildfishconservancy.org

 

[Salmonchaser]

No question about it the trawl fishery has an impact. IT was recognizable 15 years ago. The way the industry is set up, This last I checked, the observers who are to give us an overview of the by catch are only on the ships 1/2 time. with observers aboard they fish low salmon areas, no observer, they fish different areas. Go figure.
Ive been bitching about the restoration projects and their lack of success for years, normally when we talk about dams. I do like the restoration projects in and of themselves to protect water sheds, really interested in some of the dams coming down, but until we get a handle on the trawl fishery in the bering sea, kings are really going to be in trouble.
This is the last king I’ll guide too, the last one I’ll fish for. I caught my first when I was six on the Kenai river. I am 66 and have fished them tirelessly my entire life. I will fish for those dang Sockeye and silvers but mostly on a C&R basis. I hope in the time I have left some meaningful action occurs and we start seeing rebounds.

 

[Irrelevant]

I hope in the time I have left some meaningful action occurs and we start seeing rebounds.

I'm 30 years younger and I have the same hope.

 

[Hydrophilic]

I like what Neffa mentioned about changing the way we fish for salmon. Here a few random thoughts I have, which are my opinions not meant to agitate those with opposing views.

Maximum sustained yield is a poor commercial harvest strategy which really isn’t doing anything for salmon conservation. In reality, harvest needs to be focused on a ‘place based’ model - local harvest on local rivers by local people…as it has been done successfully for thousands of years. In less than 200 years our system has virtually destroyed salmon (harvest, habitat, hydropower, hatcheries, warming waters).

It’s a crime the way Salmon are being harvested commercially and the dept of commerce has no business continuing to commodify a rapidly declining resource that has immense cultural value. Without salmon, the Pacific Northwest is just another place.

I would suggest limiting all harvest to recreational anglers only (and obviously tribes). This can also be problematic as a big chunk of the rec anglers are only focused on hatchery fish, which is a broken relationship with the resource. Why take care of rivers if we can just bypass that responsibility and raise salmon like cows with tax payer dollars?

A reciprocal relationship is doing something for the resource that does something for you. That is what can make a consumptive based relationship so effective.

Consumptive elk hunters have skin in the game. Most hunters, and the elk, need large expanses of land. Therefore hunters are more likely to advocate for something meaningful that actually helps the resource - public land, habitat, etc. This is a reciprocal relationship.

A large segment of consumptive salmon anglers spend most of their time advocating for more hatchery to harvest while systematically rallying to the defense of poorly regulated extraction industries and environmental deregulation platforms. They continue to chant the mantra “there are no wild fish left and the habitat is too far gone, let’s increase hatchery propagation”. It’s a broken relationship that ignores where salmon come from.

By in large, with a few exceptions, the tribes, environmental groups and volunteers such as TU, WFC, NFS, Wild Salmon Center, CBD, Water watch, Wetlands Conservancy, etc, and countless watershed councils are the ones working for better Salmon conditions that benefit the fish. Some use hatchery fish for conservation purposes, such as re-establishing runs, but have a goal of transitioning to a naturally sustaining run. As it should be, aside from select rivers too far degraded. The tribes understandably utilize hatcheries for cultural reasons.

Ultimately, I would also support shutting down certain fisheries until we learn how to predictably harvest salmon. With all the treaties and what not it’s going to take a mega emergency for anything to change and that’s sad.

 

[Trial153]

What about going ultra conservative and close all fishing for kings down for say a 5 year period and see what happens? Both recreational and commercial?

 

[Irrelevant]

Without salmon, the Pacific Northwest is just another place.

100% agree.

I would suggest limiting all harvest to recreational anglers only (and obviously tribes).

100%, at least in the lower 48. I could see terminal commercial fisheries still occuring, like Bristol Bay.

A large segment of consumptive salmon anglers spend most of their time advocating for more hatchery to harvest while systematically rallying to the defense of poorly regulated extraction industries and environmental deregulation platforms. They continue to chant the mantra “there are no wild fish left and the habitat is too far gone, let’s increase hatchery propagation”. It’s a broken relationship that ignores where salmon come from.

I have not seen this. The biggest hatchery advocates I know are hatchery workers. Most fisherman I know think we're stuck in a broken system.

Ultimately, I would also support shutting down certain fisheries until we learn how to predictably harvest salmon.

I hope everyone comments as such: https://wdfw.wa.gov/fishing/management/north-falcon/public-input#ps-commercial

That was effectively the gist of my comments. I love salmon more than salmon fishing, if we need to stop fishing for them for a while, then I'm game.

 

[Akcabin]

What I found interesting is the commercial fishing industry proudly promotes their great product and rightfully so. And how many they catch and what value they have. Within the last 10 years breaking record numbers of fish caught.
It's know that salmon numbers are depleting at record paces. Habitat, ocean warming, acidification, invasive species, marine mammal protection act, waterfowl protection act, dueling governments.
I support our commercial fishers, sport and subsistence. Just that after every else only a small percentage is left to repopulate. Like 2-3%. Then they have to rear n make it back out to face the anslot.
Hey I'm not a biologist, just a guy who is into the outdoors so no expert.
In many rivers the sixe to weight comparisons markedly showed that outmigrating fry we exceptionally smaller in weight and size. Indicating to many biologists that less nutrients in the water for growth. Stunting the fry and reduce the chances that it will survive to return and multiply. Fish dept did fish wheel surveys around the state for these studies. So should be available there.
I enjoy fishing and have done it my entire life. What's the problem ? A little too much of all the above.
So just when do these numbers all come together. Maybe it's happening.

 

[Trial153]

Salmon will mirror the passenger pigeon. Slow decline for many reasons until they crash.

For reasons we do not yet understand salmon depend on mass reproduction. We cant expect their continued existence when we significantly reduce (many reasons) the number of returning fish to reproduce.

 

[devon deer]

Don't forget, not just a West coast issue, the Atlantic Salmon population has crashed.
It's a combination of things, mainly over fishing, by high seas drift nets and estuary nets.
Off Scotland they have the same issue with Salmon farms, increased sea lice which kill the Salmon and Sea trout.

Take my river, there were 10 licence netsmen with 'grandfather rights', that means they will always be granted a licence to net the river during the main migratory run, once they give up the licence (usually by being bought out by conservation groups/government departments) it's gone forever, so far 7 have, the remaining never will.
(a river not so far away had their nets bought out with help in no small part by the great Orri Vigfusson)
A new project is under way to restore the spawning areas, over 4 years and £250k of lottery money, help from people like my fellow fishing club members we could make a difference.
We have identified barriers, done a lot of electro fishing and just started to tag the Salmon parr.
Salmon are rarely kept by recreational anglers.
One of the areas that I'm trying to resolve is predatory birds like the Gooseander, but they are a protected bird and we can't cull them!
So frustrating!

However, lets hope working together we can make a difference in the years to come.

Cheers

Richard

 

[Akcabin]

Yeah certainly a combination of issues. I would think that the best way to get more salmon may be to let more salmon get to their breeding grounds. And continue to improve the habitat. So they have the nutrients available to get started in life and be ready to hit the oceans. The ocean we can't do much about. We can have an impact on what happens in the river systems.
Global impacts such as global warming, acidification n such are going to do their thing. We can all help more. Pick up trash, buy a hunting fishing trapping license even if you don't do those things. Your wildlife department can get 3-1 match money to help our biologists get their jobs done as best they can. Auctions at outdoors groups events, go spend a couple bucks n have a great time with your family.
You get the drift. I don't have all the answers. Nobody does, but I know I want my kids n grandkids n more to be able to do n enjoy all that I have been so blessed to do.
Remember take one make one

 

[Irrelevant]

I really push back on the idea of freshwater habitat being a limiting factor for west coast salmon. It just doesn't pass the smell test.

Why are the great lakes salmon stocks doing so much better?


Why are pristine watersheds on the OP still just a fraction of their former selves.

 

[Akcabin]

Out state biologists did studies on the size and strength of outmigrating smolt showing that they were not growing up like they should be. 25% smaller. Suggesting that there isn't enough nutrients in the water.
I guess I would have push back in believing that the if habitats where they are born and start out there lives don't have the food and proper growing conditions such as water temperature or levels. When they migrate and are runts they are going to have a tougher time surviving than an outmigrating smolt of proper size.
And mostly because we can probably do more to help on land. But again just part of the problem. And just my thoughts. And I am also very concerned about the future of our salmon fisheries to survive, we're all in this together

 

[mdhunter]

In Maryland the rockfish or striped bass were so overfished they closed the season for four years in the 1980's. The fish had an mazing comeback as a result.

Overfishing is now again stressing the population so we might unfortunately be heading back in that direction. Man is a very efficient predator when left unregulated...